asal

Found this link, no idea about the year of publication Of particular interest is the Chapter 8, titled Taints http://web.archive.org/web/20080314202407/http://www.netherworld.com/~cowboy/SelectiveInbreedingMenu.html and this comment by a bird breeder sums up his experience Too much to read just now.....so I'll just make a couple of observations....In horses : when done well....it works well....it simply limits the gene pool to either favourable or unfavourable outcomes....or a mixture of both. You need to know your lines well. In Birds : I bred Colour mutations in Gouldian Finches & Neophema Parrots. Many new colour genes are recessive, thus seemingly pop out of nowhere as nobody keeps pedigrees, except myself......other than a couple of generations. When they do occur, the majority inbreed (Father to daughter, mother to son & brother to sister to give the best chance of breeding the mutation. Alongside that is a major failing in all breeders systems & that is the "Hospital cage" & all sorts of medications for sick birds....I learned early that these birds got sick again, failed to breed or died....very heartbreaking....so I decided to use "natural selection" ( now this is not for the queezy or fanatical "lovers" of all living things), but when I had a sick bird...I euthanased it. Now....guess what....my birds stopped dying, they bred frequently & prolifically into old age......AD this to the inbreeding & we had birds with very poor survival rates & birds that never bred or did so unsuccessfully. This led to the talk that mutations were weak & certain species were weak....what was weak was their management. Hope that little ramble is of interest."

its easier to remove the lot. no fiddling, was the reason I believe. my mum decided she wanted her two done because they kept jumping on each other, both females, tried to convince her its a dominance game but she wouldnt listen. so they were both done and guess what they still did to the day they died of old age. wasnt safe to say told u so though

Never seen this before. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2016/07/27/neutering-spaying-effects.aspx?utm_source=petsnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160727Z3&et_cid=DM112138&et_rid=1589967958

sure is. very frightening where things are going. The Four Corners program was horrifying enough, children young as 11 locked up for stealing a car and treated so cruelly, children in solatary not even allowed to attend any form of schooling or interaction. If their parents did that corrective services would have taken their child away. then we see Australian story, a teenage girl is denied the right to go to finish school, taken from her husband and her now family to flown wherever the immigration dept decides, agree to be deported or imprisoned as for those in charge of her, just as inhuman as the prison guards in Four Corners really, she and her husband cant even hug if they can prevent it, not even allowed to have the flowers he brought for her. This is Australia today? We now have prison camps where the criminals have more human rights than that poor girl and the other refugees with her. Yes some are possibly isis infiltrators but that's no excuse to mentally destroy anyone surely. I am ashamed of Australia if this kind of cruelty is ok and sanctioned by the politicians that just got themselves elected and remember this is the lot who have refused her sanctuary already. are only acting now after the 4 corners expose of the children!. they have been in govt long enough to know whats going on, thank goodness for the abc or nothing would still have been done for those kids. Barring banding together finally, and shout NO, DEMAND and VOTE for those who will not sell us out. on so many fronts or we will be seeing Lhok has pretty accurately lined up the future on that scene too. Just have to mention, none of the asylum seekers imprisoned here are ISIS infiltrators, terrorists don't sit in a prison for three years being tortured. If you look at terrorist stats they are on the whole home grown. Australia is going to poo on many different levels and all that freedom we love is being taken away. I agree that something needed to be done about the rogues in the racing industry but now look what is happening. How do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Now you won't be able to own a sighthound if you own cats. People have to leave the state or give up their pets. you could be forgiven to thinking to govt must think they might be how else on earth can they justify the treatment, they have less rights than convicted murderer's?

