Becoming A Judge

[Dobecrazy]

I want to one day become a Group 6 Judge.

I get the "registred as a member of a canine body for 10 years" prerequisite BUT I am STUMPED as to why on earth I need to breed x amount of litters and have x amount of champions to qualify.

No worries ANKC, I will just contribute to the millions of dogs that get put down every year when I all I want to do is judge the correctness of dogs and stop people breeding to the latest craze instead of their breed standard. I dont see WHY I have to become a breeder to do that.

Can someone help explain to me why this ridiculous prerequisite is in place?

[conztruct]

I want to one day become a Group 6 Judge.

I get the "registred as a member of a canine body for 10 years" prerequisite BUT I am STUMPED as to why on earth I need to breed x amount of litters and have x amount of champions to qualify.

No worries ANKC, I will just contribute to the millions of dogs that get put down every year when I all I want to do is judge the correctness of dogs and stop people breeding to the latest craze instead of their breed standard. I dont see WHY I have to become a breeder to do that.

Can someone help explain to me why this ridiculous prerequisite is in place?

I tend to agree with your thoughts except I don't get the registered member prerequisite either.

Does length of time in an organisation or number of litters bred and champions mean that someone has an eye for a dog and the knowledge and ability to judge them? Maybe in a perfect world but the reality is that people can be members for years, breed any number of litters (good or bad) and scrape a CH title with the progeny to qualify all without providing any guarantee that they know their breed or others.

I'm kind of in the same position, I am good friends with several breeders who in my opinion are creating quality lines. I show their dogs and have achieved good success with them. The reality is though, if I wanted to fast-track myself to being a judge I would have started breeding by now with mediocre dogs. Instead, I have probably learnt more from my mentors and seeing what they have produced that I ever would have on my own. They have really helped me to appreciate many aspects of my breed that I never would have considered no matter how much net-surfing, breeding or research I had done myself.

I think the whole judges training scheme in Qld needs to be looked at - not because I necessarily think it's bad, I just think it could be better and more helpful to aspiring judges. Especially in the north there is limited mentoring and trainee judges judge at open shows without anyone to critique their performance or offer advice, support and mentoring. I think that's unfortunate that the trainee judges don't get a lot of development activity out of their judging.

[Dobecrazy]

Good words. I also think some who breed, if their dogs win, if they are breeding their dogs incorrectly and not to the standard how are they going to judge other peoples dogs of that breed correctly?

As in, I am in Dobermanns, there is a HUGE fad right now with bowling ball chests. Everything about a Dobermann should be "moderate" but not according to some judges. In turn, these breeders keep breeding the "winning" dogs that are not correct. If these "breeders" go on to become judges they are going to probably go on their own "winning" standards instead of the correct standard. I am rambling a bit but hopefully you get what I mean.

It's sad to think how many mediocre dogs are out there because of this ridiculous program..

[Rebanne]

Good words. I also think some who breed, if their dogs win, if they are breeding their dogs incorrectly and not to the standard how are they going to judge other peoples dogs of that breed correctly?

As in, I am in Dobermanns, there is a HUGE fad right now with bowling ball chests. Everything about a Dobermann should be "moderate" but not according to some judges. In turn, these breeders keep breeding the "winning" dogs that are not correct. If these "breeders" go on to become judges they are going to probably go on their own "winning" standards instead of the correct standard. I am rambling a bit but hopefully you get what I mean.

It's sad to think how many mediocre dogs are out there because of this ridiculous program..

Why don't you breed what you think are correct dogs then? Judges put up what they think best fits the standard. Just what you say you want to do; put up your version of what fits the standard best

[SwaY]

I get the "registred as a member of a canine body for 10 years" prerequisite BUT I am STUMPED as to why on earth I need to breed x amount of litters and have x amount of champions to qualify.

I know of someone who had never bred a litter (had helped whelp etc) and was accepted into the programme and is now a judge for one group and currently studying for their second.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I can't speak for your canine control, but IF during that 10 years you have handled a good number of dogs to their titles and publicly contributed to conformation shows in your area (eg on committees in actual working positions) and have mentors that are willing to speak for your experience in the breed and assistance with their breeding programs during that time, you may well be accepted without the litters under your prefix. You have to have done the yards tho', and it probably wouldn't help if the committee said "who??" when they looked at your paperwork. Put the paperwork in and see what they say.

Edited to say that I don't think saying that you've never bred a litter but want to be a judge to show others where their breeding is going wrong will be a winning strategy.

Edited September 5, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Waggy]

I feel you should have some background with dog breeding and exhibiting to really become a good judge. Many a time a have stood at ring side with so called experts who have never bred anything but still consider themselves breed experts. Sorry I don't agree you can be a true breed expert and thus judge with out some breeding background. My opinion anyway.

[SwaY]

Many judges will never breed a variety of dogs they are licenced to judge.

Do I think you need to have exhibited extensively to become a judge; yes, breed; no.

Breed experts are different to judges IMO...

