alpha bet

I think this is very generalised.... there are many many dogs and people who go to off leash areas and have a great time... you might have seen shit happen, but I have observed loads of dogs enjoying themselves... Just one example last October: At the opening of the Craigieburn Off Leash Park there would have been easily over 300 dogs there over the three hours of the opening... and no problems.... this was not a huge area and at one point the Craigieburn Dog Club was staging their demo within the park.... they had their dogs onlead and running thru heeling patterns and there were perhaps 60 other dogs in the area and none bothered the training group... I have seen the same at various beaches and other parks... lots of people and their dogs enjoying the open space and the dogs meeting some new friends. We run our own private off leash training park here and specialise in teaching the families how to get the best out of off leash social... also how to deal with the occassions when things are not so good. With backyards becoming so small people need places where they can give their dogs a chance to stretch their legs and to interact.... If you don't like the parks... don't go....

Actually the study I referred to was DEFINATELY for e-collar..... some 6-7 years ago from memory.

LisaCC... think your comments to Steve are a bit harsh.... I can see where Steve is coming from as I have been to watch quite a few of the presentations from 'PHD student studies' - have to say I was very disappointed, I naively thought they would have some great things to contribute but actually was amazed at how basic and limited these studies where.... after all the purpose of these studies is for the student to actually show that they know 'how' to conduct a study... the result seemed fairly 'pointless'..... What really surprised was the limited number of dogs actually in these studies.... I shall give one example here: Study conducted on e-collars "with the expectation of showing the negative attitude towards the use of e-collar". They conducted this over a 5 day period in a kennel in Melbourne... they asked different owners when they booked in if their dogs could be used in a study... they had permission to use 16 dogs... then 8 dogs had the e-collar and 8 dogs had a fake e-collar... they conducted the test..... One dog (a GSD) was discounted from the study because it was too well trained and did not show any reaction then two Retrievers were discounted because they were so hyper and silly that they could not decifer the responses.... One dog was discounted because it was aggressive when they tried to put the collar on.... hence the study considered these dogs outside the norm.... so now the results are actually for 12 dogs..... of varied ages, breeds, cross-breed and from different home environments... no behaviour details were known of the dogs past. You have to say that this is a 'pointless' study... what possible conclusion can be drawn from this...... This was common with many of the studies on dogs I saw reported on three different days over a six month period... One study was held and used ONE dog..... sheese!.... I was very disappointed and now this makes me question many of the "findings" i see on the media or on the dog journals.....

Victoria officially introduced their Domestic Animal Business Registration nearly 3 years ago... however councils don't really have the manpower so still havent got around to checking on the existing business let alone chase up the byb or the illegal puppy mills. I finally received my certificate in March even tho I went up to the shire office and paid my fee in Sept 2012 (two and a half years to process the paperwork) and they didn't know anything about it and had to download a form off the internet! However at least the Vic Legislation is more specific about what is allowed or isn't when it comes to breeding, as well as, who is responsible for enforcing these regulations. Such as: No puppies can be advertised without the microchip number or the Domestic Animal Business Registration No Anyone with 3 or more entire bitches has to have a Domestic Animal Bus or be a member of an accepted Breed Association Members of Assoc e.g. ANKC if they have 10 or more entire bitches must have a Domestic Animal Business Reg Whereas reading the ACT paperwork provided doesn't have any definitions just that the ACT govt has the right to decide etc.... but no indications of what that actually means; how they intend to go about it; or who is responsible....so does seem a little as if it is a fluff piece just to pacify some of the noisy welfare voices.

What sort of 'Reserve' is it that you are talking about.... after all there are very few council owned 'Reserves' that have no dog allowed policy.... unless it is a childrens playground... Remember it might have a sign showing a dog with a line thru it.... but this might just mean no dogs off lead.... Perhaps you really need to ensure whether this in fact is a no dog zone..... perhaps it would be wise to ask council for clarification. I would also like to make a note about a point brought up by many here. For those who do live next to any parklands, reserves, golf courses etc. there are things you have to remember about how dogs view this adjoining fence.... often the dog will run up and down the fence near the reserve fence, as the dog believes he needs to chase the intruders away from his territory. Owners of dogs who are inclined to behave this way need to rework their fencing... it is not people wandering around the reserve that need to take responsibility for their actions, but the owner of the dog must ensure that their dog is coping with their environment. The reality is....Humans go into a reserve/gold course etc. they may be with a dog/child or anything, whether it is LEGAL for them to be in this area is irrelevant.... If a dog scales the fence and attacks or worries them... the owner of the dog is at fault.... The owner of the dog must take responsibility and then take action to ensure that this problem is solved.

