Help

[Nekhbet]

More the point, what coping and management strategies were you taught by your trainers in order to have to be dependent on regular lessons from them? If the dog had a temperament test at the LDH home and did not have an issue with other dogs or food, then maybe it is a handling problem - Tippi is taking advantage of the situations and not being shown the alternative directly enough. Your problems actually sound quite minor... as for the tradesman - you have a dog with a propensity for a guarding instinct and you were not home, he entered the property and got a nip after a LOT of patience from the dog. That is NOT abnormal in fact that shows a LOT of restraint from the dog. If you wanted a quiet, roll over pet any stranger can handle and enter your property at any time you aimed for the wrong breeds. The growling at men, Tippi should have been shown a LEAVE command which is you attaching a neutral value to the dog and expressing that stimulus has NO value to it and to go off. It's basic control through conditioning and over the course of a year you should have achieved it with your trainers.

Yes we can be surprised at how dogs settle in to new environments but breed, gender and age can give us some good indicators. Mastiff and hunting hound background is not going to make for the soppiest, quiet dog compared to something like a cavalier if we look at the law of averages. Even the most well trained dog can regress or change with a new environment - one of my clients had a VERY expensive, well trained dog take a week and a half to settle in, start growling at their baby and then proceeded to cause injury to the original trainer of the dog when they came over for a visit. It's an animal, they're not always as predictable as we like to make them out to be but we just need the tools to manage the behavior and drive them in the direction we want them in.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Nekhbet

[Tippi]

This has been an extremely trying period for myself and my husband, so please keep your comments kind and positive otherwise, to yourself.

It's really not great to read some of the comments directed at us in regards to Tippi possibly having gone to the wrong home, etc. I grew up with large dogs, dobermans in particular and so I most certainly know how to handle the larger breed of dog. I have also volunteered at animal shelters for quite some time so have learnt how to deal with all types of dogs. In regards to the tradesperson visiting our property while we were not home. We specially told him that it was not a good idea, but he insisted that he didn't mind and wanted to finish the job. For someone to imply that we are irresponsible dog owners is extremely hurtful.

I have been making enquiries with dog behaviouralists today and will hopefully find someone that is able to assist us. We're not yet ready to give up on her.

[Nekhbet]

Tippi aim for people with a working dog background, there are people like K9IQ, K9 Services International, I do consults too if we can find a good time, also K9 Company which run classes.

As for the tradesman, all fool him. His fault really for entering a premises and the law is actually in the dogs favour.

[megan_]

I don't understand why the LDH wasn't contacted as soon as this behaviour began? The OP has had the dog for well over a year so was it aggressive when adopted?

Dogs can take a while to get comfortable and act in their fears. My own dog was extremely fearful and it took her 18 months to work up the "courage" to show aggression rather than extreme avoidance . No doubt I didn't handle things 100. % correctly, but many dogs live happy lives without their owners actively managing their aggression.

Tippy - I agree with HW's post.as the owner of a fear aggressive dog,I will never get a fearful or aggressive dog ever again . I love her dearly but it is very stressful and , to be perfectly honest, the stress negatively impacted my life for a number of years. I was stressed and guilt ridden ( all these well meaning people constantly suggesting that I see XYZ who will cure my dog/if I'm committed she'd be cured etc etc).

It isn't just about love and being committed. You need a certain skill set to rehabilitate a FA dog and I don't have those skills. Only you will know if you do.

As of at as management goes, a very respected behaviourist told me that management isn't enough . You can't guarantee that nothing will ever go wrong, no one will ever leave a door open etc. you need double doors on each exit point, locked gates, rooms they lock with keys do visitors can't let the dog out. Even then. , one mistake can end in disaster.

[JulesP]

This has been an extremely trying period for myself and my husband, so please keep your comments kind and positive otherwise, to yourself.

It's really not great to read some of the comments directed at us in regards to Tippi possibly having gone to the wrong home, etc. I grew up with large dogs, dobermans in particular and so I most certainly know how to handle the larger breed of dog. I have also volunteered at animal shelters for quite some time so have learnt how to deal with all types of dogs. In regards to the tradesperson visiting our property while we were not home. We specially told him that it was not a good idea, but he insisted that he didn't mind and wanted to finish the job. For someone to imply that we are irresponsible dog owners is extremely hurtful.

I have been making enquiries with dog behaviouralists today and will hopefully find someone that is able to assist us. We're not yet ready to give up on her.

You should have said no to the tradie. So yes you were irresponsible. By doing that you let the dog down. Sorry if you don't like me saying that but you need to accept your own part in all this. You need to think carefully about the situations that you put your dog in.

[Kavik]

I don't understand why the LDH wasn't contacted as soon as this behaviour began? The OP has had the dog for well over a year so was it aggressive when adopted?

