VizslaMomma Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... Code Red is a bit more than peeing when you get that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Of course the owner of the kennels is going to feel and say they didn't do enough, Pets died. Peoples babies died. No-one has kennels unless they care about animals, they will forever feel they didn't do enough. They are going to be haunted by this forvever, the owners will be haunted by this for ever. To lose a pet is bad enough, to lose one in this way is completely horrifying. As a pet owner I too would be at least thinking, why were they not out? could more have been done? But I also know that moving that volume of animals is not an easy task. I know that bush fires are unpredictable, terrifying and can move extremely quickly. Hindsight is 20/20 it is easy to sit back and cricufy them now isn't it. I cnanot believe for one minute that an owner of a boarding kennel and animal lover would deliberately put the animals in there care in deliberate danger. It is possible they didn't do enough, I am not saying it isn't BUT I also think it is very easy for people to say who were not there. Therefore I will not pass judgement. Last year there was a very large fire 30kms from me. On that day it was over 40 and the winds were around 100kms/hr. Potentially that fire could have reached my place in 18minutes. Not once did I think I need ot get these dogs out. Was I on high alert? yes as we ended up with 3 fires. I was helping a friend with a cat rescue get crates etc to get hers out. Did I think I needed to evacuate? nope I didn't. but 18 minutes and that could have been me! Of course other kennel owners are coming out in defence of this kennel, surprise surprise. Majority of kennels are located in rural/semi rural areas so could be subject to bush fires during extreme/catastrophic weather conditions and they need to have evacuation plans in place to accommodate the safe evacuation of all pets in their care. This is particularly important during the busiest time of the year which is also when these extreme/catastrophic weather conditions can occur. As a dog owner who has used kennels frequently over the years for one or multiple dogs, I expect them to take preventative measures to ensure the safety of my beloved pets. The whole reason us pet owners use kennels is to keep our pets safe whilst we are away!. Many of us are fully aware that evacuating a kennel full of pets in an emergency situation is a difficult task and therefore it should not be left until the last minute when fire is virtually on the doorstep or when it is unsafe to do the evacuation. I think after this horrific tragedy, there will be many pet owners (myself included) asking kennels for full disclosure of their evacuation plans in emergency situations. Why is it that some kennels will evacuate as a safety precaution long before their kennels are exposed to any danger, if at all and others play russian roulette with our pet's lives Yes we were not there and we are sitting in judgement on the internet, but how are we as pet owners meant to feel when there are many reports of this kennel being offered help to evacuate when other animal owners were evacuating their or their friends animals in the same vicinity as the kennels and the kennel owners own admission that they didn't do enough. They didn't save any of the pets, they left them locked in their kennels to die in the most horrific conditions The fact that 40 dogs survived was only due to the kennel block those dogs were housed in being spared from the fire. You see it all the time in bushfires, the random nature of fire with some buildings burned to the ground, others next door completely untouched. Inaction, wrong decisions have consequences and no doubt the kennel owners will be living with their wrong decision making for the rest of their lives, but so will the poor pet owners losing their pets in the most horiffic circumstances Yes hindsight is 20/20, but kennel owners have a duty of care to be "extra cautious" during extreme/catastrophic weather conditions during their busiest time of the year and these extreme weather conditions were forecast days in advance. In this technological era, where there is a wealth of information at your fingertips, people can't use ignorance as an excuse of not keeping abreast of weather conditions and impending emergency situations and especially businesses like kennels in bushfire prone areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... Code Red is a bit more than peeing when you get that call. Umm I have got that call. My property was under ember attack during Black Saturday. Btw code red is a CFA term which means the highest fire danger. It doesn't mean your house is about to burn down. It means if you can't defend your house or don't want to then it would be a good idea to depart for the day. They can issue a code red with zero fires around. Really people should know this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... Code Red is a bit more than peeing when you get that call. Umm I have got that call. My property was under ember attack during Black Saturday. Btw code red is a CFA term which means the highest fire danger. It doesn't mean your house is about to burn down. It means if you can't defend your house or don't want to then it would be a good idea to depart for the day. They can issue a code red with zero fires around. Really people should know this shit. Yes, people should know it, but it doesn't help when each state has different codes... hence my "error" before... since I am in NSW. I know what our codes are, and when we would leave (and, yes I have evacuated recently with pets as a precaution). Edited January 5, 2015 by pipsqueak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I am hardly defending them I am saying at this stage I will not pass judgement. They may well have done things wrong, but I am not going to crucify people when I don't know enough! I also said that as a pet owner I would question why they were not evacuated as I am sure they will be expecting. As a kennel owner I am extremely cautious. I know what these beings I have in my care are worth to people, I know they expect they are well looked after and safe and I know they should easily expect that. I do also understand logistics, my kennels are not that big and to be honest I never want them to be. Before you go on the "you are only defending them as you also have kennels" maybe you should actually read what is written. I and other kennel owner are extremely well aware of our obligations and levels of care that are required Edited January 5, 2015 