One of the big failures in the ANKC system is that people cannot use the state association sites to type in a breeders prefix and registration number.... and then get information to confirm that this is a current financial member.... This would be great if ANKC breeders could use their numbers in adverts to provide the public with some peace of mind that they are dealing with a current registered breeder.

Can be confusing... The ANKC Australian Shepherd Standard states that the back leg dew claws should be removed.... however it also states that tail "if docked should be no longer than 4 inches".... what the...! Guess the ANKC just has the american standard showing for this breed... and the ANKC has not bothered to update the standards to ensure there is no reference to docking whatsoever... If anything the Aussie Shep standard should state : "no docking allowed and tails of ALL lengths are accepted". so hence no idea how the standard applies as part of the dew claws.

All rescue groups regardless of who they are or are not associated with would still have to come under the local council/shire responsibility - this means that they have to have a permit thru council. In Victoria the Dept Primary Industry (or whatever they are called now) - have brought out a Domestic Animal Business Registration - hence any boarding, training, nannies, dog walking etc have to comply, this also applies to anyone conducting rescue. Hence your first port of call should be to your local council.

One thing we should remember is we only have one side to the story... hence I would be very careful about naming the kennel online. Also important to remember that when working with animals, sometimes shit happens.... that is life... No kennel would purposely put dogs together that are an issue, however if the kennel is a big kennel there could be many different staff and perhaps one of the workers was not so careful, because after all, the dogs are from the same family and hence us kennel operators would not expect them to be such a problem. As you say you inspected the kennel and gave instructions (in writing?) in which case it would seem fair that the kennel should either - refund you the cost of boarding the dogs or refund you the cost of the vet bill. Personally as a kennel owner... if a client came with two dogs and gave instructions that the dog is not to even be in visual of each other.... I would not take that client on... I am a small kennel and if the dogs that live together are that much of an issue I don't need that headache.

I received my first GSD bitch on breeders terms in 1982... also had two litters in partnership on a co-owned bitch in the '80's... i think it was more common back then for people to put dogs and bitches out on terms and definately seemed more encouraging back then compared to some breeders terms I have heard of lately.... I use the same basic system as per what my original breeder mentor used. Bitch goes out on terms - no charge and stays in my name with VCA but resides with them. They pay all the usual costs for keeping a pet but I pay for any fees with regard to hip/elbow, dna testing etc. Bitch is also able to stay with me when no charge when in season if this suits the family. All the girls reside near me (within an hour drive) so this makes it easier... then depending on the family the bitch might come here to whelp or I go to them when the birth is imminent. If litter whelped at my home the plan is for the girl to be here a week before and stay till pups are 5-6 weeks old. If at their home and all is well then the litter will stay there for the first 2 to 3 weeks. I visit regularly to check how pups are going and we weigh and record any info needed. By 3 weeks they are ready to start feeding, this could mean that the litter and bitch come home with me... this way I can start the puppy socialising program. Bitch can then go home at 6 weeks. The litter is in my name therefore decisions on Testing, Dog, Names etc are mine - Financially I pay the costs relating to stud dog, AI, progesterone tests etc. I also buy the puppy food and any related costs to registration of pups, microchip vaccination etc. I also provide the whelping box, vet mats and playpens for the family to use. First litter belongs to me 100%... the agreement is for 5 or more puppies (surviving 48 hours).... if the litter is smaller then a second litter is done as a 50/50 deal. If there were no surviving pups then I have the chance for a litter at her next season. If the bitch has more than the 5 healthy pups I am then happy to sign the dog over and they could have the option of breeding their own litter... however if they want to breed with me in partnership that is fine and the bitch stays in my name and we go 50/50 on everything next time round. this litter will also be bred under my prefix under my system. So far had no problems...

