6 week old Puppy diagnosed with MPL

[Valcor]

Hey i recently just attended a 6 week vet check for my Puppy with the Breeder and the vet discovered the dog has a Grade 2 MPL (Medial Patella Luxation)

He recommended the Puppy would need surgery down the line if it's still present at the 12 week check up. He says sometimes it can improve once their muscles and tendons get stronger. None of the other puppies had any problems and it was only my puppy that has this issue in the litter.

The vet did also say the surgery should permanently fix the issue in most cases, but sometimes it can regress from what i researched.

The Breeder along with me was shocked by this, she has never had anything like this happen. After talking with her she has offered to refund my deposit or if I go ahead with the purchase she has also offered to pay for the surgery.

The surgery would cost about $2500 according to the Vet, which the Breeder would cover. On the condition the surgery is  before 12 months of age and its done at the Vet we both share. 

Now from what I researched there would be a lengthy 2-3 month recovery. In which he would need to be separated on crate rest for a large portion, and have very minimal mobility while recovering.  I'm worried mostly about the lengthy recovery after the surgery. 

 

For context I have 2 other dogs so I would need to separate them to avoid any playing or over excitement. So my main worry is how hard the recovery is going to be taking this into account.  This would be a lengthy peroid of separating them 24/7 and a good portion of that would be me having to help this Puppy with mobility and rehab.

 

From what I researched the first week or so I would need to help him go to the bathroom untill he could walk normally. Apparently you use a sling to help him for the first week so he doesn't have to put weight on his leg. After that he would slowly start to walk and I would just need to rehab him while keeping him separated.

What do you guys think I should do? And what would you do. I'm obviously attached to this Puppy having met him. My heart says to go ahead, but my brain is telling me I should wait for another litter and pick a healthier pup.

[twodoggies2001]

I am by no means an expert, but, if I was in your position, I would pick up a healthier pup as your brain is telling you. 

This puppy is going to miss out on a lot of milestones a normal healthy pup would encounter in the growing up phase.   

Of course, you are attached to this puppy already, who wouldn't be but think about what's in store for you as an owner and the puppy for rehabilitation ahead.

[Loving my Oldies]

It is horrible for you, but I agree with @twodoggies2001assessment of the situation.  The breeder seems to be prepared to go above and beyond for this puppy so I think he will be okay. You need to think about the probably next 15 years of your life.  

[Dogsfevr]

My first question would be is this vet knowledgable enough to diagnose it ??
Why did the vet come to this diagnosis??

As to choices thats only something you can decide 

[Valcor]

24 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

My first question would be is this vet knowledgable enough to diagnose it ??
Why did the vet come to this diagnosis??

As to choices thats only something you can decide 

 

He diagnosed it during a regular check up as he was checking and moving the back legs. He spent extra time on this one puppys legs and seemed to be worried before finally telling us.

 

From what I have researched it's pretty common for a vet to discover the luxation during a regular check of the hind legs.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Valcor

[Valcor]

3 hours ago, Loving my Oldies said:

It is horrible for you, but I agree with @twodoggies2001assessment of the situation.  The breeder seems to be prepared to go above and beyond for this puppy so I think he will be okay. You need to think about the probably next 15 years of your life.  

Thank you both for your comments I think I'm inclined to agree with you both. The recovery is really worrying me since it's a long process. I just don't know how I would go separating our dogs from the puppy for 3 months while giving him the attention he deserves.

[Deeds]

What breed is the puppy?

[Papillon Kisses]

I would choose a healthier pup. In this situation you’re not just looking at the immediate challenges of crate rest. But also an earlier onset of arthritis and, as twodoggies alludes to, a higher likelihood of behavioural problems/illnesses like anxiety, aggression, reactivity and noise sensitivity, due missing those important milestones, and also due to being in pain at critical stages of development.

