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Domandal

My Lab Bit Me.

159 posts in this topic

I hope that professional behavioural assistance isn't too far away.

You know I think the best thing people could do to advise the OP is to remove the word "Labrador" from any advice or explanation of this behaviour. It's a dog. It's displaying aggression towards its owner. Breed should not be factored in here.

The dog needs a vet check and for someone who understands aggression to come to the house to observe what's going on. Any advice not based on direct observation is uninformed at best and downright dangerous at worst.

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Aidan3   

Sounds good, Domandal :thumbsup: If Layla will recall in the home, that's a good way to get her off the bed. Obviously you still need to address the fact that she bit, and so seeking advice is a good move.

One trick for getting rid of the food is to reinforce, as someone else put it earlier "average or better" responses. Also, don't have the food in your hand. You may need to "fade" it out of the picture gradually at first (let her know you've got it, then keep it hidden in your hand on the next few reps). Surprise her every now and then when she does something easy, produce a treat that she doesn't know you have.

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Domandal   

Sounds good, Domandal :thumbsup: If Layla will recall in the home, that's a good way to get her off the bed. Obviously you still need to address the fact that she bit, and so seeking advice is a good move.

One trick for getting rid of the food is to reinforce, as someone else put it earlier "average or better" responses. Also, don't have the food in your hand. You may need to "fade" it out of the picture gradually at first (let her know you've got it, then keep it hidden in your hand on the next few reps). Surprise her every now and then when she does something easy, produce a treat that she doesn't know you have.

Will definitely give that a go. :thumbsup:

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tdierikx   

Good on you Domandal... you are doing all the right things in response to the incident you had with Layla. Much kudos to you for that...

T.

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Domandal

Layla will go to her bed on command.

Layla will come when called whilst off lead in exercise areas and at home.

As Aidan said - there's two safe ways to get your dog off your bed.

All those cued behaviours are great - but you can increase the reliability of each by practicing with increasing levels of distraction. Obviously staying comfy on the bed might seem more rewarding to the dog than anything you might have to offer by way of a recall reward.

You don't want to back chain being naughty by not getting off the bed when asked, then recalling then getting a treat. That's tricky to get right. Maybe call once - and if that doesn't work - then try the lead. I suspect banning the dog from the bedroom, and keeping that door shut for a while might help prevent naughty behaviour. Ie she can only be up there if she will get off when you ask (give and geddit).

This is why getting help with the training might be a good idea.

You can increase the reliability of some of your cues by adding distractions, eg asking for sit and drop - with the treats nearby but not in your hand. Maybe cover a cup of treats with a heavy bowl so you can prevent theft initially, but build up to an open bowl.

A recall past a bowl of food - even a tub with the lid on to start with. More reliable recall.

and some games of "its yer choice" or "leave it" in front of the telly or when you're just chilling.

But if she learns that biting gets what she wants - this might not be safe - unless you can do give and geddit with food. Ie trade one item of food for another - or reliably have her give up toys. If she knows it's not the end of the world to give up food or toys that helps - that's why making a game of it works.

LizT

Agree Mrs. RB. As an example a frighten dog of lets say hypothetically "Rescue Background" might be hesitant in getting out of a crate, yes?

So, would you drag it out by the collar and risk getting bitten, or click on a lead and coax it out and reward it's positive response with a 'walk'. Same scenario with a client at the Groomers. I personally would take my chances with the lead.

I wouldn't force a recent rescue to do anything - except maybe a vet visit. I wouldn't drag any dog out of a crate by the collar especially one I didn't know well. I don't know if it would let me clip on a lead either.

The lead and drag - is for my dog who knows me - and the "off" command and the recall command (plenty of reinforcement) and the signs of going for a walk or a car trip - when she won't get off the couch. And I don't yank her off. I just apply gentle pressure until she gets up herself. I could do it without the collar but lifting her is a pain in the back. She hasn't ever tried to bite me either. It's just a technique. I can achieve "off the couch" by opening the fridge or freezer door - but that's her training me to reward her for not getting off it.

My dog is weird - she doesn't like going for a walk or a ride in the car, but she does like being at the off lead park and the beach and visiting friends. She's just starting to connect that going for a walk goes to the park - but she does get a bit anxious if we go somewhere else - like the letter box or other park.

She was once a frightened rescue puppy. But she was always keen to get out of the crate. These days she likes going in the crate almost as much as coming out of it.

I did some fancy heel work with my dog at the beach the other day and she got called a "circus dog" which I thought was pretty funny.

