lovemesideways Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Sorry, but i don't intend to follow suit and not take my dogs out in public places that we enjoy frequenting together. I am however going to pick other eating locations that have physical environments that are better suited to keeping passers-by from encroaching on our personal space. Additionally the puppy will wear a high viz vest indicating she's in training. I am normally never stressed around the dogs, even when people approach us. But on this occasion we were hemmed in and then followed by this man and his dog who wouldn't take "no" for an answer. I reacted fine in the initial stage: I asked him to move away twice and he wouldn't move away. I knew that the puppy was going to react; he came too close and confined us in to the wall. I reacted in what i see as the only possible solution; to move away to reduce the puppy's reaction; because he wouldn't...even then he followed us. The way i see it, he was harassing us. A harness works great. I had one of these http://www.k9pro.com.au/dt-fun-dog-harness.html on roscoe as soon as he was big enough to fit it with a "in training" badge on the sides. I got really sick of the question "whats he in training for?" but it definitely stopped people from just walking up and trying to stick themselves/their dog in his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Sorry, but i don't intend to follow suit and not take my dogs out in public places that we enjoy frequenting together. I am however going to pick other eating locations that have physical environments that are better suited to keeping passers-by from encroaching on our personal space. Additionally the puppy will wear a high viz vest indicating she's in training. I am normally never stressed around the dogs, even when people approach us. But on this occasion we were hemmed in and then followed by this man and his dog who wouldn't take "no" for an answer. I reacted fine in the initial stage: I asked him to move away twice and he wouldn't move away. I knew that the puppy was going to react; he came too close and confined us in to the wall. I reacted in what i see as the only possible solution; to move away to reduce the puppy's reaction; because he wouldn't...even then he followed us. The way i see it, he was harassing us. A harness works great. I had one of these http://www.k9pro.com...og-harness.html on roscoe as soon as he was big enough to fit it with a "in training" badge on the sides. I got really sick of the question "whats he in training for?" but it definitely stopped people from just walking up and trying to stick themselves/their dog in his face. i have a high viz vest that says : "L"earner (L is like an L plate on licence) please ignore me i'm training. I had it for Wilbur and people still came up to me. She wore it today to a new cafe that has a better, less crowded physical environment. Even when walking down the street toward the cafe, someone saw her and then let their dog cross the path toward her; i managed to block the dog with no hassles and just kept on going. Anyone that talked to us, did so from a distance and didn't encroach on our personal space - exactly how i expect people to behave; with respect and politeness. Today she was much more reactive toward other dogs in the environment than ever before so i'm going to have to make sure i have very high value treats with me all the time when out and about to keep her distracted. I'm doing early stage LAT with her but she still has a low thresh-hold when dogs are too close. I may put Wilbur in his big harness that has the velcro patches; i just need to get the training patches for it. Generally people now leave us alone when he's with us; he's a big boy. A month or so ago, a bloke from the next table tried to entice Wilbur over for a 'hello'...i stopped that pretty quickly; it was friendly and all fine. People see a labby puppy and their brain turns to mush apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 A harness works great. I had one of these http://www.k9pro.com...og-harness.html on roscoe as soon as he was big enough to fit it with a "in training" badge on the sides. I got really sick of the question "whats he in training for?" but it definitely stopped people from just walking up and trying to stick themselves/their dog in his face. She isn't loose leash walking yet and wears an Easy Walker front martingale harness...is it possible to put the harness over the Easy Walker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I made a similar thread about Ernie. I am 100% behind you on this. Just as i don't see why my kids have to greet every freaking person they walk by; I don't get why my pup does either. I'm in charge, I should get to choose how and when they are socialised. That being said, I now realise that some folks have no sense of personal boundaries when it comes to dogs. Much like when I was pregnant and strangers used to want to feel my belly. Hell, no. Boundaries. Personal space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 it doesn't bother me when people stand at an appropriate distance and ask to pat etc and accept "no" and we have a chat etc I just don't like being hemmed in by someone with a large dog that i know is going to set the puppy off barking because he's sat it a few feet away from her and at eye level. Wilbur sits quietly and is fine, but the puppy is learning how to behave in public and people who push their way into our space when we are CLEARLY sitting at a table eating etc and won't move away and then get pissy because i won't do what they want, the way they want are not going to like my reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 That is a bully. No reason why you should have to justify any of your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The bloke was right on one point only ... when we take our dogs out into public places we can expect all sorts of things. And that would include a bloke like him lobbing up... who wouldn't cooperate when you tried to negotiate the situation according to your dogs' needs. He seems to be totally vacant on that last point. I tend to agree with juice about aiming to interact softly, softly & keeping stress levels in check around our dogs. BUT that's my armchair advice .... I wasn't there so in all honesty I don't know how I would've responded for all my good intentions. Bottom line, you tried to negotiate & got stone-walled. Definitely stress-provoking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Guess its time to find a new place to go to. They all sound like crazies at that one Some people are so weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 That is a bully. No reason why you should have to justify any of your actions. I agree with Stressmagnet. That person was rude and a bully, and so was the person from the store! