mini girl Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 My mini poodle for the last 10 days has not been herself at all first noticed it when she seemed reluctant to walk for far would sit down then she became very lethargic and wanted to stay in her bed most of the day. Took her to the vet who gave her anti inflammatory tablets But wanting to get to the bottom of it took her to an orthopaedic vet specialist who could not diagnose what it was - gave her a blood test - all normal gave her X-rays of both back legs no problems and said take her home and see how she goes for next two weeks Spent $500 and none the wiser. I then took her to a dog Chriopractor who said she had muscle injury in the leg I though was ok but he said the muscle was wasting and the what I though was the swollen leg was the good one He gave her an injection to help heal the muscle but not a lot of change yet have another appointment on Saturday morning . She has been off her food but slowly having a little bit and this morning drank some puppy milk have been giving her nutrigel, half an inner health capsule and after she enjoyed the puppy milk so much gave her 5 mls of calcium. Don't know what else to try for her has anyone had something similar and how long before they can start to improve. She just walks a few steps and then sits down on her bottom. She is only 4 and a half years old and a bit of a mummy's girl to be honest. I don't know how she would have injured her leg but she does run around a lot with my other two poodles.. This girl has produced 3 very large litters for a mini poodle - I am a registered breeder - but she is now desexed - she is a bit of a sook and if not well gets very quiet and off her food so maybe she is so lethargic because of the injury and how she feels. I do so want her to feel better have never had this with any of my dogs before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It sounds to me like it could be a spinal problem. I wonder why the orthopaedic specialist xrayed only the legs and not the spine. I would be asking for a spinal xray or MRI. I wouldn't be having any chiropractic manipulation done prior to having a spinal xray on this little one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It sounds to me like it could be a spinal problem. I wonder why the orthopaedic specialist xrayed only the legs and not the spine. I would be asking for a spinal xray or MRI. I wouldn't be having any chiropractic manipulation done prior to having a spinal xray on this little one. Carrying and whelping large litters does not help any girl's back, I would be getting her checked further. Perhaps the ortho was hoping it would be simple but needs a second look because obviously it wasn't, if you get my drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Has she been tested for DM? Does she drag her back toes on the ground when walking? http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/DM/basicDM.htm Edited October 3, 2013 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 My girl whom is 13 has suspected Degenerative Nerve Disease, it first started to show its symptoms by her getting stuck in a sit / falling back into a sit - it's like her body was forcing her to do it and she had no control over it, it then progressed to a drop. We're now at the stage where when she toilets she needs assistance otherwise she can't get back up from the squat. The only thing that is helping is acupuncture which thankfully I give her myself as I can get her stronger for 2 days at a time with it to where she can squat for toileting and get back up again by herself. You could perhaps be dealing with something similar and without scans I don't believe it can be diagnosed 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Only test so far have been the blood test and liver and kidney function etc all good, also he x rayed the hind legs to see if there was onset of crutial ligament damage or any broken bones etc. these xrays showed all good. He said if no improvement there is a very invasive test that can be carried out involves injecting die into the spine and up to the brain - must be done under anesthetic - I don't know if this is a MRI or not - he said the cost for this is around $2000. I want to see if it can come right before going down such a path - she is eating a little better and will see what the chrio says on Saturday - he seemed confident it was a muscle injury - he said he has seen a lot of greyhounds with similar injury. Looked up the DM link - sounds dreadful - she is only 4 1/2 years - sounds to come on dogs in later life - she is not dragging her legs but will walk for a while then sit down. If she seems no better will have to go down the other tests path - she recovered from her litters remarkably well and showed not signs of this before a couple of weeks ago - had her last litter in February and desexed a few weeks after pups went. She is normally a bouncy happy girl who loved her walks - she does seem to improve her walking when I take her onto the grass and let her walk back to the house - but once inside only want to lay in her bed - she lays on her back a lot with both back legs raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Oh she is a bit young for DM - I must have mis-read sorry! If she was mine I would give her some more time without invasive tests - so long as she is not worsening. Do you have a good vet chiro in your area? Or even better, an animal Bowen therapist? If she has pinched or bruised a nerve it will take more time than if it is muscular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I could be way off the mark here, but laying on her back with legs in the air suggests kidneys to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Only test so far have been the blood test and liver and kidney function etc all good, also he x rayed the hind legs to see if there was onset of crutial ligament damage or any broken bones etc. these xrays showed all good. He said if no improvement there is a very invasive test that can be carried out involves injecting die into the spine and up to the brain - must be done under anesthetic - I don't know if this is a MRI or not - he said the cost for this is around $2000. I want to see if it can come right before going down such a path - she is eating a little better and will see what the chrio says on Saturday - he seemed confident it was a muscle injury - he said he has seen a lot of greyhounds with similar injury. Looked up the DM link - sounds dreadful - she is only 4 1/2 years - sounds to come on dogs in later life - she is not dragging her legs but will walk for a while then sit down. If she seems no better will have to go down the other tests path - she