I also have the problem where she doesn't like to do anything unless food is on offer, and she knows when anybody is carrying food. There's no hiding it.

So it's easier to use it as a distracton ie you don't get the food unless you do average or better in the presense of food without trying to steal it. Sometimes I do leave it inside the house when we train outside so some of the training incorporates a longish out of sight sit stay while I go get it. And for some training - food is not the main motivator. Chasing me or toys is.

Edited by Mrs Rusty Bucket

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Domandal

On being mistook for female - this might be why:

fiancé - is the french term for the male of the betrothed partnership

fiancée - is the term for the female in the partnership

So when you said you had a fiancé - we thought you were the female in the partnership - though these days we could be wrong.

And even though you said you were doing 2 weeks on / off - which is more typical for men in the mining industry - there are a lot of women doing this too.

It's also way more common for a female dog to guard a male partner/owner, and a male dog to guard a female partner. Than a female dog to guard a female partner.

I admit I am female and I have a female dog who is a tad more enthusiastic about guarding me and mine than I am. Door to door salesmen excepted. I don't mind if she scares the crap out of them. But no bloke lives here for her to prefer instead of me.

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OSoSwift   

Also from a poll a while ago the very vast majority of DOLers were female :)

Great to see more men coming in to say hi, there are a few blokes among us

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I actually mistake men for women in real life. Although I once had a crush on a "guy" from CSI...I was very embarrassed when I was told he was in fact a she. So now I just assume everyone is a lady. :D

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Rozzie   

I actually mistake men for women in real life. Although I once had a crush on a "guy" from CSI...I was very embarrassed when I was told he was in fact a she. So now I just assume everyone is a lady. :D

Had your eyes tested lately?

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mantis   

Domandal

On being mistook for female - this might be why:

fiancé - is the french term for the male of the betrothed partnership

fiancée - is the term for the female in the partnership

So when you said you had a fiancé - we thought you were the female in the partnership - though these days we could be wrong.

And even though you said you were doing 2 weeks on / off - which is more typical for men in the mining industry - there are a lot of women doing this too.

It's also way more common for a female dog to guard a male partner/owner, and a male dog to guard a female partner. Than a female dog to guard a female partner.

I admit I am female and I have a female dog who is a tad more enthusiastic about guarding me and mine than I am. Door to door salesmen excepted. I don't mind if she scares the crap out of them. But no bloke lives here for her to prefer instead of me.

Kenny was a bugger with guarding me, if I had a male friend around & they dared to put an arm around me, or make any advances, he would quickly jump on the couch & push said male away from me. It can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how I felt about the male. :rofl:

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LizT   

M-sass,

Are you aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect? Your colossally inflated over-estimation of your own capabilities as a dog behaviour expert make you a text book example. Read about your affliction here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

Whatever happened to "Living and learning"...sure be guided by an "expert" but sheesh..what is an "Expert" these day anyway!

This thread is starting to sound like a "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight" story. "..and now we hear from our resident "expert".

Getting a trainer, behaviourist or whatever to help with a problem is always going to be a risk in itself. Depending on whose "fan Club" you belong to, what successes you have had with your own or close friends personal experiences etc. and how much weight you put in hearsay.

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Getting a trainer, behaviourist or whatever to help with a problem is always going to be a risk in itself. Depending on whose "fan Club" you belong to, what successes you have had with your own or close friends personal experiences etc. and how much weight you put in hearsay.

As a pet owner, I'd be safer putting my trust in someone with runs on the board dealing with dog aggression over my own interpretation of what's going on or the advice of people who've never met me or my dog.

Get it wrong and you're talking about the life of the dog and the safety of the owner. That's the magnitude of the risk.

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LizT   

Good on you Domandal... you are doing all the right things in response to the incident you had with Layla. Much kudos to you for that...

T.

:thumbsup: Yes. Sooner is better.

I wonder if your extended absences from the household due to the nature of your work has put you down a notch from Layla standing now she a "big Girl". :confused: Certainly part of the information the Behaviourist should/will ask I'm sure.

Let us know how it comes along. Good Luck Sir! :)

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LizT   

Getting a trainer, behaviourist or whatever to help with a problem is always going to be a risk in itself. Depending on whose "fan Club" you belong to, what successes you have had with your own or close friends personal experiences etc. and how much weight you put in hearsay.

As a pet owner, I'd be safer putting my trust in someone with runs on the board dealing with dog aggression over my own interpretation of what's going on or the advice of people who've never met me or my dog.