A good puppy school is worth every penny you spend. They can help you avoid bad habits and build your pup's social skills which allows him to deal with so many different situations and build both of your ability to work with distractions But I agree with the above comments, you are best to find one with a dog trainer, not just one being run by a clinic or pet shop where can often be little more than a marketing ploy for building the clinic/wharehouse sales. Barking should not really be happening much thru classes - if a dogs mouth is going (i.e. barking, mouthing etc) then his brain is not... a good class aims to turn the dog (and humans) brain on. Find a trainer where there is ongoing classes which will allow you to build you and your dogs relationship past the basic puppy stage. Good luck

Actually read this story elsewhere from an american link - it was not her dog... she was visiting a friend who had the dog... she was unaware the dog was a danger as she didn't know the history... she is not just suing the Dog Psychology Centre but also the owner of the dog, Caesar Milan himself and the original Rescue Group. Note that this dog has previously attacked and the courts had sentenced the dog to be put down, but a rescue group intervened and then attempted to rehabilitate. The Dog Psychology Centre had agreed to take the dog and not to release the dog until it was deemed safe. Sounds as if there is a case to be looked into..... www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2941400/Dog-Whisperer-star-Cesar-Millan-sued-Florida-nurse-savagely-attacked-pit-bull-left-training-center-just-days-earlier.html

4 tablespoons of mixed food plus dry food... does seem a great deal for an older 4 kilos dog.... I suspect at that amount they won't remain at 4 kg.... they would end up heavier.... We just use the individual dog as a gauge... they need a waistline... and just enough to cover their ribs.... We have many come into the kennels who are fat and soft and vets are usually recommending they get the weight off..... We give small meals mixed with grated carrot and loads of exercise and even little dogs will trim down a little.

Sounds like another good reason to NOT desex dogs before 12 months.... let all the development happen without interfering.....

Might be worth shopping around more for prices.... Does seem expensive when you have multiple pets for an extended stay. I run a kennel and if I had an enquiry such as yours this is how I would calculate provided this was not over the xmas school holidays 1 x dog @ $25/d 3 x cat @ $15 each per day Equals $70 per day x 25 days = $1,750 Less discount for multiple pets of 10% Plus would also give a further discount of 5% for over 3 weeks. Hence cost of $1,750 - $304 = $ 1,446.00 This is a BIG difference to the charges you have been quoted of $2,200. Most business are more flexible when there are clients needing longer times and have multiple pets... Animals are easier to look after once they settle in hence we give a discount and multiple pets mean that the animals can often be sharing the day pens, plus our cats have large rooms with different sleeping areas so we could easily accomodate three cats in a room. The same will apply with kennels in your state, so shop around and see what is on offer. Then go and check out the kennel..... Kennels are a better option for pets unless you have a house sitter you feel really comfortable with and know they love animals.... At least the kennel is set up with the right facilities to keep them well contained and regularly fed and watered. Good luck

do you really care what they think... you made your decisions be happy with it.

It is easy to assume our dogs love us.... but perhaps we have to remember there can be a difference how some personalities of dogs react to us.... the same applies with how different humans relate to each other.... 'Love' can be a very personal thing. I always think of having mutual respect as the base for our relationships... human, dog, horse etc...... I don't like to crowd my animals and force my presence on them... instead I provide an invitation for closeness and then give them the chance to move in for more..... Perhaps it may take a little longer but usually it is a much more honest way of dealing with the different personalities.... they have a chance to get to know me as I get to know them.... Working with horses teaches us how to be patient in showing affection.... after raising a few very young horses I often feel very honoured at the trust they hand to me.... even during the Black Saturday fires with helicopters overhead and waterpumps blasting.... my horses remained calm and focused on us humans.... My advice is to be happy to sit back and observe animals and let them guide you to what they are ready to offer..... It is amazing how quickly relationships build when they are not forced.

