asal

the chocolate gene is also a dilution gene but its entirely seperate on a different locus. hence why a puppy can be both blue and chocolate and visually present as the ultra light lilac. the chocolate dilution does not develop alopecia, although it is quite subject to fading from sun exposure two blue genes on a black or a black and tan dog gives you a blue or blue and tan dog with a blue instead of a black nose. two blue genes on a sable or a fawn gives you a blue sable or a blue fawn, which presents as a pale golden with blue tips in the case of the sable or simply a blue sheen in the otherwise golden coat. both will have blue instead of black noses. Stringy is a blue fawn and you can see his lighter nose colour compared to his sister Lace and the golden girl Dancer. oops forgot to mention, dancer is yes a golden, but she is also a double chocolate which cannot express on a gold dog, but her nose does express it, her nose is chocolate instead of black. hence so many golden labradors who do not have a black nose. they are actually disguised chocolates hidden by their gold coat. only their nose is the giveaway What breed are you talking about here as this is all incorrect for border collies. at the beginning I listed some of the breeds my vet said. as others commented they haven't seen it in greyhounds and I can say neither have I but after I did learn about the 1 in 4 average in the breeds he told me , did wonder if the alopecia was not actually linked to the blue gene itself but an alle that piggy backs on some and isn't passed onto others, hence the 3 unaffected. If only unaffected were bred from would it cease to appear. My vet could not find any research on this so no idea or where to find out if such research has been done. but then many blues are born from carrier parents so no way to select for non alopecia in the blue carrying parent/parents as they arent blue so coats ok anyway

Scary how fast this was done, hope all greyhound owners are warned to keep their dogs safe if they travel with them then.

so it may not comes as such a suprise then that a friend who breeds, trains and races her own thouroughbreds recently received notification from henceforth she can no longer move any of her horses from one paddock to another, not even on her own property, to take to the vet or anywhere else for that matter without notifying the AJC of the intention of doing so. (I think she said but dont quote me on it till I recheck with her) She didnt mention what the penalty for non compliance will be. she cannot euthanase any of her stock regardless of the severity of injury, or even dispose of a body, not even a stillborn foal without reporting first to a body whose sole supposed purpose is the administration of Thoroughbred Racing in this country? What is going on by stealth? anyone notice a whiff of Peta in the breeze ? or is it just imagination?

Read Jed. I knew nothing of what Jed knows but I can smell Peta a mile off. beware peoples.

It's most people, including most breeders. You'd think most pet owners would be in favour of higher standards of breeder care and health testing. So why do they keep buying puppy farm dogs? Because 'registered breeders' ie, ANKC member body, and their members, come across as exclusive, which they are, by the very nature of the membership. They go and buy puppy farm dogs because those breeders work within the larger less exclusive environment of 'most people' I'm not saying it's great, just saying that it is that way 'Registered breeders' need to find ways to become less exclusive and more involved with 'most people' .. If they don't at best they will just remain their own little exclusive environment with little meaning to most people, at worst they will cease to exist because of the pressure of 'most people'.......which in the interests of staying on topic, is pretty much what has happened to greyhound racing NSW They go and buy puppy farm dogs because they can get one from them - because there is no where near enough bred by ANKC registered breeders to fill the demand. Sure some wont like how some registered breeders make the process harder but most of us don't in fact lots of us will sell to anyone without a care in the world about where they are going. For now the environment [ the general public] is as desensitised to the way a particular breed characteristic makes the dogs they choose suffer as the people who are breeding them are. Registered breeders who are breeding them are a drip in the ocean of the rest who are breeding them. The other bit of the environment wants less dogs to suffer because of how they are selected and it gets bigger and louder every day. The strategy from every one breeding them and owning them is denial whether they are pedigreed or not and until there is an acknowledgment that its a problem and it needs to be dealt with its a threat to the status quo - but Im curious as to how such a small minority ecxclusib=ve group[ environment] is expected to be able to control what those outside of their environment do and how they can not be in the muck as the plug is pulled. The greyhound thing really was/ is exclusive. You cant breed a grey or race it unless you were part of that exclusive gang [environment] but anyone can breed a pug without being a part of any environment [ group]. excellent points, I forgot that.

