huski

Steve from K9 Pro will be up here at Camp Tailwaggers in February for another weekend workshop, whose coming along? Daisy and I will be there

Yeah but there is a lot more to it IMO than just giving a correction, IMO. I think it's an oversimplified solution to a more complex problem. JMO.

But how high value can the reward be if the dog is not interested in it? I used to be able to shove steak under my dogs nose and she wouldn't notice it, no amount of physical corrections changed that. Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with using corrections or consequences by any means. But I don't think that using them automatically makes the dog have a higher value for the reward you are using.

Totally disagree with this 15 weeks is NOT too young to be out and about It is a shame that this happened but this could have happened walking down the street Hope your pup recovers mentally Flaves Dogmad said too young to be going to a dog park, not too young to be out and about. I don't even take my adult dogs to dog parks, never mind a young puppy. So glad to hear your puppy is ok Jessie. I do agree with others that if these dogs meant business your pup would have been dead - that's not saying their behaviour is in anyway acceptable, of course.

If other dogs are higher value than the owner, that is not something that is simply fixed by giving corrections IMO. I would be looking at why the owner and the reward they have to offer is not high enough value before anything else. I was told to simply correct my dog and it did nothing to build our relationship and increase my value for her.

LOL yes funny sometimes. During a heel pattern or stays... not so much And are stronger, drivier dogs who are going to naturally give more drive and focus and will more naturally come into that position. I know how natural it was for my dog to come into that position and look up at me, I am sure it is not that different for drivier dogs like the Mal in that video.

This is another one of my dog heeling; I never taught her to look up at me. That came naturally the more drive and focus we built. I'm not sure how it can be unnatural when the dog naturally offers the behaviour.

I like "happy". I don't like 'obsessed'. Maybe that's how the working dog folk like it but in the video you posted, the dog is actually looking back over its shoulders for most of the heel work. Imagine trying to walk like that on uneven ground. Imagine doing it for 20 minutes. It's just not natural. A dog can cue off more than the handers eyes!!! Keeping in mind though that the dog in the vid I posted would be a very high drive WL dog who would not easily tire, and would have more drive than the average person would know what to do with. I couldn't get that level with my dog because she's just not high enough in drive. But it wouldn't take much to get that level of 'obsession' with a dog who is naturally so high drive.

Was just on Utube looking for one. I like the figure 8 in That starts at the 2 minute mark in this. The dog is focussed but there is clear daylight between dog and handler. LOL! I think that's nice work. He's a bit slow to sit and in other places, but I would love to watch a dog that happy in the ring Ptolomy and Bedazzled always have beautiful heelwork, if they pop in, hopefully they will share a video

PF do you have a video example of what you class as nice heelwork? Just so I can see what you prefer to see. ETA: I have a few Aussie examples I'd love to share but I don't want to post them without permission I've not had anyone ping me for crowding in the ring yet in mock trials or the real deal (though we are just starting out) and I like my dog quite close.

hmm.. after watching this , I can understand why people see obedience trained dogs as 'robots'. It certainly is not anything I would be interested in ..I do not find it attractive , or showing off a dog's cleverness (apologies) Did you see the vids I posted of my dog persephone? More than anything, I want a dog who looks happy to work. IMO, you see far too many dogs in the obedience ring who do not look happy to be there or who look like they are just going through the motions.

Personally I like the heelwork here;

My dog will 'raise' his front legs out like that with little guidance if anything from me, he has practically had zero obedience training, and obviously not to that extent, but he does do it. Considering it was Schutzhund he wouldn't be marked down for it here in Australia AFAIK. In obedience, he could be marked for crowding depending on the judge.

How unnatural is it really though? I have found my big dog will give me a nice prancey heel when he is in drive, he naturally comes into heel position without any real guidance from me. Not as refined as in the clip Kavik linked to by any means, but gave me food for thought.

Lovely work

Personally I think there's a difference between a dog that's focussed on the handler and one that appears to be grafted around the handler's left leg. Dogs shouldnt be touching handlers and IMO in wrap style heeling that does tend to happen. Bloody hard to do a left turn with a dog in that position. How extreme are we talking PF? Do you mean like English style heelwork? I am happy if I get this from Daisy; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EirXW2xt52Q Though I can't walk in a straight line but that is irrelevant handler error I would also be happy with this; But the second one I'd like to see more drive from her.

Wrap style heeling isn't everyone's ideal of 'correct' heeling. The dog was supposed to walk close by the handler's left hand side to avoid interfering with a broken shot gun. It shouldn't be touching the handler or not looking where its going IMO. I like to see my dog heel with 110% focus on me. I am the one who is directing where we are going. I actually don't like seeing dogs in the ring who are looking straight ahead, look like they are just going through the motions and appear to have a disconnect with the handler. At the end of the day my dog would not do competition heelwork if she didn't enjoy it, there is no mistaking how happy she looks to work IMO.

Awww thanks everyone Every time I see her retrieving over the jump I have a little giggle as it just looks sooooooooo cute, when she's coming towards you over the jump her beagle ears are flying everywhere :rofl:

Really lovely work! Well done Ptolomy! But wow what a short heel pattern in comparison to what our QLD judges give us! We get all 3 positions in all 3 paces! It's not fair!! Cider is AMAZING!!! Totally agree re the heel patterns, wish ours were that short Though I'm sure a longer heel pattern wouldn't phase Cider!

We did some work on our retrieves tonight! I am very pleased with how Daisy is coming along. I was having trouble with her scenting the ground and not seeing the dumbell, I got one with painted on sides yesterday and WOW - INSTANT difference. She did the speediest retrieves very consistently tonight. You can see she is so much more confident because she doesn't need to look around for the dumbell anymore. I wasn't asking for a complete exercise as I wanted to work on building her confidence in retrieving it nicely now she can see it better, without worrying about finishes etc. Just in case anyone is wondering she can hold it for longer and I realise I was snatching it from her :rofl: ETA: And excuse the missing bit at the beginning, I cut out me throwing it as Daisy pre-empted my command and I had to set her up again. But I couldn't be bothered going out to pick the dumbell up

Ugh... I hope some reputable dog trainers/behaviourists can participate so it's not just more one sided RSPCA crap.

Will definitely see you tomorrow! I think Loeka might have a bit of a crush on Daisy : ) He kept wanting to look at her as we walked away. Or... he wanted her dumbbell. I'm not sure haha... Hahaha he wasn't the only dog who wanted her dumbell LOL! She thought he was very handsome But then again she was tarting herself up with all the boy dogs this weekend

Go Ptolomy and Bedazzled! Amazing work especially from Cider. I hope there is video!!

Yep that's her website Hopefully she will do another one in Brissy and you can come along!

It was great to meet Loeka! He is such a lovely dog. And yep definitely made a big difference with him - you could see his confidence change the second time he went through the obstacles. Should see you guys at training tomorrow night