sure is. very frightening where things are going. The Four Corners program was horrifying enough, children young as 11 locked up for stealing a car and treated so cruelly, children in solatary not even allowed to attend any form of schooling or interaction. If their parents did that corrective services would have taken their child away. then we see Australian story, a teenage girl is denied the right to go to finish school, taken from her husband and her now family to flown wherever the immigration dept decides, agree to be deported or imprisoned as for those in charge of her, just as inhuman as the prison guards in Four Corners really, she and her husband cant even hug if they can prevent it, not even allowed to have the flowers he brought for her. This is Australia today? We now have prison camps where the criminals have more human rights than that poor girl and the other refugees with her. Yes some are possibly isis infiltrators but that's no excuse to mentally destroy anyone surely. I am ashamed of Australia if this kind of cruelty is ok and sanctioned by the politicians that just got themselves elected and remember this is the lot who have refused her sanctuary already. are only acting now after the 4 corners expose of the children!. they have been in govt long enough to know whats going on, thank goodness for the abc or nothing would still have been done for those kids. Barring banding together finally, and shout NO, DEMAND and VOTE for those who will not sell us out. on so many fronts or we will be seeing Lhok has pretty accurately lined up the future on that scene too.

I see what you mean but as I said above, polcing our own is fraught with difficulties. Since when were men told police your own and stop rape and pedophilia or you will all be castrated? since when have we been told police your own or you will all be jailed in case you murder? Steal a car, rob a house, commit corporate crime, the list is endless. Since when did it become everyone's fault and accountability for those who commit a crime? Thats what the police are there for, arrest the perpetrator, not everyone living within a ten K area, same thing, conviction by association in that case in the general area . not hold the entire population accountable or everyone cops the sentence. That's what we are being duped into if you aren't taking it in. since when does having an animal of any kind mean you must be responsible for the actions of every other who has? Is every married man held responsible for not ending domestic violence? Or could be jailed for inaction against those who do? Every woman held responsible for not ending child abuse? or she loses the right to keep her own child? why fall for something that pits all animal owners against each other? If you don't stand together and demand a entire group should not be punished for the misdeeds of some. you not only don't know but never knew or met, Thats how AR is dividing and conquering. Its been a slow progress, I can remember when The campaign began in the 80's, a whole new word game began, setting breeder against breeder and when did Peta begin, March 1980, its been a long time but they have little by little bit by bit pitted one against the other. very successfully Even crazier many of the laws being passed, the ankc's are agreeing to and implementing aren't even in the best interests of the dogs, ask any reproduction vet. But hey thats what happens when the ones in the decision making process are AR reps with no or too few with actual knowledge. Just read the conditions for keeping them in the code of practice, its the blueprint for puppy farming. Concrete kennels and pens, can be charged for keeping them in your home?

I don't see it as cut and dried as you. I know to not agree is to mean you are a bad person which is how so many who would ask questions are silenced. I once had a man come and wanted to buy every guinea pig youngster I had for sale, this was about 1960 and I was well aware many greyhound trainers used live animals . Immediately suspicious I told him they had all be sold and my brother followed him, he had parked over the hill so his car was out of sight and sure enough there were two greyhounds in the back. equally I knew people even then who had greyhounds who never did this. Unlike you I fail to see why all should be punished for the behavior of others. what is wrong with our community today that everyone involved with animals can be collateral damage even though they never offended to eliminate those who do. isn't it a bit like castrate all men because a significant percentage commit rape and domestic violence ? It is the same mentality. Why has it come about that if you have animals you somehow have abrogated your rights to innocent until proven guilty that the rest of the non pet owning public are entitled too? Martin Clunes is on ABC now.

gee that took quite some effort. good on em.

the dogs are already loose among the goats? too late to roll back that if objections are lodged now. depending on how much they like goat shredding they could be wiped out in weeks or months thats the only unknown at this juncture