Dogs can take a while to get comfortable and act in their fears. My own dog was extremely fearful and it took her 18 months to work up the "courage" to show aggression rather than extreme avoidance . No doubt I didn't handle things 100. % correctly, but many dogs live happy lives without their owners actively managing their aggression.

Tippy - I agree with HW's post.as the owner of a fear aggressive dog,I will never get a fearful or aggressive dog ever again . I love her dearly but it is very stressful and , to be perfectly honest, the stress negatively impacted my life for a number of years. I was stressed and guilt ridden ( all these well meaning people constantly suggesting that I see XYZ who will cure my dog/if I'm committed she'd be cured etc etc).

It isn't just about love and being committed. You need a certain skill set to rehabilitate a FA dog and I don't have those skills. Only you will know if you do.

As of at as management goes, a very respected behaviourist told me that management isn't enough . You can't guarantee that nothing will ever go wrong, no one will ever leave a door open etc. you need double doors on each exit point, locked gates, rooms they lock with keys do visitors can't let the dog out. Even then. , one mistake can end in disaster.

I'm the same as megan - I hope I never have another aggressive dog. The stress and guilt of dealing with Zoe's dog aggression also negatively impacted my life for several years. It had a huge impact on my confidence as well, and for a while I contemplated not ever getting another dog. Which probably seems shocking to those that know me well in real life, as my life revolves around my dogs, but the experience with Zoe really did crush me for a while.

[Purdie]

Perhaps also speak to some one who has experience with similar dogs.Rhodesian Ridgeback Rescue Australia are on Facebook.

They have crosses as well. It may help to get some advise from them.

[Cosmolo]

I think it's important to know you have tried everything within your means prior to considering euthanasia. Different trainers use different techniques and there are situations where a different technique can yield a dramatically different result. If you believe you have done everything you can you can be at peace with your decisions. Only you know if you're there yet.

[Leah82]

This has been an extremely trying period for myself and my husband, so please keep your comments kind and positive otherwise, to yourself.

It's really not great to read some of the comments directed at us in regards to Tippi possibly having gone to the wrong home, etc. I grew up with large dogs, dobermans in particular and so I most certainly know how to handle the larger breed of dog. I have also volunteered at animal shelters for quite some time so have learnt how to deal with all types of dogs. In regards to the tradesperson visiting our property while we were not home. We specially told him that it was not a good idea, but he insisted that he didn't mind and wanted to finish the job. For someone to imply that we are irresponsible dog owners is extremely hurtful.

I have been making enquiries with dog behaviouralists today and will hopefully find someone that is able to assist us. We're not yet ready to give up on her.

You should have said no to the tradie. So yes you were irresponsible. By doing that you let the dog down. Sorry if you don't like me saying that but you need to accept your own part in all this. You need to think carefully about the situations that you put your dog in.

I agree with this, it's your responsibility to make sure your dog is not put in positions she is uncomfortable with and is likely to react. Only you know what this is, it wasn't up to the tradie to decide for you. The bite could have been worse and he could have complained to the council, you were lucky that didn't happen but now Tippy has learned what she needs to do to get rid of people she's uncomfortable with which is to bite them.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Why on earth some people get a kick out of making other's feel like s**t, I will never understand. OP asked for support!!!

Dogs give us so many signals/signs with their body language. I for one wasn't born knowing how to interpret them, and I certainly misinterpret many of them.

Owning a reactive/aggressive dog is THE MOST EXHAUSTING, STRESSFUL EXPERIENCE, it consumes your entire life. No matter how hard you try, you simply cannot be with your dog 24/7 for 15+ years. These behaviours escalate from mild - to completely out of control - in the blink of an eye. Now consider there are partners/children/other pets/friends/relatives etc you have to think about - sometimes you are left to react to situations rather than control them to keep your dog under threshold.

I know many people, having watched me struggle with my reactive dog - will now never consider adopting a pound/rescue dog, simply because they never want to deal with 'that'. That is certainly a real shame for all the reputable rescues working their butts off.

[persephone]

Why on earth some people get a kick out of making other's feel like s**t, I will never understand. OP asked for support!!!

Dogs give us so many signals/signs with their body language. I for one wasn't born knowing how to interpret them, and I certainly misinterpret many of them.

Owning a reactive/aggressive dog is THE MOST EXHAUSTING, STRESSFUL EXPERIENCE, it consumes your entire life. No matter how hard you try, you simply cannot be with your dog 24/7 for 15+ years. These behaviours escalate from mild - to completely out of control - in the blink of an eye. Now consider there are partners/children/other pets/friends/relatives etc you have to think about - sometimes you are left to react to situations rather than control them to keep your dog under threshold.

I know many people, having watched me struggle with my reactive dog - will now never consider adopting a pound/rescue dog, simply because they never want to deal with 'that'. That is certainly a real shame for all the reputable rescues working their butts off.

well said.

it is exhausting and stressful for everybody . I had a dog with fear aggression issues ....