The object of these discussions is for people to learn and consider things from different points of view.... hence why I feel a need to respond as this is something I have experience (and very few have been thru this situation).... Owners supply crates.... mmmm seem a good idea.... but you have to understand the logistics.... This does not solve the problem of storing these crates ..... if left in the dogs pen we actually then reduce the space the dog has .... or else a nightmare for cleaning ..... plus staff having to lug various sized crates around .... Also who is responsible for any damage to crate (particularly the expensive soft sided crates). We already have to try to keep track of pets blankets toys and then some people bring their own food that requires organising and refrigeration...... often when people do bring crates they might be tied together with rope or tape which is fine for a quick trip but not for an emergency situation. PipSqueak made a very valid point that you have to think of the weight of dog and crate... plus the room they take.... plus different styles of crates don't always stack up on each other and fold down styles of crates are not strong enough for an emergency situation.... Also would need to carry water bowls for each dog that need constantly filling up as they keep getting knocked over therefore large amounts of water must also be carted and food and first aid. So perhaps there are good ideas.... but how do you allow for OH&S regulations and have enough staff (volunteer or paid) on hand 24/7 for fire danger days to lift, carry, and fit into the volley of vehicles needed and drive out.... Hence would mean that I couldn't take any dog bigger than a small spaniel......what about the dogs who are in panic and won't budge or try to run off... so finally a couple of hour later we might be loaded up and off we go.... To where?.... and how long? ....... As I am sure many Kennel Owners do care......Personally we do take responsibility for our charges as we treat the kennel dogs the same as we treat our own.... I would hazard a guess that a big Corporate Company would not have the same emotional attachment to their charges that us smaller owners do regardless of location and fire plan.... besides thats what their expensive insurance policy is for... but as stated before..... each emergency situation is unique hence difficult to create rules..... and remember kennels in suburban areas are still at risk of an emergency.... as are Pet/House Sitters.... as are Visiting Pet Services..... as are Vet Clinics... as are breeders with say 10 or more dogs..... as are dog owners who are away at work and cannot get back to their own home..... Our clients know where we are located and they all come up to the pens to drop off and collect hence they know our setup... but remember, there is also a responsibility on the part of the dog owners to understand and ask questions and if they are not happy with the situation then they can choose to find alternatives....

Anyone thinking of pet insurance then you should watch the ABC show 'The Checkout' which was on Wednesday 14th Jan at 6pm. You can often find these shows online..... Made some very interesting points of what is or isn't accepted by the policies... Note there are only two insurance underwriters even tho there are many companies offering policies.

[/quote Christina] It is not a huge cost & no need to upgrade existing kennel for every dog or cat boarded to have an empty crate in case of evacuation, some even come in with their own crate. A vehicle & trailer & reliable & pre organised help from neighbours/friends is a good plan. I am not saying it is easy to move a lot of animals but large numbers of people are moved in emergencies like schools & other institutions & they usually have a practised fire drill. It is because bushfire is unpredictable that forethought is needed. There is almost always prior news & knowledge & warnings given when fire is in your area or heading that way so better safe than sorry. I always had a fire plan for my family even when living in a house in the city & explained it to my children. Nothing is 100% but having some kind of action plan & using it is a wise decision not a financial one. Christina.... you have absolutely NO idea of what is involved in moving a large number of dogs.... If you had read my earlier post of having actually been thru this exact situation perhaps... just perhaps.... you might have an inclining of what a kennel owner might have to go thru.... Consider a kennel with perhaps 100 dogs - hence 100 crates of varied sizes... where the f$#^ would we store this amount of crates... then perhaps 40 cats with another 40 crates... this would require a shed for crate storage... consider that 2 crates take up space of approx 1 cubic metre... we would need a shed that is about 10 metres x 5 metres.... we would then need a 6 tonne truck which requires an endorsed license... or alternatively perhaps 12 four wheel drives and 12 large sized dog trailers. We now need to have perhaps 2 hours of time with a minimum of 25 staff on hand to load and move these animals.... and accurate information of where the fire is coming from because we don't want to risk driving the wrong way and heading into the fire where we cant turn around because WE ARE ALL TOWING TRAILERS.... and then were the hell do we go where it will be safe for all these people and dogs and cats..... Getting neighbours to help... goodness me don't they also have their hands full in a fire situation... volunteers - trouble is there are often road blocks.... no volunteers can get in to help anyway..... SHEESE some people just don't get it... financial cost is important.... I love dogs...but I run a business I do have to be cost effective otherwise I could not provide the service I do.... or would you have me double or triple my fees to cover the extras and then I would have to hope that enough families could actually then still afford to kennel their dogs when they are on holidays/in hospital/having renovations/moving house etc.....