It's most people, including most breeders. You'd think most pet owners would be in favour of higher standards of breeder care and health testing. So why do they keep buying puppy farm dogs? Because 'registered breeders' ie, ANKC member body, and their members, come across as exclusive, which they are, by the very nature of the membership. They go and buy puppy farm dogs because those breeders work within the larger less exclusive environment of 'most people' I'm not saying it's great, just saying that it is that way 'Registered breeders' need to find ways to become less exclusive and more involved with 'most people' .. If they don't at best they will just remain their own little exclusive environment with little meaning to most people, at worst they will cease to exist because of the pressure of 'most people'.......which in the interests of staying on topic, is pretty much what has happened to greyhound racing NSW Bravo Gruff great work. the sticking point though is ankc members are extorted to not breed for the pet people, that would make you a puppy farmer and unethical. to be ethical you should only produce a litter when necessary to produce the next generation, if your bitch only has one pup so be it that's what you have been granted, to breed successive litters to get a better selection is to risk being the unthinkable. some even mooted to be truly ethical one must not sell any of the puppies you don't keep or pass on to fellow members should not only be on limit register regardless of how high their quality but to be truly ethical do not sell at a price high enough to realise a profit. doubt me? Ive heard it all mate. Some breeders have waiting lists that are years before you get a call, if your lucky. know, tried to source a pup from a highly recommended breeder by one of the heads of the ethics committee when I gave him a list of the qualities I was looking for. except when and if you make the cut none leave on main register soo why wait anyway. the figures tell it all 70,130 ankc puppies born australia wide for 2015. for every man woman and child in a country with over 25 million people. thats the highest number recorded since 2000. not many to go around is there from that source.

its not made up, its a peta word

the chocolate gene is also a dilution gene but its entirely seperate on a different locus. hence why a puppy can be both blue and chocolate and visually present as the ultra light lilac. the chocolate dilution does not develop alopecia, although it is quite subject to fading from sun exposure two blue genes on a black or a black and tan dog gives you a blue or blue and tan dog with a blue instead of a black nose. two blue genes on a sable or a fawn gives you a blue sable or a blue fawn, which presents as a pale golden with blue tips in the case of the sable or simply a blue sheen in the otherwise golden coat. both will have blue instead of black noses. Stringy is a blue fawn and you can see his lighter nose colour compared to his sister Lace and the golden girl Dancer. oops forgot to mention, dancer is yes a golden, but she is also a double chocolate which cannot express on a gold dog, but her nose does express it, her nose is chocolate instead of black. hence so many golden labradors who do not have a black nose. they are actually disguised chocolates hidden by their gold coat. only their nose is the giveaway

This link doesnt even explain what the problems can be associated with the blue gene? so if your already know this skip, if you dont and want one of the must have blue dogs. read and understand before you do buy one for the massive prices being asked for this cough "rare" colour. its not rare its just one of the many possible coat colours and there is a reason many breeders avoid producing blue or lilic (double blue double chocolate) puppies 25 percent of such puppies will mature and begin to display "blue gene alopecia." ok? what is that. it means your cute little whatever breed it is might be one of the one in four that will being to lose its coat. On the ears, top of its head, a speed stripe down its back including its tail. Some go from tip of nose to tip of tail, others keep the hair around their neck but short to almost bald elsewhere. one I so wish I had a photos of him he had a white star, white collar and legs , the rest of his body blue. he was a long coat chihuahua. but although the white part of his coat was long. all the blue part his coat was more like that of a mexican hairless. this gene expresses on 25% of all blue puppies regardless of breed, be it a chihuahua, doberman, rotti, french bulldog, staffie u name it. its a gene that cares nothing about what breed its found in. http://www.famouschihuahua.com/chihuahua-facts/what-is-a-blue-chihuahua/ I include my own blue boy, he had a seeminly normal long coat, until you saw his back, he had a normal neck ruff but from his shoulders, down is back to to tip of his tail he had what could be called a bedlington clip, his tail feather underneath was unaffected so he sure looked funny. The Black and tan is his normal coated sister Gates Lace, the golden girl Dancer is unrelated. this photo taken late in 1999 went worldwide in a calender in 2002, the photographer adored him. their photo adorned a set of coffee cups also available world wide