Get it wrong and you're talking about the life of the dog and the safety of the owner. That's the magnitude of the risk.

Couldn't agree more...my statement was more in response to the "which School/collar etc" debate that's running through this thread. Once apon a time a dog bite from the family pet had a singular, quick and final solution. :(

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Couldn't agree more...my statement was more in response to the "which School/collar etc" debate that's running through this thread. Once apon a time a dog bite from the family pet had a singular, quick and final solution. :(

No argument here. If people spent less time trying to take or retake the intellectual or moral high ground and focussed on the fact that advice is being sought by real people with real problems with their dogs, this place would be a lot more constructive.

Training methods, training tools... all generate the same debates and all participants need to realise that what people need are solutions that work for them and their dogs without safety or welfare issues being created.

If you've never faced such issues, had a problem dog or assisted someone else with a problem dog then perhaps you need to temper your philosophical viewpoint accordingly. :shrug:

I used to be very black and white on a whole bunch of dog issues. These days I'm far more pragmatic. The more I learn about dogs, the greyer many of these issues become. What works works - dogs don't read training manuals, research papers or popular websites. It pays to keep that in mind.

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Wobbly   

Whatever happened to "Living and learning"...sure be guided by an "expert" but sheesh..what is an "Expert" these day anyway!

This thread is starting to sound like a "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight" story. "..and now we hear from our resident "expert".

Getting a trainer, behaviourist or whatever to help with a problem is always going to be a risk in itself. Depending on whose "fan Club" you belong to, what successes you have had with your own or close friends personal experiences etc. and how much weight you put in hearsay.

An "expert" in this context is someone with a proven history of successfully rehabilitating large numbers of dogs displaying human aggression. Fan club is not a factor, proven track record is.

A dog that displays human aggression is at a real risk of losing it's life if the situation is not adequately addressed. Human directed aggression by pet dogs is not acceptable in today's society.

Do attempt to engage some semblance of critical thinking before posting.

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I actually mistake men for women in real life. Although I once had a crush on a "guy" from CSI...I was very embarrassed when I was told he was in fact a she. So now I just assume everyone is a lady. :D

Shoulda gone to Specsavers rofl1.gifrofl1.gif

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m-sass   

M-sass,

Are you aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect? Your colossally inflated over-estimation of your own capabilities as a dog behaviour expert make you a text book example. Read about your affliction here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

Unskilled at what :confused: I started training seriously in 1974 and won my first trial entered in 1977 OMG dog trained on a choker though :eek: Given that dog training isn't the rocket science many like to make out it is, in 38 years as I have experienced, you do tend to learn something about dog behaviour believe it or not :D

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m-sass   

Getting a trainer, behaviourist or whatever to help with a problem is always going to be a risk in itself. Depending on whose "fan Club" you belong to, what successes you have had with your own or close friends personal experiences etc. and how much weight you put in hearsay.

As a pet owner, I'd be safer putting my trust in someone with runs on the board dealing with dog aggression over my own interpretation of what's going on or the advice of people who've never met me or my dog.

Get it wrong and you're talking about the life of the dog and the safety of the owner. That's the magnitude of the risk.

Yeah......I have seen some "runs on the board" from "fan club" trainers and the performance of the dogs trained were absolute crap. Dog muzzled 20 meters away from other dogs is a "fixed' dog DA dog :eek: sure it's fixed, too far away from other dogs to be reactive with a muzzle on in case it gets too close and bites. Management structure for safe handling of a DA dog is fine, but thats not a "fixed" dog behaviour wise although 20 fan club members will tell you it's fixed and the trainer is awesome :rofl:

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mantis   

Couldn't agree more...my statement was more in response to the "which School/collar etc" debate that's running through this thread. Once apon a time a dog bite from the family pet had a singular, quick and final solution. :(

No argument here. If people spent less time trying to take or retake the intellectual or moral high ground and focussed on the fact that advice is being sought by real people with real problems with their dogs, this place would be a lot more constructive.

Training methods, training tools... all generate the same debates and all participants need to realise that what people need are solutions that work for them and their dogs without safety or welfare issues being created.

If you've never faced such issues, had a problem dog or assisted someone else with a problem dog then perhaps you need to temper your philosophical viewpoint accordingly. :shrug:

I used to be very black and white on a whole bunch of dog issues. These days I'm far more pragmatic. The more I learn about dogs, the greyer many of these issues become. What works works - dogs don't read training manuals, research papers or popular websites. It pays to keep that in mind.

Very well said. :thumbsup:

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