Everyone does have the right to a drivers L but I don't have my right removed because someone else shows they are not capable of the responsibility. You assume that the other 80% had enough information and evidence to do something about it or that if THEY did try to do something about it that the governing body would respond. I can front up right now to the ANKC and tell them someone is breeding dogs with conformation so bad that their dogs are suffering and they will laugh at me.i can say this here on this forum and I will be told that its O.K. because the breed wasn't meant to run around the block. You can place this type of evaluation onto any group which has little or no or little outside accountability. Actually it does happen with licenses, Ls and Ps are placed on restrictions, they can't have I think it's 8 cylinder vehicles in some states, the same rules don't apply, so yes their rights are restricted by the actions of a few which amounted to a critical mass, not every P plater can't handle the power of a V8 but enough of them couldn't that it was decided they all shouldn't drive one until they have sufficient experience. As a group they behave and as a group they are judged, as they say, no one ever said that life was fair. And it's as a group we have the power, the 80% can and do have the power to change things. I see it all the time in dressage, high level riders yanking and kicking and basically showing off the worst of the sport for the world to see, and the rest of us tut tut and say "what can we do?", they are at the top we are at the bottom, but without us paying our fees and supporting our little comps and buying the products with their names on them they are nothing, nobodies. We do have power. but they wring their hands and cough up their membership because they want to be able to compete, instead of shunning ea and join something else. as for voting, ea has it sewn up the articles of association, the board is unaccountable now.

I don't have an objection to regulation but there's an awful lot of regulation already. Other posters have pointed out that GRNSW is a NSW Government body, which automatically deletes it from the self-regulation category anyway. Where was GRNSW in this? Pedigree dog breeders belong to their state ANKC body. Has a Code of Ethics but it is not a regulatory body. Dog breeders have to comply with whatever state laws there are about dog breeding so where is self-regulation in this? State bodies are, at best, just dog clubs. They have no policing powers whatsoever. I don't think there is a lot of regulation, there are plenty of laws which are rarely enforced (until the shit hits the fan), there are government bodies increasingly looking to outsource these responsibilities, and there are a lot of little groups coming under the umbrella of "industry". While the dog clubs are their own entities they still come under this umbrella as far as public and government perception is concerned. Certainly there are links, some clubs are linked to some sports and showing more so than others, everyone uses the same services such as vets and products, that's what makes it an industry. Ideally we want to have an industry representative group which covers all canine pursuits, everyone contributes and everyone helps to keep the industry clean. Just as farmers contribute to their industry groups even though the way the different sectors operate may be very different and subject to very different pressures, an example of this may be something like meat and livestock Australia. Feels like there is a lot of regulation to me - little of which has to do with the science of the species but more and more as if dogs are humans. We have to make constant choice on best practice over regulation and the younger people coming through are educated by taking for granted that because its a law or a regulation it must be what is best for the dogs. I dont agree with self regulation when some groups are offered exemptions from behaving like the rest of the "industry" Greyhound racing was and is in most states still a prime example of this and even though it was sanctioned by state governments it was policed and regulated by their own board. They had their own codes which counteracted state codes all breeders have to comply with and complaints are kept and dealt with in house. Vicdogs is similar in Victoria as their breeders who own less than 10 fertile dogs have exemptions to having to comply with breeding codes . this is why the MDBA will not apply for these exemptions for our members until some things are changed within the system. The RSPCA and AWL have no third party accountability and if you have complaint about any of them it is also handled in house. Bit the same as the church with complaints of sex crimes. yes and you know where that gets you, CEO or a Cardinals or Archbishops hat

Apparently the landscape is not conducive to shooting , either on foot or aerial ? anyhow , it's on LANDLINE at noon today . I am 90 % certain that my brother & his dogs could manage the task . His dogs are used to finding goats- he is a qualified shooter ..... I have a strange feeling this experiment once aired today , will attract an awful lot more negative attention, and may not be completed ... its already fait accomplai. they show you them turning them loose on the island. weird isnt it, fine for those goats to be torn to pieces (just check out the horrific photos of dingo attacks on flocks for yourself) yet beyond disgusting when a 80% suffer the same penalty for the offending 20% percentage of greyhound owners ??? and used to justify everyone guilty and shut down all who have racing greyhounds in this state? then we have Wrans daughter charged as an accessory to murder because she knocked n the door and sheltered a felon. Yet isnt that exactly what the clergy up to and including cardinals and nary an accessory charge is pending in that quarter. But dog owners with the same interests and breed of dog as the offending 20% are tried convicted and sentanced without even a hearing let alone appeal if the powers can block it. skewed world we live in

excellent point. look at the wonderful job the churches has done to "police our own" on the pedophile front. about time they were shut down too.

