huski

Thanks huski - the chair plan sounds like it could work for Elbie and whatever works is 'right' for us. We'll take the stand in slow steps then. On a side note, I watched one of your vids when you were proofing Daisy's 'stay' and you were throwing toys around her and distracting her and she was lying there very well-behaved. I thought that it was a great way to proof Elbie's stay (we usually just tug on the leash). I tried it with Elbie and he was great as I threw toys around his head. Unfortunately, the first time I threw a ball past his head, my dog disappeared. He is good now and I can toss balls and his favourite toys and he will keep a drop/stay, sit/stay - I hope I can make his stand-stay as strong one day. That's awesome work KTB! I do proofing like that with all positions, including stands. I put her in a stand and will stand over her with my legs on either side, I jump up and down, pat her, wave food in front of her face etc. I also only reward for all four feet on the ground (so if she 'shuffles' her feet or moves one then no reward). Just really solidify to hold the position no matter what, until I give the release command.

I have no idea if it's right or not, but I trained a solid stand by sitting in a chair with Daisy in front of me and getting her to 'pop' her back end up instead of stepping into the stand. Once I did this I put it on voice command so I could remove the lure entirely (I also have it on a hand signal). With the SFE, I would take it a back a few steps. Put him in a stand, and get someone to walk past, reward for that. Once that is good, get someone to walk up and stand next to him, and so on and so forth until you get to the point where someone can go to put their hands on him without him breaking the stand.

hehe, snap SA! Don't know I have much constructive advice to give though, apart from having been there, and knowing how frustrating it can be especially when people go "why would you bother training x breed?"

What a load of crap, it would instantly turn me off her as a trainer. Feel free to link her to my youtube channel if she wants to see why someone would "fancy" training (and competing with) a beagle. The trainer sounds pretty incompetent to me - many trainers can take a dog and train it themselves, but a good trainer can get the handler doing it themselves. And honestly, at four months, a good trainer should be able to get you walking her on a loose leash without excessive leash corrections. It's tricky as you are in a regional area, but it doesn't sound like this particular club environment is setting you or your dog up for success. I know exactly how you are feeling. K9 Pro does a loose leash walking distance package, that might be worth considering The down side of club training is that classes can move quickly and instructors don't often have time or the ability to work one on one or at the pace each dog needs to be working at. A bad class can do more harm than good. When you are doing loose leash walking training (say outside of class) have you tried turning sharply on your heel in the opposite direction when she pulls, instead of pulling her towards you? She is a gorgeous little thing!

Huge congrats everyone!! That's brilliant!

Bumping this up as I have decided to start training the seekback with Daisy. She loves doing scent games - you'd hope exercises where she uses her nose are ones that would come rather naturally for her, so I can't wait to see how she goes. Scenting is a real default behaviour for her, before we got a white dumbell she was having trouble seeing the plain wood one sometimes and she'd put her nose right down and 'track' to find it instead :D Does everyone start out training it using a proper SB article or has anyone started training it using another object?

Welcome to the forum, Donegal. Nice first post. Your sentiments echo exactly those of at least one other current member. And from SA too! Funny. There are a lot of people who use corrections without using them like Cesar does. There's more option in training than using a clicker (or food and cuddles) and applying corrections like Cesar does.

Sure, and in the other times you use food and cuddles, right?? I don't go out of my way to watch his show or prescribe to the parts of his methods I don't like. But this is a thread asking everyone for their opinions on his methods, do you really think the only people who should respond should be those who love everything Cesar does?

Exactly

A little from column A.... and a little from column B I am yet to put it to the test at a trial, will have to keep it in mind for the next one though. LOL.

I agree, I don't think the work in the vid is particularly good. Why bother when you can get far better work faster by motivating your dog with food, toys etc

I am paying just under $300 to share a cabin, that includes two nights accommodation, meals, the workshop etc. It was more if you don't share. ETA: I will even throw in alcohol for anyone who is game enough wants to pop into our room hahahahaha

Agree with you completely - I don't have a problem with air blocking a dog in an urgent matter of safety but I would run a mile from any trainer who used it as their sole method for training an aggressive dog, or really, for anything other than prevention.