There are many breed experts that will never judge and have never breed a litter; yet they have been around long enough to have seen it all and then some.

[Dobecrazy]

Because there are already people breeding the "correct" dog (and if we are talking about my breed, the Dobermann, there are definitely people doing it right), so why should I HAVE to do it? Breeding is hard work, its blood sweat and tears..why should I contribute to the tons of homeless dogs a year just to judge the correctness of a dog that I (by the time my 10 years is up, would have been showing the entire time and LEARNING about in the judging program)?

I will continue to show my dogs and title them and maybe in about 8 or so years they will have changed the prerequisites (or after the banning of docking and now lame oversized dogs, I wont want to own a Dobe any more, whichever comes first).

[RallyValley]

Because there are already people breeding the "correct" dog (and if we are talking about my breed, the Dobermann, there are definitely people doing it right), so why should I HAVE to do it? Breeding is hard work, its blood sweat and tears..why should I contribute to the tons of homeless dogs a year just to judge the correctness of a dog that I (by the time my 10 years is up, would have been showing the entire time and LEARNING about in the judging program)?

I will continue to show my dogs and title them and maybe in about 8 or so years they will have changed the prerequisites (or after the banning of docking and now lame oversized dogs, I wont want to own a Dobe any more, whichever comes first).

Wow do that many well bred Dobes end up in rescue?!?!? For most breeds of dog there is a high demand for quality healthy dogs and you tend to find not many end up in rescue or contributing to BYB problems.

[Salukifan]

Good words. I also think some who breed, if their dogs win, if they are breeding their dogs incorrectly and not to the standard how are they going to judge other peoples dogs of that breed correctly?

As in, I am in Dobermanns, there is a HUGE fad right now with bowling ball chests. Everything about a Dobermann should be "moderate" but not according to some judges. In turn, these breeders keep breeding the "winning" dogs that are not correct. If these "breeders" go on to become judges they are going to probably go on their own "winning" standards instead of the correct standard. I am rambling a bit but hopefully you get what I mean.

It's sad to think how many mediocre dogs are out there because of this ridiculous program..

Starting off your judging license bid by slamming the current status of the breed isn't what I call a winning strategy. You'd probably already have folk who've noted your comments and how many folk are going to want you to go over their dogs now as you train for your licence???

I suggest you start practicing some diplomacy. We all have opinions on the status of our breeds but you need to be careful about how and where you share them.

I don't think owning two entire dogs and being able to breed them and raise litters necessarily gives you the knowledge needed to judge. But it sure gives you a perspective on how challenging it can be to breed to the standard.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Rebanne]

Because there are already people breeding the "correct" dog (and if we are talking about my breed, the Dobermann, there are definitely people doing it right), so why should I HAVE to do it? Breeding is hard work, its blood sweat and tears..why should I contribute to the tons of homeless dogs a year just to judge the correctness of a dog that I (by the time my 10 years is up, would have been showing the entire time and LEARNING about in the judging program)?

I will continue to show my dogs and title them and maybe in about 8 or so years they will have changed the prerequisites (or after the banning of docking and now lame oversized dogs, I wont want to own a Dobe any more, whichever comes first).

:rofl:

Edited September 5, 2012 by Rebanne

[Dogsfevr]

I am very confident in her, have been studying for years and when my last show bitches bite went wrong I studied even harder and waited so long for this litter. I have a friend that would show her but she only goes to about 3 shows a year (distance) another friend has a minor puppy bitch this year too so shes out. I am confident in her ability to beat other dogs and I am the most critical judge of her. I went in myself the other week and hated it. I'm not interested in showing at all but I want my girl to title or at least try to title her (or another bitch if she is not worthy or healthy at adulthood) before I consider any future breeding plans as ultimately, I want to create the ultimate American dobe and unfortunately there is noone in Australia breeding the type of dobe I like, the type of dobe that conforms, in my eyes, best to the standard (she is from NZ). Any way I admire people that do it themselves I just wish there were professional handlers.. what about if people cant run or are injured? is it just who you know? She definetely wouldnt embaress anyone thats for sure, the only thing embaressing about her is me... and it sucks.

So why would you want to be a judge if your not interested in showing ??

You want to create the Ultimate American Dobe so as a judge which standard would you judge by??

The Kennel club which Austrlain uses or the AKC

Edited September 6, 2012 by showdog

[espinay2]

I want to one day become a Group 6 Judge.

I get the "registred as a member of a canine body for 10 years" prerequisite BUT I am STUMPED as to why on earth I need to breed x amount of litters and have x amount of champions to qualify.

No worries ANKC, I will just contribute to the millions of dogs that get put down every year when I all I want to do is judge the correctness of dogs and stop people breeding to the latest craze instead of their breed standard. I dont see WHY I have to become a breeder to do that.

Can someone help explain to me why this ridiculous prerequisite is in place?

You are judging breeding stock.