No breeder I know and respect considers what they do "work". As for blaming the ills of the dog world on the ANKC. The issue is bigger than that. The causes are myriad and a simplistic finger-pointing response that lays all blame at the door of registered breeders is a nonsense. The rise of the double income family, 450 sq m blocks and higher density living, changes to the cultural demographic and yes, animal rights campaigning are all shaping changes in attitudes to dogs. The amount of misinformation about dogs, dog breeds and dog raising is rife. I think that is the space where the ANKC best operates but when you have little money and the press prints what it wishes to, its a tough ask I'd like less finger pointing and more solutions that go beyond "they should". As I've already said, "they" should be "we". I was referring to the vet's pet. As for the ill's you refer to? I was referring to the fodder seen on pedigree dogs exposed. each and every one an ankc pedigree dog, it was decades after questions began to be asked before that was filmed and collated, plenty of time to have been proactive before the event.

Thanks Gruff. I wish I could be plainer, but this is the way I talk. Its not such a problem face to face. Buy yeah, you have it right. When you create an organization, you are creating an environment with its own purpose. Thats not usualy a problem, because its still just PART of an environment out of many parts. The problem is when its a closed or exclusive organization. It sets limits its pupose. Its no longer just another part of the whole. Its distinct from the rest. Its members are responding to that organized environment alone. The demands from out side are an intrusion on that space. Theres very little give and take of messages to act on. The message its members act on are those set out at its inception. The culture is set, or fixed and not able to quickly adapt or respond to change. Its an environment for its members, but since it 'acts' independently of the larger environment, its also an identity. Or another 'self' but far more influential on the larger environment than you or me on our own because of the sheer numbers of individuals all acting on the same message. Each in their own way, yes. But still the single environment and the messages its members receive from THAT environment. If its an exclusive org, Its messages must take precedence and its members a fixed single identity. The purpose( keeping pedigrees) isn't the problem. Thats an identity that serves a purpose. The exclusive nature is. Because that makes it an environment IN an identity it can't escape. It can't effectively respond to any demands out side of its ' self '. It can't be both a distinct identity and an isolated environment. An environment does not respond. It can only demand. I like your posts too. they do what so many are loath too. think!

Trouble is that's why so many remain silent and the ANKC'S are in the mess they are now. the real question is, is it too late now to turn the tables and become pro-active before its too late instead of reactive damage control? did you spot the survey request on the General forum? The wording was pure peta. We are now a "caretaker" of our pets. Most uni students or vet students for that matter don't even realise they are being peta Indoctrinated and what have our ANKC'S done to educate them instead? Research is over and over again proving the health benefits of not desexing let alone the results of early desexing, yet how many vets with their certificates with the ink still drying want to desex everything with 4 legs that walks into the practice? My sister became so sick of being asked when she was going to book her two girls in she finally gave them an ultimatum. never broach that subject again or she was changing vets. Wonder when it will dawn that once breeders are eliminated they will be finding themselves looking for a new line of work?