It only takes a heartbeat to take away people's rights - people who have never shown any sign of being party to any of this - thats 80% of them and how do you justify them having the right to find them new homes or sell them interstate rather than killing them as better for the dogs? can only wonder if its a case of don't care, as long is its not your rights that have been signed away. Then the fat would fly but same scenario here, those unaffected will just look on and say hey they brought it on themselves then too. As someone who owns and loves animals I do care very much, and I worry that my right to own them wil be taken away, but that doesn't negate the reality, nor does it make it ok for others to abuse animals while I sat back. I do what I can but it takes a majority, so I try to convince people that this is all our responsibility. Each of us every time we hear about someone doing the wrong thing but are afraid to speak up because they are more powerful, they are more respected, but they are the ones who will bring us all down so now is the time to act against them. but you do feel that the 80% are just collateral damage for the good of the bigger picture. Continue to pander to Peta no matter what name they are under you will be next, divide and conquer is what is happening. Watch Landline today especially the Sheep farmer in England. He loves his sheep, his job but as he said the city is so distanced from the farm they have no idea whats going on, the quest for cheap food means the small caring farmers cant survive, the farmers arent the only losers, their stock living a quality of life they will never experience once the whole thing is replaced by factory farms. his comment about the australian and NZ dairy industry was spot on. gone are the family farms where the cattle had paddocks and crops to graze and play in with people who knew every animals name. There were over 17,000 in new south wales alone, until as he pointed out politicans went the deregulation road, family farms fell and continue to fall like ninepin's and now even the factory farms are struggling to survive and whats at the bottom of the cutting costs chain? the cows.

I had no idea either. never knew anyone with one. a local here loves great danes and none of the 4 she has had have lived long enough to celebrate their 6th birthday although one was one day short of her 6th when she too died in her sleep. yet a daughters friend had hers to 14? He was huge, so tall he could rest his head on the counter top for a nap watching the preparation for a party and could look straight down into the food on display for the party goers. but he knew no touchie although it was a bit disconcerting. he could easily sneeze on it

It only takes a heartbeat to take away people's rights - people who have never shown any sign of being party to any of this - thats 80% of them and how do you justify them having the right to find them new homes or sell them interstate rather than killing them as better for the dogs? can only wonder if its a case of don't care, as long is its not your rights that have been signed away. Then the fat would fly but same scenario here, those unaffected will just look on and say hey they brought it on themselves then too.

It only takes a heartbeat to take away people's rights - people who have never shown any sign of being party to any of this - thats 80% of them and how do you justify them having the right to find them new homes or sell them interstate rather than killing them as better for the dogs? can only wonder if its a case of don't care, as long is its not your rights that have been signed away. Then the fat would fly but those unaffected will just look on and say they brought it on themselves then too.

Well Im not outraged but why is it better for the R.... to take them and put them down when the breeders are perfectly capable of taking them to their own vets and doing the same thing? That wasn't what I was meaning, the outrage part was because of the comment section of the link. I also think that breeder/trainer/owner should be allowed to made decisions for their own dogs in that regard. --Lhok except for the fact that obviously they are not allowed to make decisions for their own dogs now. look at the outrage of the disclosure of the mass grave of less than 100 dogs in was it five years? It read shot or bludgened, if every one had been shot then there should have been no cause for outrage, well unless its now only the ..... allowed to shoot/euth stock anymore. its euth when they pull the trigger if you arent aware of that. no mass outraged at the 58,000 or so yearly put down by the r.... even to my awful maths that over 300,000 dogs? dont even look at the cats. although they incinerate them at yagoona, read somewhere many end up in land fill from other branches. doesn't compute when looked at from that angle all to much but look on the bright side. thousands less dogs born and bred to be loved by the vast majority of their owners and perfect result for peta. I'm sitting on the fence with this debate BUT I can tell you what DOES compute - 15% euth rates nationally (RSPCA published dog figures) vs 58% (Greyhound Australasia estimated dog figures). Yes there are other issues. so nuke the lot ? NO thought or care of the thousands who don't end up in those stats or those who love and care for them. nuke em too on the grounds of the greater good? whats really doing my head in is nuke the greyhounds to protect them even if it means so protected they die. yet its fine to dump 4 dingos onto an island hoping they euthanasia/sounds so much nicer (than tear them to bits doesn't it?) all the feral goats there and what is their reward? they will die due to a late release implant