 

More about socialisation as there are many misconceptions: https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Puppy_Socialization_Position_Statement_Download_-_10-3-14.pdf

 

And studies about the impact of pain on behaviour:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2018.00017/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7071134/

 

If you proceed with pup, extra care and an alternative approach will need to be taken during the critical socialisation period to help steer things in the right direction. Here are the best places to look for dog trainers who can help you with this:

https://www.ppgaustralia.net.au/find-a-professional
https://www.deltainstitute.edu.au/find-a-trainer

 

I would look specifically for someone who takes behaviour cases rather than just running puppy classes. They’ll be more knowledgable about the things I’m talking about and can do one-on-one consults. Polite Paws Sydney can do online consults and classes if needing to go that route.

https://www.politepaws.com.au/training-services.html

 

If you proceed with pup and later on need a vet behaviourist / behaviour vet, here is where you can find one of those:

https://www.anzcvs.org.au/chapters/veterinary+behaviour+chapter

 

And do ensure you have a rehab vet or physio for aftercare.

 

Best wishes whatever decision you make. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Papillon Kisses

[asal]

5 hours ago, Valcor said:

 

He diagnosed it during a regular check up as he was checking and moving the back legs. He spent extra time on this one puppys legs and seemed to be worried before finally telling us.

 

From what I have researched it's pretty common for a vet to discover the luxation during a regular check of the hind legs.

 

at six weeks any puppies bones and ligaments are so pliable he could have diagnosed the whole litter with a push in the right place

 

you haven't a real clue until they have finished growing and that's more like at 10 to 14 months depending on breed, my vets opinion any vet who wants to do the op before they are 14 months needs the money to pay off the new 4 wd.

 keep the weight off and many never need and op either

 

well remember looking after a friends Australian champion bitch, as she was running occasionally she would stick her hind leg out behind her. do a few hops and working normally again. took her to my vet and yep she had luxating patella but as he said. no need for an op. she has figured how to pop it back in herself.

 

did wonder how any judge could award challenge points to a dog who could lock up right in front of you?

 

[Dogsfevr]

54 minutes ago, asal said:

 

at six weeks any puppies bones and ligaments are so pliable he could have diagnosed the whole litter with a push in the right place

 

 

Yep just like the same vets that say HD because they poked & pulled puppies .

Its worrying that some vets make such bold diagnosis at such an age .

[tdierikx]

I'm with asal and Dogsfevr... at 6 weeks it would be near on impossible to either diagnose a luxating patella in a puppy, let alone grade it. Just out of curiosity, is the vet involved going to be the one who performs the surgery, or is he advising a specialist orthopedic vet to do it?

 

My first suggestion would be getting the pup to a specialist in orthopedics for a second opinion on this diagnosis.

 

I would be extremely leery of any vet who thinks they can diagnose such an issue in a 6 week old pup, let alone one that advocates surgery for that issue before the pup has reached full maturation of the joint..

 

As stated by asal, patellar luxation is not necessarily a surgical case, as some dogs have perfected their own means of rectifying it as it happens, and are not in any level of actual pain when that happens. Any orthopedic surgery also has it's own risks and long term effects, such as earlier onset of arthritis... the trick is to understand what the trade-offs are for the dog's long term health and wellbeing, and whether we will be causing more of the latter in order to "fix" the former.

 

I have a litter of small breed rescue pups here. They are 10 weeks old and all have quite loose joints, but that is perfectly normal for their developmental stage for their breed type. I remember watching them as tiny slugs just learning to get their legs under themselves to learn to walk, and was amazed at exactly how loose all the joints were and the strange angles they could get into. All 4 pups are now running and playing perfectly normally and developing well, albeit their joints are still a bit loose, as is perfectly normal for their developmental stage.

 

I'd be interested to know what breed your pup is too...

 

T.

[Valcor]

22 hours ago, asal said:

 

at six weeks any puppies bones and ligaments are so pliable he could have diagnosed the whole litter with a push in the right place

 

you haven't a real clue until they have finished growing and that's more like at 10 to 14 months depending on breed, my vets opinion any vet who wants to do the op before they are 14 months needs the money to pay off the new 4 wd.

 keep the weight off and many never need and op either

Yeah I can see what you are saying but to his credit he did check the entire litter infront of me and it seemed the rest were truly fine.