Participant Information Statement for Online Survey "Research Title: AN INVESTOGATION INTO DOG CARETAKERSHIP IN URBAN VICTORIA My name is Clare Fisher, I am a postgraduate research student from La Trobe University’s College of Arts, Social Sciences and Commerce. I am conducting my research under the supervision of Dr. Raymond Madden and Dr. Tarryn Phillips. You are being invited to participate in this study titled An Investigation into Dog Caretakership in Urban Victoria. I am interested in finding out about your experiences choosing and living with your dog or dogs. Your participation in this study will require the completion of the following online survey. This should take no more than twenty minutes of your time. Your participation will be anonymous and you will not be contacted again in the future. You will not be paid for this study. The survey involves minimal risk to you. The benefits, however, may increase our understanding of why people choose certain dog breeds and how compatible they are with our own lifestyles. You do not have to participate in this survey if you do not want to. You do not have to answer any question that you do not want to answer for any reason. We will be happy to answer any questions you have about this study. If you have any further questions about this project or if you have a research-related problem you may contact me, Clare Fisher via email [email protected] or my supervisors Raymond Madden ([email protected]) and Tarryn Phillips ([email protected]). If you have any complaints or concerns about your participation in the study that the researcher has not been able to answer to your satisfaction, you may contact the Senior Human Ethics Officer, Ethics and Integrity, Research Office, La Trobe University, Victoria, 3086 (P: 03 9479 1443, E: [email protected]) . Please quote the application reference number: E16-055 The completion of this survey implies your consent to participate. This document is able to be downloaded and printed if you would like to keep a copy for your records. " Well, I'll be darned we don't own a dog anymore, we "caretake" it. well until someone decides you arent a suitable carer and remove it forthwith eh? Does explain why the lady in england lost all her pets when she became ill with not a hope of getting any back once out of hospital. she had forfeited her 'Caretaker" status, the cats were lucky, although shooting her three sheep rather than let the neighbour "caretake" them for the 2 weeks she was in hospital was a bit grim for the sheep. Any distress she suffered was of no account since a good caretaker does not become emotionally attached to the client.

Was in a shopping centre near Bondi recently and tied to a bollard near the supermarket entrance were a pair of glorious great danes. so I gather the practice is not uncommon.

no dipstick. (my brothers favourite term for those he finds frustrating) Nancy was selling to them long before she became ill and needed me to drive her. I didn't know they existed until I drove through their gate and was introduced that first day I took her Asal, you've said previously you sold to McDougall. There was no Nancy in your previous story and again, and with your self-justification below, you are missing the point. I did not name nancy previously as she was alive and I had no wish to set the hounds on her, I note the baying is still noticable isnt it. so which is the point I'm missing?