OsSwift.... don't complain about your regulations in WA... consider these points... BOARDING REGULATIONS The newish Government Regs brought out for Boarding or Training are really a joke.... written by a bunch of public servants sitting around a table drinking coffee and coming up with "oh! what a good idea lets add that to the rules" attitude - then they hand the enforcing of this off to another bunch of public servants (namely local council officers) who then get to interpete these regulations to decide what is acceptable and what is not... In reality there are people like us... who might have 10-20 years of running boarding kennels and working hands on daily with dogs for years..... we have to spend time and money trying to comply with these little hitlers interpretations..... and yet we are the ones who understand how and what might work best.... Regulations cannot really take in all the different situations that might occur when working with animals... for example: You cannot regulate a bushfire....as we have already seen in this discussion the manner of a bushfire is unpredictable hence the action that is needed can vary hugely.... However the danger being that existing business can be forced out due to the costs of upgrading... Hence we will end up with some large company setting up factory type boarding arrangements in an industrial zone... Mind you...these are possibly the ones giving the public servants the information for the current regs in Victoria.... Which just happen to suit the set up arrangements they have constructed. The smaller boarding kennels are pushed out... hence we end up with limited options when it comes to choosing a kennel plus the big corporate group can start to increase their fees... Consider the smaller kennel currently might offer pens of 10-20 sqm per dog and charge $25-28 per day whilst the big industrial facility offers the regulation minimum 4.5sqm per dog and charges $36 per day. Personally, I will continue to operate the way I do.... but likely within 5-10 years I will have to get out because I will get sick of the government intervention.... there will be many like me..... so many kennels just close down instead of having to spend fortune to comply... no new small boarding business forming due to difficulty of regulations... hence I predict the following within 10 years. WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR BOARDING Small kennels disappear means limited choice for dog owners... Costs increase dramatically as surviving kennels have higher outgoings.... Large Business take over the pet industry hence we loose the personal touch that many owners prefer. Cost of boarding dogs becomes out of the pocket of many families... which means they might have to choose not to have a dog Perhaps Pet Sitting becomes a bigger business to fill the gap... however how do you develop the safety and fire compliance for these business.... dogs left home alone in bushfire areas means many dead dogs.... also storms in regions mean fences down houses damaged... dogs get out..... Hope I am wrong....

