WoofnHoof

RIP Tess, it's obvious she was well loved.

Lol yeah they seem to have a registry for anything over there :laugh: Yeah the pinto STBs have been around a while they aren't too popular for racing but some can find homes after racing, unfortunately they aren't a popular breed for pleasure/performance so there is a lot of waste That is one thing I found interesting with the reactions to the coloured TBs because of the performance horse market many people believe that a coloured TB has a better chance of finding a home after racing, whether or not that's true I'm not sure certainly the pretty ones have a better chance as hacks etc but they are still TBs underneath so not for every rider. I think if acceptance of certain colours will bring new people into breeds and widen the gene pool (within that breed) then it is a good thing whether it's horses or dogs or whatever, you will always get dodgy breeders who will cash in on a fad no matter what it is. I want a white shep one day, I don't want to get one from a dodgy breeder churning out rare whites for the sake of it I want one from a good breeder who has health tested stock. Luckily we do have people breeding some lovely whites in this country, they went against the grain and some started their own registry some started the push for the ANKC to accept them (as another breed which makes no sense to me since they all come from GSDs as far as I'm aware but anyway that's a whole other can of worms). Anyway my point is that I think if the kennel clubs are going to be stick in the muds about colours then I'd rather people breed coloured animals with quality in mind than not breed at all, because not breeding just leaves the niche available for dodgy breeders turn churn out rare colours IYKWIM?

Yes the US tend to make their own rules lol! Interestingly because the Australian Stud books accepts TBs that are registered in the US we are now having a bit of an influx of coloured thoroughbreds in the racing scene, Winning Colours Farm being the main importer, not sure if they are likely to actually win anything but they are awfully pretty and it's fun watching the TB purists going into conniptions over them :laugh: ETA link

Yes to clarify I'm only referring to colours which have always existed in the breed and were simply not selected for due to fashion or personal preference at the time standards were written, thinking of white GSDs and parti poodles etc. Breeds which have had unexpected colours crop up would require further investigation as to the verifiable origins, you see it in horses sometimes with a palomino suddenly appearing from a line of chestnuts, genetically improbable WRT spontaneous mutation, the likelihood there is that a guilty party has jumped the fence lol :) No doubt the same occurs in dogs so there would need to be some sort of agreement that the colour has appeared enough times in different lines to be likely to be endemic to the breed and not an anomaly. Even without DNA this could be done by collating enough records showing a repeated occurrence, assuming there are enough breeders who admit to mismarks/odd colours appearing in their lines.

Sometimes those colours don't exist in the breed until someone uses a different breed to introduce the colour. To me there is no rare colour, it's either correct (according to the breed standard) or it is not. I agree with this. Nothing is stopping people from taking mismarked dogs that they like the look of and attempting to do as the Quarter Horse and Paint Horse people did, start their own breed! Except for money, dedication, knowledge and things like that maybe? Why attempt to cash in on a breed's name when the dog clearly does not meet the standard? When people start to breed for these "rare colours" it is usually (I would like to say "always" but I guess that might be too broad a statement) the dogs who suffer. Other issues are ignored in favour of the colour, people acquire these dogs for the wrong reasons, mass production can reduce the quality of life of the few "rare colour" breeding individuals and the dogs can quickly degenerate to simply a dog of a "special colour", utility and even form can be completely lost whilst chasing that colour, not to mention the gene pool becomes extremely restricted after a while. As you can tell I am not in favour but I try not to judge those who are. It can be difficult to ignore emotions when dealing with people's breed of choice (by that I basically mean me and my breed of choice lol) so I hope I shall be forgiven for sometimes looking down my nose at people wanting to change breeds for no good reason other than liking the look of a certain colour (colours that crop up in a breed naturally are slightly different in my opinion than colours that resulted from cross breeding, especially when the introduced colour is dominant and could wipe out the original colour) I have a friend who only likes rotties without a tail, after the tail docking ban lots of people abandoned their breeds because they didn't like the look of the dog without a tail (irrespective of tail damage debates which are limited to a few breeds so not relevant to the point I'm making), now the tail is only one part of the dog, just like coat colour. Some people have a colour preference, people don't generally have an issue with a colour preference so why have an issue just because its not an accepted colour according to a section of the breed standard which is largely irrelevant to anyone who buys a dog for something other than showing? I know when I set out to buy a warmblood I went looking for a relatively rare colour, I figured if I was going to spend a stupid amount of money on a purpose bred youngster already on the ground I may as well get the colour I want, doesn't mean I threw out considerations such as conformation, temperament or suitability for the purpose, just meant I wanted that colour if possible as well as the other things, luckily I was able to get it. I don't believe in breeding for colour only but I do believe you can breed the colours you like without throwing out the baby with the bath water, its not automatically a given that quality is out the window just because colour is a consideration.