As Sheridan gently pointed out I am one of the despised “unethical”. Labled by the likes of Sheridan, not me incidently. I became tainted for life after becoming a breeder of Cavies as a teen. I saw and wanted a Pure Black Smoothcoat Cavy. They are stunning creatures, shinning blue black in the Aussie sun, happy busy little critters who scream “mee too, mee too” the second they see you with goodies. Except there was a problem, in the 1950’s and 60’s there were pure breeding black Cavies, only problem was they were in England and import was banned to Australia. The one I had seen was a fluke from tricolour parents, so with the enthusiasm of youth I decided I would create my own family of true breeding black guinea pigs. With the help of my best friends brother, Glen Roberts a (now) world famous geneticist, who mapped for me what I needed to work towards and the copies of books on their colour inheritance genetics from The Stack at Sydney University. I set about my self appointed task. On the way I met some pretty amazing people, the staff of CSIRO Animal Health. Where else would you find the expertise than the men and women who kept this huge organisation supplied with healthy lab animals to conduct and sustain all the research work done that led the world in so many fields. (until our successive governments continual funding cuts have eventually ground to an almost standstill). I got to meet Hugh Gordon, Alec Lascelles, Jim Tyre, Jennifer MacDiarmid, Ph.D. & Himanshu Brahmbhatt, Ph.D.(justCLICK http://engeneic.com/ to see what these two genius’s have achieved in cancer research, including the first mesothelioma patient in remission. link to relevant article: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/engeneic-and-asbestos-diseases-research-institute-announce-encouraging-results-from-mesomir-1-phase-1-trial-in-late-stage-mesothelioma-patients-300098861.html) To name just a few. Jim donated three mainly black cavies from their Castle Hill facility, he and three mates (One of the four became my long patient hubby a decade or so later) went on to design, implement and teach the TAFE ANIMAL CARE COURSE. That is the course all Lab workers undertake as part of their training along with all the RSPCA Special Constables. I added another 4 seemingly black Cavies from other members of the NSW Cavy Club and the challenge began. It took 6 years and 12 generations before I had entire litters of pure black baby cavies. (Gen had estimated 12 years and 24 generation, so I was lucky) Along the way I discovered some of my cavy club purchases obviously carried a lethal gene. A percentage of babies would be born with misshapen ears, some with no eyes? With such a small gene pool to work with, what to do? That is when I learnt why old time stud masters bred father to daughter, mother to son. It was not just to fix traits. It was also a tool to learn what if any deleterious genes they may carry. I did as tasked and soon found which original animals carried the disaster genes. Once i knew which lines might carry it, the next stage was to deliberately keep all females who had produced affected offspring and mate them to any young males I had intended using for the next generation, prior to him siring anything to the females of his generation. Female cavies breeding lives are too short to test breed them to known carrier males to see if they carry the gene. As Glen explained i needed a minimum of 16 from known carrier parent to an unknown carrier status parent to ensure a valid carrier or non carrier status to the unknown. Ideally 36 preferably 100 is the ideal figure but that just wasn’t feasible. So using Glen’s advice test breeding all potential stud males to carrier females eliminated the defective gene in 6 generations. Remember these were the decades before dna testing existed. As well the method, occasional father daughter, mother son mating’s did a full sweep for possible hidden genes. Pretty necessary for an original gene pool of only 7 individuals. Breeding is a hard game. Plenty of opportunity for tears. It is pretty distressing when the inevitable happens and you get babies which have to be put down because you know they will have no quality of life if left to struggle to survive. The flip side is knowing you are doing all you can to ensure future generations will be free of this. I remember when The Canine Council, long before it became Dogs NSW, did a survey and discovered to its surprise less than 20% of new members were still members and breeding 5 years after registering their prefix. Something like 80% of their membership were the few who survived the initial traumatic first 5 to 10 years and mainly pensioners. So many years later when I acquired my first pedigree puppy I came from a totally different background and mind set to most of you here on Dogzonline and the ANKC memberships. I bought my first puppy from a lady named Phil, she was an unashamed ANKC breeder of family pets, who believe it or not ARE the real job of our dogs, its no accident the manual for breeders is compiled under the COMPANION ANIMALS ACT. Dogs ARE companion animals, even the working breeds make great companions at days end. The dog show scene is the newcomer to the block, just read up when Dog shows first began for yourself. So the day I read my first Breed Standard for my new puppy, I spotted a sentence that I found concerning. The words ran something “in the case of two of equal merit, the more diminutive preferred”. Nancy had long been a family friend before I acquired my first puppy, and I knew she loved showing, so took the new baby to see her. She was horrified at my choice of breeder who I had bought her from, but had to concede she was a nice puppy. I began to go to some shows with Nancy but soon noticed many judges were not bothering with the equal merit part of the standard, simply calling in the smallest in the lineup for the placings. Even in those early days (1978) many breeders considered surgical delivery to be normal. It was pretty obvious why. After acquiring Hillary Harmer’s book The Complete Chihuahua, complete too with photos of her original Chihuahuas from Chile. Including the unforgettably named El Pis. https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Chihuahua-Encyclopedia-Hilary-Harmar/dp/0668029102 I began to question, what are they doing to the Chihuahua? What is trotting around the showrings in 1978 is not the dogs the Incas had bred vet free, surgery free for thousands of years. The “improved” version wasn’t the self whelping dog of the Inca’s anymore. Any throwbacks to El Pis and his kennel mates were derided now as the Bambi type. It didn’t make me popular and I became an embarrassment to Nancy and her friends, but the darling never gave up on me and tried for decades to re-educate me, just as I tried to re-educate her. She never in or line bred, and and rarely kept a bitch or dog for breeding unless it had acquired Ch before its name, but she did begin selecting her bitches for pelvis as wide as the shoulders and checked for width between the pin bones and yes they self whelped beautifully. To defend me from the puppy farmer label she began to show some of my dogs to their CH certificates as I had lost interest in showing by then. Remember too this was before Animal Rights began asking similar questions. The fuel for Pedigree Dogs exposed. Was long in the making and the ANKC breeders had members like me asking awkward questions long before the animal rights groups began collecting the ammunition for that doco. They had decades to listen and act before they were ambushed by the disaster of their own making. The biggest failure of the ANKC’S as I see it was to belittle the question askers instead of working to become proactive in the reduction of breeding and health problems in their respective breeds instead of sticking to the mentality that this is how they are , see how we have improved on the dogs of 40 years ago and ignoring those who questioned the ‘improvements” and now reduced to reactive only to the challenges now being directed at them. As proven by the sudden deletion of that very sentence I had queried so many decades before from the standard after the airing of Pedigree Dogs Exposed. As a side note, Phil put friendly temperament towards strangers one of the tops on her list, her dogs were unmissable in that department, I agreed with her. People used to be amazed to see such friendly Chihuahua’s when they came to visit me. Footnote: how successful were my Cavies? Some 15 years later in think 1987/88 not sure the exact year, the Cavy Club could advise you, Sydney Royal hosted two firsts, the First Cavy Exhibition at the Royal and the exhibition of English Imported Show Cavies. So who bred the first Sydney Royal Supreme smoothcoat Cavy? Percy Short with his pure Asal line Black and the Supreme Long Coat , I was thrilled to discover was also a Pure Asal line cavy. Sadly I cannot remember the name of the lady who Bred him but I hope some one can spot this and tell us some day. They were thrilled almost beyond words to have so beaten the English imports with their all aussie blood line cavies. (I dabbled with some of the early long coat lines as an aside to the main mission)