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Umm I have got that call. My property was under ember attack during Black Saturday. Btw code red is a CFA term which means the highest fire danger. It doesn't mean your house is about to burn down. It means if you can't defend your house or don't want to then it would be a good idea to depart for the day. They can issue a code red with zero fires around. Really people should know this shit. I thought you must have had involvement, Jules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes random people took others pets but they were out and that's all that mattered at the time. I for one would rather be looking for whoever had my greyhounds than knowing they had died in that horrific way. I've been thinking about this and while it would be such a peace of mind if the fire came through (as it did in this case), I've been thinking about how I would feel if it was a false alarm evacuation, and someone had my dog. What if they didn't secure her properly and she got hit by a car. Or someone just decided to keep her. Or was attacked by another dog. I know these are all what if's, but so was the fire. I'm not saying which I prefer, because in all cases I prefer the outcome where my pet is alive. But none of us can see the future, and I can imagine the kennel owners concern with just sending pets off with people. Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, it's something I've been pondering for the last 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I think after this horrific tragedy, there will be many pet owners (myself included) asking kennels for full disclosure of their evacuation plans in emergency situations. Or perhaps rethinking leaving their dogs in kennels in urban fringes at the height of the Australian bush fire season? After all, ultimately who is responsible for the safety of my dogs. IMO it's me. Evacuating a kennel is logistically extremely challenging. Getting dogs and cats out is difficult enough. Having somewhere to take them is the other big ask. There are risks associated with transporting and relocating pets, particularly in emergency situations where volunteers with varying degrees of skill and judgement must be used. You want a cast iron evacuation plan? Then be prepared to pay a hefty premium for it. It won't come cheap to the kennel owners. I'd like to see people not vilifying the kennel owners for what was, in hindsight, an error of judgement. They have lost everything. They thought they'd be safe staying. They were wrong. That is a situation that has confronted many many people confronted by bush fires in this country and my guess is they wont be the last. Sitting in judgement on the internet without full possession of the facts is what I expect on social media. That doesn't make it right. It certainly is not compassionate, nor helpful to those who have suffered the loss of their pets. Mourn what has happened, hope that other kennel owners learn from this tragedy and cut these poor buggers some slack. There will be a time to ask questions and gather facts but now it's all too raw. Have a heart for pity's sake. They are suffering enough. I have seen zero evidence to suggest that they didn't give a damn about the animals in their care. Edited January 5, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Jemmy something similar happened yesterday where people started taking horses without the knowledge or consent of the owners :/ Meant one more thing for the police to sort out when the owners reported the horses had been taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes random people took others pets but they were out and that's all that mattered at the time. I for one would rather be looking for whoever had my greyhounds than knowing they had died in that horrific way. I've been thinking about this and while it would be such a peace of mind if the fire came through (as it did in this case), I've been thinking about how I would feel if it was a false alarm evacuation, and someone had my dog. What if they didn't secure her properly and she got hit by a car. Or someone just decided to keep her. Or was attacked by another dog. I know these are all what if's, but so was the fire. I'm not saying which I prefer, because in all cases I prefer the outcome where my pet is alive. But none of us can see the future, and I can imagine the kennel owners concern with just sending pets off with people. Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, it's something I've been pondering for the last 24 hours. I know which "what if" I'd choose but that's my personal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think after this horrific tragedy, there will be many pet owners (myself included) asking kennels for full disclosure of their evacuation plans in emergency situations. Or perhaps rethinking leaving their dogs in kennels in urban fringes at the height of the Australian bush fire season? After all, ultimately who is responsible for the safety of my dogs. IMO it's me. Evacuating a kennel is logistically extremely challenging. Getting dogs and cats out is difficult enough. Having somewhere to take them is the other big ask. There are risks associated with transporting and relocating pets, particularly in emergency situations where volunteers with varying degrees of skill and judgement must be used. You want a cast iron evacuation plan? Then be prepared to pay a hefty premium for it. It won't come cheap to the kennel owners. I'd like to see people not vilifying the kennel owners for what was, in hindsight, an error of judgement. They have lost everything. They thought they'd be safe staying. They were wrong. That is a situation that has confronted many many people confronted by bush fires in this country and my guess is they wont be the last. Sitting in judgement on the internet without full possession of the facts is what I expect on social media. That doesn't make it right. It certainly is not compassionate, nor helpful to those who have suffered the loss of their pets. Mourn what has happened, hope that other kennel owners learn from this tragedy and cut these poor buggers some slack. There will be a time to ask questions and gather facts but now it's all too raw. Have a heart for pity's sake. They are suffering enough. I have seen zero evidence to suggest that they didn't give a damn about the animals in their care. The kennel is responsible for the safety of the pets in their care!! We (pet owners) kennel them to keep them safe whilst we are away!! As I said in my previous post, majority of boarding kennels are located in rural/semi rural areas, so technically any of them could be subject to bushfires when the