Okay... I'm browsing thru these posts... to some extent I'm not surprised at how many judgement calls are being made about how people should have done certain things....... frankly there are many online experts out there who think they know what others should do..... I shall make some points and perhaps I am one of the most relevant to discuss this here as I am in the position to be somewhat an expert on this situation so hopefully I shall give some of you food for thought and consideration how to handle things in relation to bushfire...etc.... I run a boarding kennel in a rural location near bush...We went thru the 2009 Black Saturday Fires...Fire came 500 metres from our property.. We survived as did all our charges... FIRE RISK IN BOARDING KENNELS Firstly, remember most kennels are not in the suburbs... Councils don't allow that hence these business operate in either semi rural or industrial areas...don't think that the major risk of fire in a boarding kennel is from bush fire... ALL kennels could be at risk of fire.... consider any one of the large kennels who carry 200-300 dogs perhaps in factory style settings... loads of concrete so you might think this is safe.... however they have insulation, plastic, electric circuits, air conditions, freezers, all of which are combustable and capable of producing toxic smoke and fire... they might cater to huge number of animals even on multiple storey perhaps they have fire sprinkers, perhaps these work perhaps not.... Factories burn down all the time even tho they have sprinkers.... and remember it is not likely the fire will kill the dogs but the lack of oxygen and the smoke... Remember too that the staff cannot be expected to keep rushing back into a burning building to put their own lives at risk to save the dogs and cats..... OH&S won't accept that. EVACUATION OF KENNELS Someone mentioned that a kennel should have a truck with compartments set up to evacuate dogs on days of high risk...... Consider what and how evacuate means. * Kennel then need someone with a heavy duty driving license available 24/7 to meet the need.... difficult but not impossible... * We are not allowed to transport dogs in an open crate type arrange (cattle truck environment) must be an enclosed truck.... cost perhaps $150,000 to fit out a truck with insulated cages and don't forget the airconditioning - that would sit in the driveway just for that possible situation... * Even if you had the truck.... say 200 dogs and 40 cats...you would say 6 staff to load the dogs one by one... plus perhaps 3 people with 20 cat boxes to jam the cats into just to load....this could take a few hours.... remember you have stressed people and stressed dogs.... you don't want any dogs getting out during the loading or else you will have people critise.... * Where do you evacuate to and for how long.... the local hall? or the local football ground? * Ohhhh don't forget we need to make sure we have adequate food to cope and staff to handle the workload. * What level of fire risk do you need to evacuate. HIGH, EXTREME... (in which case I might have had to evacuate perhaps 3 times already and its only Jan 5). * So lets imagine we have succeeded in loading all our charges into a vehicle/truck whatever... and we are driving out.... which way is the safe way to drive... REAL LIFE SITUATION When a fire is in the region.... suddenly all the best laid plans can fall apart.... perhaps the first real indication of imminent risk is when the town water is turned off.... also perhaps the power has gone... landline is also gone... which means internet is unreliable... we didn't have even a TV to see whats going on out in the rest of the world. Even the mobile phone reception becomes irratic.... hence we check out the web site for CFA .... it is not accurate... by the website we were already charcole. Truth be known I don't have time to monitor the website anyway as I am busy filling up water buckets to place in the pens and jam as many dogs into the safest building as possible.... My staff and friends can't even get in to help as there are roadblocks stopping them coming..... so its just me, hubby and two teenage kids.... We spend the day filling up the petrol pumps at the dam...manning the fire pumps and wetting down the gardens around the building to prevent spot fires.... bringing the horses close to the house.... locking our own dogs and cats into a building.... filling washing machines, sinks and baths in the house and piling up blankets, towels and mops for the ready. Taking a quick drive to check with neighbours and luckily one of them is out on a motor bike and bringing back news of where the actual fire is located as the CFA scanner is just people reporting heresay information that was pretty inaccurate. All was going well, we were prepared.... 4 pumps... loads of water..... helicopters flying overhead all day collecting water from lake behind our property.... BUT THEN... darkness falls.... everything looks different... helicopters are now grounded and information gets worse..... WHAT HAPPENS AFTER... We are locked in for the next three days.... if we leave we can't get back.... so we knuckle down with no power... no refrigeration.... only the bbq to cook the defrosting food which we can feed ourselves and the dogs.... at night we can't risk using the generator as we are now low on petrol for pumps. POLICE OR COUNCIL.... We had only ourselves .l... this was for three days until I drove out to get food, batteries, fuel and bottled water, then had to drive back thru a new roadblock by just ignoring the police and driving around.... Don't even get me started on Councils.... they were all out creating almost a party mood at the refuge centre... hosting visiting celebs and media and patting each other on the back about how good the community was doing... yet NOT ONE COUNCIL officer bothered to drive thru our residential village to see who was alive or to bring much needed fuel, food, water... or even just to see if we were alive... and we were a community of approx 500 homes and they are the ones who have the voting register of who lives where....sheese! WHERE FROM HERE We would still stay... we have a good location... we know our area and how the fire system works....we have well built solid kennels where dogs won't be locked in with smoke as their biggest enemy... we have loads of water and pumps.... but even so.... there are many things that we have to rely on for luck.... Note: this is the only response I intend to make... if people want to judge so be it.... I guess you can't account for the uninformed comments such as a previous poster has mentioned.

Just mated one of our blue merle girls for her first litter..... fingers crossed pups due about 3/3/15

We had 6 baby aussies see in the new year.... unfortunately 2 were weak and did not last - still four strong pups rolling around the whelping box makes me happy... Alfoxton Q Litter is now - 1 black tri girl, 2 blue merle girls and 1 blue merle boy

Just a side note.... 4 years ago I went to a Dog Conference in USA and then two years ago my daughter and I bought tickets to Europe - these were paid from my rainy day account.... and I still have $5,000 in this account.... but perhaps I've been lucky.... besides you can always talk your vet down in prices when they know you don't have insurance.... and I don't have any shocks to discover what might be excluded by the cover....