By being a breeder yourself you are aware of the process and what is involved in CREATING breeding stock and some of the finer points involved in doing that (I am not talking mechanics as such but the genetics of selection etc).

By breeding champions you have theoretically been in the show ring long enough to know the process and to know the ins and outs of the show ring, and to produce dogs that have stood up to the scrutiny of your peers.

If you want to be a judge, your work must first be judged.

Not a perfect system (no system ever is) but IMO it makes perfect sense.

And BTW, judges who blow off about how bad everyones dogs are before they even get their hands on them, don't get entries.

[Miranda]

Because there are already people breeding the "correct" dog (and if we are talking about my breed, the Dobermann, there are definitely people doing it right), so why should I HAVE to do it? Breeding is hard work, its blood sweat and tears..why should I contribute to the tons of homeless dogs a year just to judge the correctness of a dog that I (by the time my 10 years is up, would have been showing the entire time and LEARNING about in the judging program)?

I will continue to show my dogs and title them and maybe in about 8 or so years they will have changed the prerequisites (or after the banning of docking and now lame oversized dogs, I wont want to own a Dobe any more, whichever comes first).

If you are so concerned about the state of the breed the best way to improve matters is to breed, produce healthy dogs of correct type and temperament and then get them into the show ring so that current judges can see what a well bred Dobermann should look like. Or is that too hard, takes too much blood sweat and tears?

How long have you actually been in the breed? Not very long judging by your posts and your attitude.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Miranda

[Rebanne]

I would love to know how to get someone to handle my dog.. I'm new to it all (have dobes) my other dobe friends all handle their own dogs mainly in the same classes so cant take my girl.. I'm terrible and I'd rather not waste show entry fees showing her myself because it makes her look bad. Ive practised but I still must look like "new meat" and I honestly just want my girl to be seen in the best light possible. I would have no trouble paying a handler but its just finding one that is the trouble? any suggestions? I have an add on dogzonline but alas, no interest

[oakway]

Because there are already people breeding the "correct" dog (and if we are talking about my breed, the Dobermann, there are definitely people doing it right), so why should I HAVE to do it? Breeding is hard work, its blood sweat and tears..why should I contribute to the tons of homeless dogs a year just to judge the correctness of a dog that I (by the time my 10 years is up, would have been showing the entire time and LEARNING about in the judging program)?

I will continue to show my dogs and title them and maybe in about 8 or so years they will have changed the prerequisites (or after the banning of docking and now lame oversized dogs, I wont want to own a Dobe any more, whichever comes first).

If you are so concerned about the state of the breed the best way to improve matters is to breed, produce healthy dogs of correct type and temperament and then get them into the show ring so that current judges can see what a well bred Dobermann should look like. Or is that too hard, takes too much blood sweat and tears?

How long have you actually been in the breed? Not very long judging by your posts and your attitude.

+1

[SparkyTansy]

To be honest I don't think there are enough pre-requisites to become a judge, but the bare minimum required now is better than nothing at all, or you know, the opinions of someone in the breed for five minutes, not interested at all in what a breeding program is or the difficulty in actually getting there, but yet is ready and willing to criticise those who do.

[minimax]

I would love to know how to get someone to handle my dog.. I'm new to it all (have dobes) my other dobe friends all handle their own dogs mainly in the same classes so cant take my girl.. I'm terrible and I'd rather not waste show entry fees showing her myself because it makes her look bad. Ive practised but I still must look like "new meat" and I honestly just want my girl to be seen in the best light possible. I would have no trouble paying a handler but its just finding one that is the trouble? any suggestions? I have an add on dogzonline but alas, no interest

Sounds like the perfect candidate to become a judge!

(and I mean that sarcasticly, it wasn't a put-down of judges)

[Dobecrazy]

Iv'e "been in the breed" for about 6 years and by "being in the breed" I mean owning these dogs. Only attending shows for 2 and never actually getting in the ring myself. I am being open and honest and the only thing I am trying to do is understand the judging system.

Thats so lovely of you minimax, seriously grow up!

I do not think that breeding would help someone to judge I have no idea why there is a perception that it would? Its not that I do not want to waste blood sweat tears or money and its not that I dont care enough to want to improve the breed its merely a statement of HOW breeding would make you a better judge?

To judge you must first be judged.. well if you exhibit for the required 10 years havent you been to enough shows to have been judged and to have watched judging? I may have worded my previous posts the wrong way.

I am not criticising breeders when did I ever state that? you are all getting way to defensive, I admire breeders for doing what they do but I do not understand why you must breed to judge (for the 100th time).

And hey yeah I havent been in the breed long but the attitude at shows is one reason young people come and go, I am only 23 I have years and years to learn and I want to learn and yet youre so quick to judge my character. I dont have a bad attitude at all please point out where I have been rude or not open to suggestions?

No wonder the dog show world is literally (going to the dogs) bunch of old ladies doing their bitching all weekend instead of mentoring young people that want to get involved (and yes I have great mentors).

Thanks to those of you that made valid points.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Dobecrazy