Okay, take the kerry blondes as an example. I have never seen one. The only reason I know there have been some is because of that photo. Most kerry people would never have seen one. Something can't be part of a breed standard if it's so rare as to be near non-existent. For all I know, they're wheaten crosses (though this is highly unlikely given the genetics of the wheaten coat colour). Yes this is where DNA verification is handy, but as my post above I am speaking generally in terms of colours that crop up in the breed, they haven't been selected for but they are still colours that exist within that breed so I don't see how rare and non existent can be equated, its rare because it hasn't been selected for but it does exist. In the old days many white GSDs were knocked on the head at birth, so they became rare simply because only breeders knew that they cropped up, it wasn't general knowledge until people started letting them live.

That's the beauty of the DNA age, parentage can be verified very easily these days, I'm not talking about colours that are the result of a cross I'm only talking about colours which have existed in the breed for decades and haven't been wiped out despite not being selected for, hence why I say colours that are obviously intrinsic to the breed should be accepted.

With the rare colours becoming popular maybe they can no longer be considered undesirable? ETA it still seems strange to me when they clearly haven't succeeded in breeding the colour out so it must be fairly closely linked to a trait that is favourable or essential otherwise the colour would have been bred out, so to me it means the colour is an intrinsic part of the breed and should be accepted, except in the case of health issues of course.

If the colour exists in the breed then its a part of that breed, culling out colours to make them more 'same same' seems a bit silly to me, why pretend it doesn't exist when it clearly does?

Fixed ETA plenty of recessive genes are harmless, chestnut is one of the most common coat coat colours in horses but it is a recessive trait.

Given their job as a badger hunter, the badgers would see the white? Sealyham Terriers may be in trouble if that was the case! Like Diva said earlier, our breed is fortunate to have all colours allowable. However under FCI standard blue and chocolate are disqualifying faults. And even our standard specifys dark eyes and eye rims dark - which should discount dilutes. It also says specifically that eyes should not be light - just in case there is any confusion! :laugh: Dilutes can appear in the breed, albeit rarely. I have seen a couple of blue eyes and what appears to be dilute pigment/light eyes in others. I woudn't think a hound with dilute pigment and light eyes would be as suited to working in extremely cold climates and over snowy plains like Borzoi originally did. But then I've often wondered about blue eyes in Siberian Huskies in the same sense. Could they be prone to sun/glare damage? Everything I've read about huskies suggests there is no signficant difference between blue eyes and other colours in terms of eyesight and sun damage.

He will be prone to sun burn and possibly skin cancer from repeated burning. You can manage that with screens or U.V fly masks,which would also protect his eyes.The eyes too are prone to damage from the sun from their extreme lack of pigment. Hi, Grey and White horses, can also end up with Melanoma in later life, from repeated sunburn/exposure to extreme UV It's interesting how the majority of grey horses still have quite long and healthy lives in spite of this, I know one in particular who is approaching 30, still gets ridden and rarely wears any sun protection (he tends to kill rugs etc) he does have one growth and has had it for years without seeming to be adversely affected by it.