recovered from her litters remarkably well and showed not signs of this before a couple of weeks ago - had her last litter in February and desexed a few weeks after pups went. She is normally a bouncy happy girl who loved her walks - she does seem to improve her walking when I take her onto the grass and let her walk back to the house - but once inside only want to lay in her bed - she lays on her back a lot with both back legs raised. The cruciate ligament does not show on xray. What an xray would show in the case of cruciate rupture would be any arthritic changes caused by a ruptured or partially ruptured cruciate ligament. This would not be visible on xray until some time had passed since the injury. The 'invasive' test the vet described and is referring to sounds to be a Myelogram not an MRI. My Cavalier had a Myelogram for suspected Invertebral Disk Disease. The Myelogram revealed he did indeed have a ruptured disk in his spine for which he had immediate surgery. He was 5yo when this happened and of course there was no possibility of any contributing factor such as multiple large litters by age 4yo. $2000 for a Myelogram sounds about right. She sounds to be in considerable pain. 3 very large litters is a lot for a small dog aged at just 4yo when the 3rd litter was whelped. I would have the Myelogram done. Then you will know for sure if there is a spinal issue. With due respect to the opinion of the chiro, a Mini Poodle is not a Greyhound. I would not allow any manipulation of this dog prior to a Myelogram or MRI. If the vet thought it was a muscle problem he would have advised you accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Just a thought - how long ago was she desexed? I wondered if it had anything to do with any surgery. Poor little girl she is still so young. I wouldn't let a chiro near her either until a definitive diagnosis is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Oh she is a bit young for DM - I must have mis-read sorry! If she was mine I would give her some more time without invasive tests - so long as she is not worsening. Do you have a good vet chiro in your area? Or even better, an animal Bowen therapist? If she has pinched or bruised a nerve it will take more time than if it is muscular. A bit off-topic but thanks for your two posts on this Alyosha. I think that's what my bichon had at 13 years old. It came on quite suddenly, and he couldn't get up and yes he dragged his toes when he did struggle to stagger forward on that last day. I had him PTS amid lots of tears and never had a diagnosis confirmed. Everything I read on the link you posted makes me think that's what happened. I've always wondered. So thank you. Edited October 3, 2013 by Zug Zug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 I could be way off the mark here, but laying on her back with legs in the air suggests kidneys to me. Kidneys came up fine from blood tests - heaps of dogs lay this way my other do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Just a thought - how long ago was she desexed? I wondered if it had anything to do with any surgery. Poor little girl she is still so young. I wouldn't let a chiro near her either until a definitive diagnosis is made. Nearly 6 months ago - nothing there she came through it just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 My first thought from your description was spinal. I hope you can get to the source of the problem, she's so young, it's heartbreaking to see them in pain and not be able to help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 With due respect to the opinion of the chiro, a Mini Poodle is not a Greyhound. I would not allow any manipulation of this dog prior to a Myelogram or MRI. If the vet thought it was a muscle problem he would have advised you accordingly. That's why I recommended a "Vet chiro" which is a vet that also does chiro work. :) A bit off-topic but thanks for your two posts on this Alyosha. I think that's what my bichon had at 13 years old. It came on quite suddenly, and he couldn't get up and yes he dragged his toes when he did struggle to stagger forward on that last day. I had him PTS amid lots of tears and never had a diagnosis confirmed. Everything I read on the link you posted makes me think that's what happened. I've always wondered. So thank you. Oh Zug Zug I'm sorry to hear about that. It used to be an accepted thing for some dogs to "go in the back end" as they got older. But now we know why. Hopefully now that it's easy to test for it will happen less and less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It could just be a muscle injury, a friend's dog recently pulled a groin muscle and the main symptom was just stopping suddenly and not wanting to move. It is coming good with physio (not chiro). But poodles also seem to be a bit prone to disc problems, something spinal is quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Hopefully its nothing too serious and can be fixed. If it doesn't improve you might need a referral to dog Neurologist.. All the best x Edited October 3, 2013 by Jules❤3Cavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 My girl is improving I am so happy to say she is walking a bit better and start ing hydrotherapy on Tuesday. Saw a Border Collie today making great progress with Chriopractor and hydrotherapy at 10 years was close to being pts but is getting a lot better. Will continue massage and exercise and hope she will come good. Thank you to all who have answered. Will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Thats good to hear mini girl, hope she keeps improving ;) x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Just an update - my girl continues to improve out of sight - she is walking so much better and returning to her old self . She is still very much a mummy's girl and plays a bit on this but the treatment is working. We are having a chiropractic treatment one a week which now includes a sort of tens machine on the legs and hydrtherapy once a week which is walking on an underwater treadmill and also swimming. We have also - on advice - started giving her home swimming in our spar heated to 30 deg at present only 5 mins a day also we are able to use our own tens machine at home too haven't done this yet but plan to. All I can say is I have about 80% of my old dog back and it is so good to know we didn't have to put her through invasive tests and surgery. It is costing us $75 a week for the two treatments but we feel worth every penny. I also thought if she had had surgery we would have needed rehabilitation after. Will keep this updated in case it helps others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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