I hope Tippi gets an honest assessment and some solid guidance .

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Tippi would not have a bite history if she had been managed better and better decisions had been made

I'm not sure. I have problems with the gas meter readers - they've got 30 seconds per house and it's 30m or so to the back of the block from the front to read the gas meter, same with all the houses in this area...

I've got a sign on my gate - beware of the dog, and I've talked to each reader - because I'm usually home when they come and they all ignore the sign - despite telling me that their company policy is to knock on the door when they see a sign like this... and barge straight into the back yard at speed - despite the dog.

One of them was lucky - dog was still young and just chased him to the meter and back barking her head off. Another was also lucky - had managed to get out before the dog caught up with her... and other times - I've heard them coming and caught her. And met them out the front to tell them off.

Well having read this thread - I've gone out and put locks on the gates because the meter is due to be read again this week... They always go "I'll put a note in for your house" and I say - that only works if you read it *before* you go through the gate.

Personally I don't want to risk a dangerous dog declaration fight with council because some meter reader was trying to get their quota...

The point being - some people will come in your yard despite being warned about an unfriendly dog.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Salukifan]

SSLF

Tippi would not have a bite history if she had been managed better and better decisions had been made and I personally think it's important for the OP to understand this.

Given that this dog has NO history prior to her adoption, that's one hell of a call.

[hankdog]

It's not all doom and gloom. You need to out aside all the thoughts that you know anything about digs and start learning about aggressive dogs. It's quite fascinating and the more you read the more you will be able to recognize triggers and know what actions to take.

You may find you have a highly trainable dog who you enjoy working with. You could find yourself getting into dog sports or training with a whole new outlook on dogs and their place in society. See this as an opportunity to explore the unknown. Yes it may not be for you but give it a go. What do you have to lose?

[Salukifan]

It's not all doom and gloom. You need to out aside all the thoughts that you know anything about digs and start learning about aggressive dogs. It's quite fascinating and the more you read the more you will be able to recognize triggers and know what actions to take.

You may find you have a highly trainable dog who you enjoy working with. You could find yourself getting into dog sports or training with a whole new outlook on dogs and their place in society. See this as an opportunity to explore the unknown. Yes it may not be for you but give it a go. What do you have to lose?

It's a lot less "fascinating" for those who have to live with such a dog on a daily basis. No amount of reading about dog aggression will make that easier.

Dog sports with a dog that is DA and HA with strange men is not what I'd call a realistic goal.

I'm sure Tippi would settle for being able walk her dog in public and have strangers visit her home without incident. Hopefully she can get some decent advice on how realistic a goal that is.

Sorry, but a large aggressive dog is not an "opportunity". It's a serious liability that requires constant vigilance. There's a fair proportion of anxiety and downright fear as to what might happe. Don't make light of what its like to live with one - others here have shared their experience and its not a sunny one.

Its certainly an "opportunity" I'd not wish on anyone.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Salukifan]

I think hankdog knows better than most what it's like to live with a highly reactive dog and it is an opportunity to learn an incredible amount about dogs. It's an opportunity I would have happily forfeited for a dog that's not reactive but it's an opportunity nonetheless. Hankdog is the last person who would make light of owning a reactive dog after everything she's been through with Jake.

The OP sounds a very long way from being able to intellectualise ownership of a DA and HA dog as any kind of an opportunity.

I'm not sure how being told to cheer up helps at this point.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Salukifan]

You know the hardest part of owning a dog like this? No matter how much you know and how much you train and manage, you are at the mercy of every other dog owner and person the moment you leave your yard. If it goes wrong, the potential for a serious aggression incident is very real.

The other thing to remember is that this is no cakewalk for the dog either. The stress and anxiety are generally on both ends of the lead.

One thing I would recommend to Tippi is that her dog be muzzled when off her property. In addition to lessening the chances of a bite, it sends a very clear signal to members of the public that this dog should not be approached - and that is a good thing. It will help Tippi to relax a little too.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hoping Tippi comes back and lets us know what they decide to do...

[hankdog]

Haha that's ok, happy to be mistaken as the owner if a normal dog. Even if it is only on the Internet.

I do think a muzzle would give everyone peace of mind and let people know to back off.

This dog does have a loving side, she's ok with cats and can go to a training class. She's able to handled by a stranger. That's all positive.

Yes she did nip a tradie, he was alone in the house. The dog had know way of knowing he wasn't a burglar. On the continent this dog was originated on that is considered desirable behaviour. Her size is against her and bouncing her through homes probably isn't a good idea. However if the owners wish to explore different options then I think they might find it do able abd they might also come to see some positive aspects.

I certainly wouldn't look for another norty dog but I dont regret taking on my boy. Sometimes the hardest things you do make bring you a deep appreciation for life.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

I agree HW.