no dipstick. (my brothers favourite term for those he finds frustrating) Nancy was selling to them long before she became ill and needed me to drive her. I didn't know they existed until I drove through their gate and was introduced that first day I took her

What problems have sighthound breeders created? Right now its damn wise to be defensive. Their dogs are in the cross hairs . everything is in the crosshairs, all your left to argue is in which order are they lined up for target. had a dream last night, quite odd but maybe time will see it to be true, regardless of the order all domesticated species are marked for elimination, people are just a bit slow to realise that, the name today should be Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Breeds. or RSEDB or? Perhaps, Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Species may be more appropriate, does RSEDS have a better, more realistic ring to it? Of course, breeders, such as those who sold litters to McDougall for that pet shop in Hawaii wouldn't have had anything to do with the bad PR problem. many breeders sold to the company who was exporting to McDougal the Hawaii Pet shop, I saw many of the litters sold and they were stunning puppies, one of the conditions was they had to be on Main Register and I was so tempted to buy a ticket and fly there to buy some of the puppies I saw. Many were from breeders who would never sell on main register in Australia. scotched the idea when I found how complicated it would be to reimport but it was tempting to daydream, international pedigrees denied to the rest of australia. Perhaps your memory is failing you, asal, because you've previously said you sold to McDougal. my mentor was Nancy Gate and I cared for her dogs for many years before her heart began to fail. She was one tough cookie. I still remember the day she rang me and told me I had to come and pick up every dog as her doc wanted her admitted to hospital, so spent an hour catching and packing every one in my car as Nancy directed operations, and listed who was to go to which friend until she came out and which i was to look after, some wanted to eat me alive so I had a few bite marks for my trouble from a couple of the older ones who considered no one but Nancy was allowed to pick them up. Finally all aboard and and delivered Nancy to Emergency, what happened next was a whirlwind, medics came running, carted her off on a stretcher and wondered what on earth happened? Finally learned she was having a heart attack and over half her heart was already dead yet she wouldnt get in my car till I had done as instructed. Amazing lady. No one who wanted to learn was turned away her patience was great as was her humor. and she retired to live with her daughter, although she couldnt take her dogs with her so I kept some for many years and would report their doings and send photos till she died, she lived years beyond her doctors expectations and she sold puppies to them and I delivered them, it was fascinating to see the puppies there from other breeders and a real surprise to spot the prefixes involved, some very high profile kennels. Sad i cant name any living breeder who sent any since they would be as despised as you do me. One pup in particular raised some really interesting questions for the ANKC. I notice it still says that two longcoat chihuahua's cannot produce a smoothcoat pup. One litter with both parents longocat, the sire being a very well known dog, Champion Gates Adam, had a stunning smoothcoat bitch puppy in it. She had decided to sell some of the litter to McDougals and I took her and the puppies,a chap in the office took one look at the smoothcoat girl and wanted her on the spot for Hawaii, but Nancy explained it could not be registered. He phoned the Office at the Canine council and to our astonishment whoever was on the other end of the phone, told him they would register her. so Nancy sent in the application for registration and off she went to Hawaii. except just as expected she received a letter informing her what? no rego for a smoothcoat from longcoats. the new owner had fit and demanded the parents and the puppy be dna'd to prove parentage. which was done and yes it all came back correct so extremely grudgingly she received her main registration papers. I took quite a few puppies over the years and they were always extremely nice people and had no hesitation in letting me see where the puppies were quarantined and always sent back photos of the puppies with their new owners and quite often later would receive letter and photos from them as well, some for years. One chap even came to visit when he was in australia for his honeymoon and so wanted to see the parents of his much loved puppy.