extreme/catastrophic conditions exist, so they need evacuations plans "in case" they ever have to evacuate the pets in their kennnels during an emergency situation. Initially, I did feel sorry for them (see my original post on page 1) as I know they also suffered personal losses, but between the interview I saw with the owner in the news programme over the weekend stating "they didn't do enough" along with an absolutely distressing graphic image in the burnt out kennel which should never have been shown on the news or in newspapers as it was extremely upsetting and I cannot unsee this image and stories starting to come out that he was out fighting fires as a CFS volunteer and his wife apparently overseas (this was initially posted on their facebook page by their brother in-law's cousin trying to defend them), then who was looking after the kennels in both their absence?, their 16 year old daughter according to Facebook This may explain why NO pets were saved by the owners or evacuated when it was safe to do so. You expect me to have compassion for this kennel's losses, when by all accounts they neglected their duty of care to the pet owners that entrusted their beloved pets into their care who paid a terrible price for their negligence . I will save my compassion for these poor devastated pet owners and their deceased pets who died in the most horrific circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 You expect me to have compassion for this kennel's losses, when by all accounts they neglected their duty of care to the pet owners that entrusted their beloved pets into their care who paid a terrible price for their negligence . I will save my compassion for these poor devastated pet owners and their deceased pets who died in the most horrific circumstances. I don't expect anything. As I said, this is social media in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Good grief I really that story about the 16yo looking after the kennels isn't true. That poor child! What a thing to have to live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Haredown if everyone decided not to board their dogs in the height of an Australian summer, and really that can be anytime in Dec/Jan/Feb, there wouldn't be any boarding kennels. They'd go broke that's their busiest time. Many people can only take their holidays over the Xmas/New Year period when businesses shut down and kids are on holidays. That'd be like people saying they can't get a dog because they are forced to have holidays at that time and they are too scared to board them in case the kennel burns down in a bushfire :/ Aren't most kennels on the urban fringe? I don't know any inner city kennels. I have to board my dogs in the first week of Feb while I return to Sydney on business, I have no choice I am legally required to attend. I'm not wrapt about the idea in the hottest month of the year but seeing I have just moved interstate and don't know anyone it has to be done. One question I will be asking is if the live-in caretaker is a volunteer firefighter because if god forbid something like this happens I don't want my dogs left for any reason. I will be leaving them in a strange place in good faith that they will be protected at all times. Edited January 5, 2015 by HazyWal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 As an aside if anyone wishes to donate the money required for kennels to purchase large dog trailers feel free! I know what I would do, but that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 There are a couple of kennels in the city here in the industrial areas. Both are also welfare orgs, but you would expect they would have systems in place regardless of where they are located in the case of any sort of emergency. Can anyone with kennels give a definitive answer on the issue of release/ waiver forms. Do they stand up in court? Could the pet owners have signed away their rights? I was discussing this with someone earlier and they said they bet there were lawyers out there rubbing their mitts together drawing up class action. Etc. So I wondered how release forms would come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Release forms do have to be written up by a lawyer with all their guff in place to stand up in court. In most corcumstances I believe they would stand up in court. I guess in this instance whether theirs will or not would depend on how they are written and if it is proven they were negligent. Kennels have waivers to guard against people trying to take action against them when the kennel has done everything they could have in a situation and a pet has ended up unwell or died and their owners are jerks. ETA - I haven't ever had anyone take me to court, but yes I have had some dogs in my care become extremely unwell and one has had to be euthed. I currently have a dog boarding who has a shocking anaphylactic bee allergy. Last time she got stung, despite her getting given an antihistamine she collapsed in 30 minutes and was in imminent danger of dying. I cannot be in the kennels watching her every second like her owner can. I will and do do everything in my power to make sure she is kept safe. However I do occasionally have appointments etc and do have to leave the kennels. If she was to get sting while I was not there she may well die. We have discussed this fully and how we are going to manage her to the best of our ability. If she does then get stung and die I do not believe I have done anything wrong and have provided her with the best care I can. Others may feel differently. Edited January 5, 2015 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I can give you the exact wording of mine but essentially it says I will do everything possible to keep a dog safe but if a dog does or is injured I cannot be held responsible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 As an aside if anyone wishes to donate the money required for kennels to purchase large dog trailers feel free! I know what I would do, but that's me. Should be part of the setup costs of a kennel business and should have been factored into their business plan which should include an evacuation and disaster recovery plan. It is starting to sound like kennels are not prepared for emergency evacuations, which is quite frightening, given the amount of boarders some of these kennels have over a Xmas period. Would be interesting to find out what a kennel's obligation is for evacuation planning and carrying out an evacuation in emergency situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads Edited January 5, 2015 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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