In a matter of life and death where you urgently have to prevent the dog from attacking then you do what you have to do (and I have said so in the past), but that is not how Cesar presents the method on his show. Does he ever mention that long term training is involved? No. The show is edited so that it shows Cesar intentionally putting the dog in a situation where it will severely aggress - he cuts its air off or alpha rolls it - the dog gives up (or runs out of breath) - problem solved. Aggression is not a simple black and white behaviourial problem, it is not always about the dog being dominant, believing so makes no room for the majority of aggression that is fear based and on whom confrontational methods would ruin not help. I am quite concerned as a dog trainer that you see no other way of training an aggressive dog Oh FFS, this thread was started asking people what they thought of Cesar's methods. Many people (myself included) have said that there are things he does we agree with and things he does we don't like. Are the only people allowed to give an opinion about Cesar people who want to bow down and kiss his feet? The only person I see bashing anything in this is thread is you, having a go at anyone who so much as remotely has an opinion that goes against your own.

Oh no, it's Micha's favourite game. He loves the I'm-a-scary-monster-and-I'm-gunna-get-youuuuuu!! game I am not interested in owning a totally calm puppy, I want my dogs to be active and crazy and have a bit of the devil in them (or a lot, LOL) and to switch on and give me 110% when I ask for it, but like RSG and PF there are situations where I want calmness and well behaved puppies.

But you did say choking a dog was an appropriate training method, and then went on to say; No one has implied such a thing Why act like there are only two options, there are many ways to train aggressive dogs, why assume that if people don't agree with choking a dog until it gives up (because it's run out of air) that they must therefore feel training dogs with "cuddles and food" is the only appropriate option?

Thanks again everyone!! Daisy got very spoilt yesterday and weather permitted will be getting professional photos done on Sunday ;) LOL thanks Rach!! :love: Get them to join DOL and I will set them straight Ishy, she sounds a lot like Daisy as a baby puppy. They both come from Semeru lines, maybe that's where the evil beagle gene comes from :D

Why the assumption that it's either alpha roll and choke your dog until it gives up, or food and cuddles? Who here is saying that dogs shouldn't learn the rules? Why the insinuation that if you use food or praise with aggressive dogs you aren't also able to implementing boundaries or rules? I have no problem with giving corrections, using tools like prongs or e-collars etc or giving dog boundaries but some of the things Cesar does makes me feel quite ill. Besides, many people would not be strong enough to choke or alpha roll a 50kg aggressive newfie until it gave up (or just plain ran out of breath). ETA: I find it amusing that anyone who doesn't 110% support Cesar is lumped into the new age food and cuddles, never ever punish your dog crowd.

Not sure Baxter, you will need to contact Ann at Camp Tailwaggers to check

Totally agree Cos. I've seen people label insecure and fearful dogs as dominant and try to handle them how Cesar suggests and it does nothing to benefit the dog. That's not Cesar's fault directly but IMO there are flaws in his training methodology.

I don't think Cesar is all bad, but that doesn't mean that if I don't think he's brilliant that I can't "see the fact" - what fact? That he gets bitten all the time when using confrontational methods with aggressive dogs? That one way of dealing with aggressive dogs is to choke them until they almost pass out? Not as a safety matter but as a training method? There are MANY trainers out there who have stopped large number of dogs from being PTS without using the confrontational methods Cesar uses. Are they just as "brilliant"? I would go OFF if ANYONE touched my dogs the way I've seen Cesar handle some of the dogs on his TV show.

LOL BB! She's a donut snob, mumma could only get the Coles brand donuts, sorry puppy

Wow thanks everyone for all your comments!! I am super proud of my little beag x Like our trainer said to me the other day... any brag is a big brag with Daisy considering what we started with Daisy got to have a special beagle treat for her birthday today; She looks unimpressed because it's a not a Krispy Kreme (sorry Daisy, I didn't have much time today). Some more pics Hanging with Mish: Toilet paper, oh nom!

Surely Nekhbet though you are aware there are other options when training an aggressive dog other than choke it, or cuddle it and give it food I've seen trainers handle "red zone" (as Cesar would call them) dogs without resorting to alpha rolling them (that would just be sheer stupidity anyway) or choking them till they give up (or run out of oxygen, either way) with great results so... I guess the "they are strong aggressive dogs" doesn't really make sense for me. And often, handling big aggressive dogs like Cesar does would be outright impossible for many owners to do - you'd have to be able to physically over power the dog, until it breaks. And even then, you are setting yourself up to get bitten.

I think some of his methods are ok and even common sense, but I also think some of his methods are out right dangerous and stupid. Have you seen how often he gets bitten? I would never use confrontational methods as a way of dealing with aggression. Some of the things I've seen him do to dogs makes me feel quite sick.