Except breeders have been well trained to keep their campfires low and stay off the track - say too much get too obvious about who you are and what you do and you are likely to be wallopped. Those who have more than one or two dogs who have a genuine interest in seeing it stay as it is are the least likely to make waves and shout about it . We are divided -where are the dog related groups who have stood up for the greyhound people where are the dog related groups who join with us to fight crap legislation - where are we if they need us. How many dog related people and groups are going to go in and shout and donate money to help the people who compete in lure work? They are in the same place as they were when the docking ban was being fought or the BSL fight or so many other issues. The "dog world" is so fragmented and wrapped up in individual opinions that they will never support each other and soon it will be too late. Yep. Another yes from me except when is the dog world going to get real. a pet is a living thing. there are NO guarantees come home with your own baby when you go out the hospital door with your next generation. When the life time guarantees began to be touted as the the must do for every "ETHICAL" breeder, I thought, hey no one guaranteed my parents a heath guarantee when they brought me, my brothers or my sister home? No one said my children would come home with a lifetime health guarantee? When my babies died, one after the other,most of them about the ten to 12 week mark and I kept asking the doctors whats going wrong? To be told don't you realise every time a new life begins each and every one is a miracle that makes it to term, so many things can go wrong while the cells are dividing, one mistake and the embryo is nonviable and in the majority of instances are aborted early. all these assumptions that ethical breeders can produce universally healthy animals and life guarantee them is expecting something we cannot even do for even our own children? Surely if it is not only impossible for parents to achieve for their children, why? and how did pet breeders blindly without question accept responsibility for so many thousands of things that can go wrong which aren't genetic without asking questions first? two of my babies were identical twins. IDENTICAL GENES PEOPLES! SO if my babies were puppies their breeder would have been off the ethical list in one swipe, since one of them had only one kidney and part of his diaphragm was missing. pardon the pun but pet breeders "have been sold a pup" when they fell for that without looking further into the facts. there are thousands if not tens of thousands of things that can go wrong that are not genetic from the parents, there are many mutations that neither parent has, eg Down. XXY, the list is staggering and thats before we get to the inherited genes for which there is only an infinitesimal number with DNA tests for. Decades ago birth defects that didn't have a known genetic cause were referred to as congenital as in defect occurring during embryonic development, these days most of the newbie vets call every defect genetic with no knowledge or investigation if such is really the case the easy stuff to eliminate is the dominant, but the recessives? lord save us, the list is long and the DNA test list is short. for decades breeders have been held to ransom to eliminate HD, yet rumour has it perhaps? diet is part of the problem. its a minefield, who wants to be the first to put their toe in anymore? cant find the one with the hip displastic lines sepearate into three groups, one control, one ad lib fed one diet restricted and the difference in hip displacia percentages was astonishing considering the puppies were siblings from known hip displastic percentage producing parents. still looking for it so far, this one is just the difference in life span obviously this too is not so genetic after all folks http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediets-Kealy2002dietaryrestriction.pdf my question is it arrogance or stupidity to accept responsibility for things which in fact, really are actually beyond your control?