It's 100% on the parents, kids take their cues from those around them. I used to be friends with a woman (emphasis on the used to be) who had a toddler who would hit other children, one day I had my dog there and the child went straight up and hit him, I said "don't hit my dog" in a firm voice, and the child looked at her mum (as did I hoping for some backup which sadly never came) and when she saw mum didn't seem to care she went after the dog again, I had to remove him from the situation She was supposedly an educated woman yet had a partner who belted their little JRT pup (for 'running away') so badly it chipped a bone in his leg. What hope is there for the kids with parents like that?

Some of it will be where they're from, though, like with blue in huskies. Or is that malamutes? Yeah lots of huskies have blue eyes, it's a fault in Mals. I love my husky's amber eyes :)

Interestingly the double dilutes in horses have been long avoided in many breeds, only recently were double dilutes allowed to be registered in the QHs, yet no such issue was held against single dilutes, palominos, buckskins etc. the management seems to be the primary issue as the diluted pigment is thought to make the double dilutes more prone to skin issues in the sun so most people who own them have sun protection measures in place, although having said that most of the ones I've seen don't seem to have skin issue anyway so whether that's a result of improved quality m not sure, I know it doesn't seem to be an issue in single dilutes which seem to have the same risk of skin issues as solids. Now of course those who breed for colour prize the double dilutes as they are guaranteed coloured progeny especially in recent years, I have noticed that since they've been allowed to be registered in the QHs the quality is improving as the colour becomes more mainstream and available. Mostly though as with anything it depends on the breeder and their choices, as in the dog world there are horse breeders for whom colour is the only consideration and so of course they tend to skew the population by churning out ill tempered and ill conformed beasties simply because they are coloured, whereas it is certainly possible to find a well bred coloured horse they are the rare ones, especially in some breeds where dilutes have previously not been looked on favourably for whatever reason.

Not sure about dogs but gene colour tests in horses are about $25 sent to the US, I had a parentage DNA verification done on mine it was $90 it can be done through UQ. A friend had a genetic disease screen done on a foal it cost about $100.

Keep an eye out at lifeline bookstores as well, you can often find textbooks there. :)

Wonderful! Great job :)

This is Lulu she is a cream Swedish Vallhund, the cream is a fault in the breed I believe it is because the coat is softer and not as tough as the darker colours, I'm not really up with the genetics of the colour but I think it's lovely :) She does suffer from summer skin sensitivity but whether that is associated with the colour I don't know, she has pigmented skin. I think that rare colours should be allowed to become part of most breeds except in the cases where it is associated with a health problem, everyone has a colour preference so why make it that any colour is harder to get for no good reason? I've always preferred lighter colours in most of my animals, I don't know why it's certainly not because I like continually washing them lol :laugh:

They are looking lovely :)

Lol no that is the big chestnut fellow in the first post :) I will have to take some more pony pics, they are a bit grotty at the moment with all the rain, Tiny is still a cheeky bubba he cracks me up :)

If he is amenable to taking her OS maybe he could put her in a kennel and pay the kennel owner to organise to send her over when all the arrangements are made?

It wasn't offered at the clinic when my husky was desexed, if it had been I probably would have saved a lot of money and stress as it would have shown up his liver issue well before he started getting sick. I would do it now with any dog that hadn't already been done.

This, please do a book!

Apart from a bit of cold 4 legs for dinner my husky surprised me while I was out by returning the wallet he stole from me many months ago! I had looked everywhere for it including all through the yard, it must have been outside somewhere because the notes are dirty and look very much the worse for wear, but hey it's $40 I didn't know I had so that's a score! Most of my cards had since been replaced but I hadn't gotten around to replacing my medicare card yet so I was stoked to find it in among all the stuff I thought was gone forever, not sure how to explain the bite marks in the corner but oh well I'm happy he would deign to return it at all :D