 

The Vet and breeder were discussing with me that there is a chance like you said that it solves itself when it's older. But that's a gamble that I would have to take and by that time I would have no option but to deal with it.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Valcor

[Valcor]

13 hours ago, tdierikx said:

I'm with asal and Dogsfevr... at 6 weeks it would be near on impossible to either diagnose a luxating patella in a puppy, let alone grade it. Just out of curiosity, is the vet involved going to be the one who performs the surgery, or is he advising a specialist orthopedic vet to do it?

 

My first suggestion would be getting the pup to a specialist in orthopedics for a second opinion on this diagnosis.

 

I would be extremely leery of any vet who thinks they can diagnose such an issue in a 6 week old pup, let alone one that advocates surgery for that issue before the pup has reached full maturation of the joint..

 

As stated by asal, patellar luxation is not necessarily a surgical case, as some dogs have perfected their own means of rectifying it as it happens, and are not in any level of actual pain when that happens. Any orthopedic surgery also has it's own risks and long term effects, such as earlier onset of arthritis... the trick is to understand what the trade-offs are for the dog's long term health and wellbeing, and whether we will be causing more of the latter in order to "fix" the former.

 

I have a litter of small breed rescue pups here. They are 10 weeks old and all have quite loose joints, but that is perfectly normal for their developmental stage for their breed type. I remember watching them as tiny slugs just learning to get their legs under themselves to learn to walk, and was amazed at exactly how loose all the joints were and the strange angles they could get into. All 4 pups are now running and playing perfectly normally and developing well, albeit their joints are still a bit loose, as is perfectly normal for their developmental stage.

 

I'd be interested to know what breed your pup is too...

 

T.

The breeder had a similar opinion that she was shocked that they could diagnose it so young. But apparently she does respect this Vet and says he's the best at this particular practice. The Vet didn't really get into specifics of surgery, he just said that the pup probably would need it down the line. From what I have researched Grade 1 doesn't need surgery, but grade 2 might and 3 and 4 definitely do.

 

A second opinion from a specialist probably would be a good idea. But I was just so confused on what to do I didn't think about that. The breeder said she is going to see what happens at his 10 week vet appointment and see if the joint is better. Maybe if it's not I will suggest she gets a second opinion. But at this point I have got my refund so it's not any of my business.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Valcor

[Valcor]

On 05/09/2023 at 4:31 PM, Papillon Kisses said:

I would choose a healthier pup. In this situation you’re not just looking at the immediate challenges of crate rest. But also an earlier onset of arthritis and, as twodoggies alludes to, a higher likelihood of behavioural problems/illnesses like anxiety, aggression, reactivity and noise sensitivity, due missing those important milestones, and also due to being in pain at critical stages of development.

 

More about socialisation as there are many misconceptions: https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Puppy_Socialization_Position_Statement_Download_-_10-3-14.pdf

 

And studies about the impact of pain on behaviour:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2018.00017/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7071134/

 

If you proceed with pup, extra care and an alternative approach will need to be taken during the critical socialisation period to help steer things in the right direction. Here are the best places to look for dog trainers who can help you with this:

https://www.ppgaustralia.net.au/find-a-professional
https://www.deltainstitute.edu.au/find-a-trainer

 

I would look specifically for someone who takes behaviour cases rather than just running puppy classes. They’ll be more knowledgable about the things I’m talking about and can do one-on-one consults. Polite Paws Sydney can do online consults and classes if needing to go that route.

https://www.politepaws.com.au/training-services.html

 

If you proceed with pup and later on need a vet behaviourist / behaviour vet, here is where you can find one of those:

https://www.anzcvs.org.au/chapters/veterinary+behaviour+chapter

 

And do ensure you have a rehab vet or physio for aftercare.

 

Best wishes whatever decision you make. 

Thank you I ended up ringing the breeder and saying we just can't commit to the puppy. Not an easy decision for me at all. I hope like the others have said that this is just a misdiagnosis for the puppies sake.