What problems have sighthound breeders created? Right now its damn wise to be defensive. Their dogs are in the cross hairs . everything is in the crosshairs, all your left to argue is in which order are they lined up for target. had a dream last night, quite odd but maybe time will see it to be true, regardless of the order all domesticated species are marked for elimination, people are just a bit slow to realise that, the name today should be Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Breeds. or RSEDB or? Perhaps, Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Species may be more appropriate, does RSEDS have a better, more realistic ring to it? Of course, breeders, such as those who sold litters to McDougall for that pet shop in Hawaii wouldn't have had anything to do with the bad PR problem. many breeders sold to the company who was exporting to McDougal the Hawaii Pet shop, I saw many of the litters sold and they were stunning puppies, one of the conditions was they had to be on Main Register and I was so tempted to buy a ticket and fly there to buy some of the puppies I saw. Many were from breeders who would never sell on main register in Australia. scotched the idea when I found how complicated it would be to reimport but it was tempting to daydream, international pedigrees denied to the rest of australia.

unless its been changed, a friend was told the law is now that you cannot keep a bitch and her litter within 50 mt rs of a food preparation area. ie kitchen. She kept hers on the veranda beside the kitchen and on very cold days in the kitchen. unless the distance has been reduced there are few homes that have rooms 50 meters from the kitchen? Another kept hers in the lounge room, she too was warned she could not do this anymore as they were too close to the kitchen area. Both were told to build concrete kennels and house them there. in both cases their blocks were too small to built anything inside their residential block outside this perimeter. Is this still the case? I remember a chap once told his wife, anyone who does not raise their puppies in the home is a puppy farmer. yet read the Companion Animal Manual for breeders? http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/299803/Breeding-dogs-and-cats-code-of-practice.pdf That's exactly what they list and recommend. concrete kennels?

Heres how I see it then. You are stakling every thing on a reality that exists only in the K.Cs. You won't recognize any other possible reality. Its got to be Pedgirees all the way. You will risk every thing, for every one on your belief the pedigree system alone has a future. Pedigree dogs, Or no dogs. If your faith is so great you better pray. I'll be looking for a more favorable response to DOGS else where. Theres no time for this. Looks like this is the best response I can hope for here ("Academic weasel words") I tried. Dog help you. this doesnt bode well either, interesting it notes the rise of manufactured dog food may be a contributing factor as well http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2016/07/13/pedigree-dog-lifespan.aspx?utm_source=petsnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160713Z3&et_cid=DM110747&et_rid=1569357715

Yes. Sheridan's is an accurate precis. FFS I'm trying to save your sorry 'victim' butts, poor you and poor my my breed. Guess you are on your own. Suggest you start by explaining how you are saving poor us in language we can comprehend. With you there. I find it incredibly difficult to read mm's posts. I can comprehend basically everyone else's posts, even the longer ones, but there is another language in mm's posts which just don't seem to sink in. I've even read a so-called explanation and it made no sense. I don't really have much to add to this conversation but I would suggest the reason the owners of Greyhounds are suggesting they'll have to put their dogs down is because the money they were getting in prize money etc. was going toward feeding their dogs. Maybe I'm just a farmer's daughter but if I don't have a use for an animal (including enjoying their company), it has to go. With the tide of Greyhounds being out of a job, there will most likely be many needing homes & not enough homes - would it be better if people end up on the street just so they can feed their dogs?? Or perhaps it's a sensible choice to put the dogs to sleep rather than risk it ending up in a bad position due to a rushed rehoming process. If it were me and they really do take it to a ban I would simply put them all to sleep if the only other option was the RSPCA. Think they have overlooked the fact that having a vet kill your dogs is still perfectly legal and just because the bleeding hearts will feel better if there are RSPCA "helping" doesn't mean the owners are going to let them take the bow for taking them on. Agreed. I saw somewhere that the RSPCA has put down the same number of dogs as the greyhound industry in NSW. It works out to about 5000 dogs per year. So you noticed it too eh? dont think you are supposed too though

interesting article. its non dog topic yet isnt the topic scarily familiar re the training arguments? https://annablakeblog.com/2016/07/15/defending-horses-with-words-and-money/

What problems have sighthound breeders created? Right now its damn wise to be defensive. Their dogs are in the cross hairs . everything is in the crosshairs, all your left to argue is in which order are they lined up for target. had a dream last night, quite odd but maybe time will see it to be true, regardless of the order all domesticated species are marked for elimination, people are just a bit slow to realise that, the name today should be Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Breeds. or RSEDB or? Perhaps, Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Species may be more appropriate, does RSEDS have a better, more realistic ring to it?