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 We tried a new cafe for breakfast this morning; pup wore her high viz learners vest & i moved her mat under my chair. Once i can have her on the ground without harassing her brother it will be much easier. The new place isn't as crowded with tables & chairs packed in on top of each other as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Buy an ugly black muzzle and put red tape on it. Take it with you when you go out and you should find the problem completely solved :laugh: I tried that logic with Cody (a very fearful dog who hated other dogs in his space when on lead). Unfortunately Jo Public just assumed it meant he was aggressive towards people so would stand a lead's length away and allow their dog to go up to him This was at obedience/agility training too, where people should at least know a little better... When out with my dogs I work on 2 principles- every person is an idiot and every dog is poorly socialised. I would prefer to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised than the other way around. I don't allow other dogs into our space and have been known to take a boot to a dog that was hassling mine (usually attached to an oblivious owner, but sometimes a km down the beach from the owner). I got into an argument a few years ago with someone at Petfest in Sydney. We were running flyball that day and I had only picked Whip up from the breeders the night before so it was a huge day for a young dog (he was 10-11 weeks old). He was crated next to the C-crate pens that housed the others and all were under the gazebo area which had been protected by sides until pack-up time. Some lady insisted on bringing her dog right up to the crate and allowing her kids to put their fingers in to pat the puppy. I asked her repeatedly to take her dog away to which she insisted "I am, I am" yet the dog was still straining the collar and right up against the crate. Seemed like a nice enough dog but hardly an experience I wanted for my new puppy. I ended up forcing my body between crate and dog and used it to force the dog to get back away from Whip. Our other dogs were going spare by this point at the thought of a strange dog encroaching on their space. The ironic thing about it all is that had she asked nicely I would have jumped at the opportunity to get Whip out of the crate to meet her kids and get pats and treats from them. Instead, I had to turn into a crazy woman and scare them all away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandra 157 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 That is a totally unacceptable situation SW,Even disregarding the dogs .Its very hard ,trying to socialise a young dog and people making it more difficult than it needs to be.I used to get so frustrated when I was trying to socialise Jesse.as many people thought because he was a Collie he must be friendly.The times I heard " oh,there's Lassie ,come and give him a pat ".I was the one who felt guilty when I had to say he didn't like strangers! I have a couple of places I take the 2 small ones now that are really dog friendly and pleasant for all. Just occurred to me as I was typing...not nearly as many try to pat the little ones...maybe they look "snappy" . :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spencinator Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Remove the dogs from this equation and the whole thing is highly inappropriate, is harassment and borders on assault. Add dogs and why does it become different? This is what I was thinking. What if you were scared of GSPs for some reason? There would be no question that the guy should give you space if you request it (and really shouldn't approach in the first place). Just because you have a dog doesn't make it ok. The situation you were put in is one of the reasons why I'm looking at small dogs for my next breed... you can always just scoop them up and out of harms way if need be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 I find having dogs that you take to shared public spaces is tricky and inconsistent. On one hand i'm expected to keep my dogs away from people and other dogs in case they don't like to be approached (which is a responsibility I fastidiously uphold) and on the other hand I'm expect to allow all and sundry to approach my dogs in any manner they want irrespective of my or my dogs' needs. There appears to be an unspoken assumption that once you take a dog in public you lose the right to peace or to be left alone and you're in the wrong if you insist on maintaining that right. When I was in Paris and Berlin earlier this year there were dogs in all manner of shared public spaces and the dogs were left alone by others. Why do Australians find it so difficult to maintain some kind of respectful behaviour when with dogs; both their own and others'? I have a friend who on one hand gets pissy when people let their dogs approach her in public spaces because she's had a bad experience in the past (which i find a reasonable expectation for her to have) and yet tells me that she would be one of the people who would pat my dogs in public and her excuse is because she loves dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denali Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Just wondering, maybe buy a harness with labels saying "in training" if you make it look official the general 'joe-public' may ignore you more. But i agree. It is annoying. And i am sorry you had to deal with these asshats. ETA: totally agree with the europe thing. Dogs everywhere and pretty much ignored by anyone other than their owners. Would be handy while at cafes. Mine frequently get patted at cafes- especially by children. Lucky they are child and people safe dogs. Edited November 23, 2014 by denali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I have a friend who on one hand gets pissy when people let their dogs approach her in public spaces because she's had a bad experience in the past (which i find a reasonable expectation for her to have) and yet tells me that she would be one of the people who would pat my dogs in public and her excuse is because she loves dogs Gawd, I dislike friends like that. My rule of approaching any dog is to ASK its human if it is allowed to touch them. Simple and saves grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I've been led (blindfolded) by a Guide Dog in training and had people whistling the dog and trying to distract it. You can't fix stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denali Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I've been led (blindfolded) by a Guide Dog in training and had people whistling the dog and trying to distract it. You can't fix stupid. That is terrible God i hate most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Just wondering, maybe buy a harness with labels saying "in training" if you make it look official the general 'joe-public' may ignore you more. But i agree. It is annoying. And i am sorry you had to deal with these asshats. ETA: totally agree with the europe thing. Dogs everywhere and pretty much ignored by anyone other than their owners. Would be handy while at cafes. Mine frequently get patted at cafes- especially by children. Lucky they are child and people safe dogs. i'm looking into this, i've emailed k9pro about how long a back order would be as they're out of stock atm...the one downfall of harnesses is that they are back clipping and Laiken is on an Easy Walker harness as she pulls and has only just started learning any leash skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denali Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Just wondering, maybe buy a harness with labels saying "in training" if you make it look official the general 'joe-public' may ignore you more. But i agree. It is annoying. And i am sorry you had to deal with these asshats. ETA: totally agree with the europe thing. Dogs everywhere and pretty much ignored by anyone other than their owners. Would be handy while at cafes. Mine frequently get patted at cafes- especially by children. Lucky they are child and people safe dogs. i'm looking into this, i've emailed k9pro about how long a back order would be as they're out of stock atm...the one downfall of harnesses is that they are back clipping and Laiken is on an Easy Walker harness as she pulls and has only just started learning any leash skills. That is a bit of a pain.. I dont know of any harnesses with a front clip and velcro patches. Probably not, but you couldnt wear them under each other could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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