WDO Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Hi guys, Just a quick question.. Looking at pet quality pups only (toy size).. As an example lets say these pups are $2000 for pet quality.. If a pup has overshot / undershot jaw (.5 - 1 cm), and may possibly be slightly timid. (runs away from their own kids @ 9 weeks) Are they still worth the pet money, or should they be reduced slightly to reflect the small faults? Not trying to start a shit fight, just interested in opinions. Id be more than happy to purchase this pup at the advertised price if there were no faults. Opinions please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) I would be more concerned about the pup running away from the kids than the jaw. I think if you have concerns don't do it. Edited January 24, 2013 by Aussie3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Is the breed one which is prone to being timid (which many toy breeds can be)? If so then that wouldn't necessarily affect the price. However the purchaser would need to decide if they want to work through and with the timidity. A small misalignment of the jaw wouldn't make me drop pet price particularly as you can't always tell how the jaw will end up anyway. A 1cm misalignment of the jaw is a huge amount though and could affect the pups quality of life so I would be discussing it with my vet before I made any decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't buy a pup that showed timidness like that. Regardless of the rest of the quality of the pup (ETA: Or the price). Edited January 24, 2013 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) I would say pet quality doesn't mean there's something wrong with the puppy, just that he isn't show quality. It might not be an obvious fault rather incorrect colour or height etc for the show ring. The breeder has put the same effort into all the puppies whether they're keeping them or rehoming them, so why should they sell some for less? All the costs and effort behind the scene are still there. A puppy which shows extremes of temperament at a young age is probably not a good choice for anyone, and not be something to be sought to save a few dollars. Any puppies with a physical fault which may affect them later in life are probably not a good choice either, there may be expensive trips to the vet or even heart break down the track. I would be more interested in finding out if the breeder does all the appropriate health checks for that breed (if they require them), what type of socialisation they do with their puppies, do they show and how much support or help might they give you once you take your puppy home. Not all the breeders are the same so its worth doing your research. Good luck finding a new puppy and good on you for asking questions first Edited January 24, 2013 by Roova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I think I'd be a bit put out by a breeder offering a pup at a 'discount' for any reason at all. But to be honest, money doesn't and wouldn't come into the equation for me, when buying a pup, older dog or any dog, regardless of from rescue or a breeder. That's not to say I'd pay $10,000 or something, but I think I'd be rubbed the wrong way by someone selling one pup for a bit less because of any kind of imperfection. That said, I wouldn't buy a pup that I had concerns about, in terms of temperament etc, at that young age. It wouldn't be anything to do with money, but that if I were going to buy a purebred pup I'd want to be 100% sure about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I also wouldn't even get up to whatever the 'imperfection' is. A dog with an over-timid temperament is not a suitable choice when there are children in the family. Good on you for running the situation past people to get opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Has it been in situations with other kids? Maybe It's had a bad experience with the owners kids which is why it reacts that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I wouldn't buy a pup that showed timidness like that. Regardless of the rest of the quality of the pup (ETA: Or the price). +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I think I'd be a bit put out by a breeder offering a pup at a 'discount' for any reason at all. But to be honest, money doesn't and wouldn't come into the equation for me, when buying a pup, older dog or any dog, regardless of from rescue or a breeder. That's not to say I'd pay $10,000 or something, but I think I'd be rubbed the wrong way by someone selling one pup for a bit less because of any kind of imperfection. That said, I wouldn't buy a pup that I had concerns about, in terms of temperament etc, at that young age. It wouldn't be anything to do with money, but that if I were going to buy a purebred (any) pup I'd want to be 100% sure about it. I basically agree with Alkhe but as a breeder I would also be worried about your attitude wanting a discount for a preceived fault. Sorry but I would be wondering what else you would want down the track if things didn't turn out how you think they should. Same amount of effort and money is put into "pet" puppies as show potential ones by most breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 No discount in the world would ever tempt me to buy a timid pup. I own a fearful dog - I love her very much and she has improved greatly but it has taken years of work. Never again. If someone tells you these issues can be fixed by socialization they're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 And this sort of question is why I object to the stupid term pet quality, as if the dog is somehow lesser for being a pet. I'm with Aussie3. I'm more concerned about what the kids are doing than the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) I would be more concerned about the pup running away from the kids than the jaw. I think if you have concerns don't do it. Depends a bit on what the kids are doing!!! There's timidity and there's self preservation. Jaw issues are NOT simply cosmetic. They can lead to a lifetime of teeth and eating issues. That's one hell of a non-alignment in a tiny pup and unlikely to resolve. I'd not buy a timid pup or one with a bad bite and I don't care what price they were charging. Why set yourself up for heartache, I'd keep looking. Edited January 24, 2013 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDO Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks for your comments guys.. I appreciate your last comment Rebanne, whilst the purchase price of a puppy maybe chicken feed for a lot of people, its not to us.. Especially if this overbite becomes a problem and the temperament is unsuitable.. I need to see the pup in person to make a better judgement, but these comments were made to me by the breeder. Which has raised a few of these concerns. Dogs are not vehicles, objects or commodities - however if i buy something and its not up to the standard it should be, then its not worth the rrp. If you purchased a show dog unseen and you could not fault the pup via pictures but when it turned up it had the overbite and its temperment was not what it should be - what would you do? Pet quality is fine, charging a premium for not a premium pup is my gripe. Might be my old school values clouding my judgement :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDO Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 One child under 10.. just needs to walk into the room.. Pup does not run away all the time. breed of dog is very playful and great with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDO Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 I should clarify, im not asking for a discount.. If its not suitable i wont be buying the pup. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I don't know about the physical characteristics but did you observe how the kids interacted with the pups? Could there have been a reason for the pup's suspected timidity around the kids? What was the breeder's explanation for the behaviour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 1cm in a toy breed??? Even 0.5 is really something I would consider more serious than cosmetic. Is it the top jaw that's longer or the bottom? Sorry for the dumb question but sometimes people get the terms overbite and underbite confused. I too would eb worried about the timidity too - depending on how bad it was. They can go through fear periods, and sometimes have reason to fear a particular child. But it would warrant some serious questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Dogs are not vehicles, objects or commodities - however if i buy something and its not up to the standard it should be, then its not worth the rrp. If you purchased a show dog unseen and you could not fault the pup via pictures but when it turned up it had the overbite and its temperment was not what it should be - what would you do? Pet quality is fine, charging a premium for not a premium pup is my gripe. Might be my old school values clouding my judgement :-) If I bought any dog unseen, I would expect to have discussed all the finer points with the breeder and had a written understanding covering such a situation. You do realise that sh!t happens sometimes and any pup you buy could end up not being 100%? With it not being the fault of the buyer or seller? Just one of those things that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 If you purchased a show dog unseen and you could not fault the pup via pictures but when it turned up it had the overbite and its temperment was not what it should be - what would you do? Pet quality is fine, charging a premium for not a premium pup is my gripe. Might be my old school values clouding my judgement :-) The black & white BC in my avatar was purchased as a show potential dog and at 8 weeks he was and breeder friends commented he was worth showing. At 12 weeks he was unshowable and got worse as he grew - he is 2 inches over standard, nose is too long and his coat never really grew - but he has the best temperament and of my 3 dogs is the best to live with. Show potential is just that - potential not a guarantee. A pet pup costs as much to raise as a show potential pup. So long as a pup is healthy, good temperament and has no faults that will affect its quality then it is worth the usual price for a breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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