Ok? subject of another thread. BUT. its ok to end greyhound racing because 20% have not followed the rules. the grey hound industry and probably most of the dogs involved is to die because some cant be honest, a percentage are put down. then theres the dingo v goats on island story yet its perfectly fine to turn 4 dingo's loose on an island to kill out the feral goats AND implant the poor buggers with a delayed release poison?

Well Im not outraged but why is it better for the R.... to take them and put them down when the breeders are perfectly capable of taking them to their own vets and doing the same thing? That wasn't what I was meaning, the outrage part was because of the comment section of the link. I also think that breeder/trainer/owner should be allowed to made decisions for their own dogs in that regard. --Lhok except for the fact that obviously they are not allowed to make decisions for their own dogs now. look at the outrage of the disclosure of the mass grave of less than 100 dogs in was it five years? It read shot or bludgened, if every one had been shot then there should have been no cause for outrage, well unless its now only the ..... allowed to shoot/euth stock anymore. its euth when they pull the trigger if you arent aware of that. no mass outraged at the 58,000 or so yearly put down by the r.... even to my awful maths that over 300,000 dogs? dont even look at the cats. although they incinerate them at yagoona, read somewhere many end up in land fill from other branches. doesn't compute when looked at from that angle all to much but look on the bright side. thousands less dogs born and bred to be loved by the vast majority of their owners and perfect result for peta.

I doubt it. Only about 50% of dogs in this country are registered, vaccinated or microchipped. What on earth makes people think that a law (which won't be resourced for enforcement) will make an ounce of difference to people who don't obey the laws now. It will penalise responsible people and their dogs and do SFA to stem the flow into pounds I'd say. Time will tell. time has already told, its been some 20 years since microchipping came in by now and hasnt it been mandatory to register for over 16 years now? the stats are still the same olthough far fewer are being bred by the registered traceable breeders since they have been regulated into halving how many puppies they could breed in any one year. so whats next? stop em altogether and call that drop in numbers a win and ignore the untracables?

I just realised something odd. Baird is going to save greyhound "wastage" by shutting down the racing in nsw right? Tb breeders are heading for the same micromanagement to shut down "wastage" this this same government wants to shoot 5,000 brumbies in Kosiosko National park. Not allow their capture and rehoming, just blast em with high power rifles because its more humane? is it just me who is confused by this, are some less equal than others somehow?

thanks, always suspected that but never knew for sure so few were interested in those days ie, prior 2000 Well these days all you need to do is get your breeding dogs DNA swabbed and tested for it and you can make sure it doesn't show again while you also get to enjoy blue dogs. used to look at weimariners and felt miffed they are fine why cant the blue gene chi's all be too, their breeders had obviously deleted the problem long ago.

thanks, always suspected that but never knew for sure so few were interested in those days ie, prior 2000 Well these days all you need to do is get your breeding dogs DNA swabbed and tested for it and you can make sure it doesn't show again while you also get to enjoy blue dogs. my neighbor has a cute little lilac chihuahua not a hint of alopecia although looking at him I realised ive never seen a shortcoat chihuahua with alopecia even in the case of full siblings, it was only the long coat puppies that it popped up in. At the time I was discussing it with my vet I mentioned that and his reply was I should see the coats on some of his doberman, rotti and staffies all smoothcoats and one of his worst cases was a roly dog. but for myself ive never seen an affected smoothcoat? harder to express or just lucky? passed on your news about the dna test to a friend who has the blue gene in her dogs and asked to to thank you. made the comment she was at a vets the other day with an emergency delivery and on the other table was a blue fawn dog with the typical alopecia skin and coat. asked her vet whay was it out cold, to be told he was going to take skin plugs and scrapings to see what it had. she was pretty astonished he didnt know blue gene alopecia when he saw it?

yes yours are so pretty, well to you anyway