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[quote name=orrd' timestamp='1350369506' post='5988028] So because Azaria (RIP) was killed by a dingo, an individual dingo, you are now condemning the whole dingo race as wild, untrustworthy creatures that should remain where they are? I fear you have had very little to do with a well raised pet dingoes. sorry missed that the first time - YES, YES, YES thats EXACTLY and ALL i am saying. someone finally gets it. Oh , so we have a pro BSL troll in our Midst

Thank goodness, you are wondering the same as me. As to the confusion as to whether the Australian Dingo is a "wild" or feral dog. One must look at the orign of the animal. This extract from a journal article written by Savolainen et al. (2004) can give some in sight (please see full reference at the bottom of this post.) " The dingo originated from a population of East Asian dogs. Type A29 was one of several domestic dog mtDNA types brought into Island Southeast Asia, but only A29 reached Australia. The dingo population was probably founded from a small number of animals, as the last trickle of domestic dogs through a series of bottlenecks, or even by a single chance event and has since remained effectively isolated from other dog populations. The dingoes may have arrived in connection with the expansion, starting ≈6,000 yr ago, from south China into Island Southeast Asia of the Austronesian culture. By this time, domestic dogs had existed for several thousand years (4, 11), and the present semidomestic state of the dingo can probably be attributed to a long existence as a feral animal. After >3,500 years of isolation, the dingoes represent a unique isolate of early undifferentiated dogs. " From this we can conclude that the dingo is not a truly wild breed of dog, but semidomesticated to feral breed. Hence more likely to integrate well into a cohabitation enviroment with humans. Anecdotal evidence has shown that dingo can be a more sociable animal than some recognized breeds of domestic dog. Savolainen, P. Leitner, T. Wilton, A,N. Matisoo-Smith,E. Lundeberg, J. (2004) A detailed picture of the origin of the Australian dingo, obtained from the study of mitochondrial DNA. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. Vol. 101 no. 33 12387-12390 Link to full article below. http://www.pnas.org/content/101/33/12387.full

do i take it you feel he should have let her die that day? well does that mean you feel your opinion is more valid than that of those who choose to save a life? What make you think your opinion is more valid than that of those who do not have the same? maybe its my turn to go, eh????

well? you did ask who and why would someone 'want' a dingo. as my neighbour fitted neither of your categories. neither has most people ive met who ended up with one.

mmm come to think of it, there a lot of people too dumb to ever end up any but the servant of an acd. they arent for the lap dog lovers. leave one of these guys to their own devices and the games can be somewhat destructive and thats saying a lot. their jaws are just as strong as a dingo. just survey your boots after being rounded up and used as dental floss. or even worse your best going out shoes

erm, i dont own a purebred dingo never have. unless you count the Australian Cattledog? the neighbour did not go seeking to have a dingo. he felt sorry for the little golden pup about to have its brains knocked out against the pub bar. she came home with him, she had a happy life and no one but the few who knew her story were any the wiser. that tends to be the story behind the majority of surburban dingos. that add is the first ive ever seen for any 'for sale' and it was brought to my attention where? here at least they are a pure breed so it at least fits the forum guidelines. I live with a ex jackaroo, many of his friends are what the kids (now adults) call "bushie heros". these men grew up in a world no city slikers knows existed. my friend Les Ellery drove his first bullock team at 8 years old. held his first full time job at 11. my hubby is of the same generation as are his mates and workmates, I have a pool of knowledge to draw on that is beyond any google search. hubby was looking through a window one day watching some surgeons hooking up to do a op. they were short of an anesethist, he got hooked into the room and on the job training, who were they and what where they doing? learning to do heart transplants. no guesses who these amazing men were surely. only recently he was in hospital and a doctor couldnt get the vein in hubbys arm. after enduring half a dozen aborted (n by the look of agony on his face not too gentle) attempts hubby offered to teach the now flustered doctor how to 'tap for a vein'. lesson finished instant insertion, the fully qualified doc couldnt believe how easily it could be done when taught properly. this ole chap has taught generations of vets how to do the same thing yet he has no PHD. the knowledge of these men is awesome and as i was told by bill law, you never stop learning until your dead. have fun kiddies

http://www.dingoconservation.org.au/dingo-social.html This is exactly how Rokeglen Red Rhyme (main registered Red cattledog) would feed her pups the minute she considered they were ready for meat. Pity the selected menu item was invariably my best layer. the chooks were safe anyother time........sigh still miss the ole girl , got her in 1983. she sure was a goodun, a yank offered me 3,000 for her the minute he saw her. I believe her descendants are scattered round the globe now, he bought all the pups a friend had bred from one of her daughters as well as the daughter when i didnt want to sell. "The gestation period is sixty three days and the average litter size is three to five pups. The entire pack will care for the young, regurgitating meat to pups as young as three weeks of age. Pups will commence eating solids at approximately three weeks of age and will often be weaned by the time they are six weeks of age."

here u go http://www.dingoconservation.org.au/dingo-physical.html

forget where but theres a population of em just dont remember where. n dont forget the occasional white one.....loverly sure puts the smarts into the crosses the owners tell me.

Because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make their 'tone' grating (how you read tone into a post written on a forum is totally up to you anyway). While I might not agree with all their points, I too am against the vast majority of people keeping exotic/wild animals for pets too. It isn't for the animals benefit - it is for the person's. A camp dingo is very different from a dingo living in the burbs because 'OMG it is soooo cute". I find their tone grating because they're labeling everyone who has a pet dingoes as selfish attention seekers basically. A lot of people would disagree with having a LGD as a family pet in suburbia as well, it doesn't mean it can't happen and it certainly doesn't mean you want it for status or "novelty". If people can provide a dingo with a good life, with everything it needs, then it sure beats being shot by a farmer. Dingoes are NOT wolves, Dingoes are descended from domestic Asiatic dogs and are basically feral and not truly wild. The notion that everyone who owns a dingo is cruel is what I find grating. how on earth walking a dingo anywhere could be construed as 'attention seeking" beats me. 99.9 % of people wouldnt even realise that goldi looking mutt was a dingo, most would think it was a cattledog n missedout on the mottling. the black and tans easily pass for a kelpie. n saints preserve us its no accident either, I sure know the cattledog is part dingo. ditto for some kelpies

thank goodness the dingo will never attract the attention of the macho's who just have to have a pit bull or any of the other fighting breeds as an extension of their egos. they tend to be the owners of the attacking breeds, far too many even encourage their dogs to be agressive, these are the people who put these breeds into the headlines. making life a misery for the good responsible owners of these same breeds. no dingo would contribute to a scary image or attract the dog fighting fraternity luckily for them.

now you are drawing a long bow. Wild dingos, encouraged into camps especially hungry ones can and have killed children. I for one have never heard or seen a post that a domesticated dingo in the suburbs or cities and there they are there, usually brought back from outback trips, like the neighbours girl, ever attacked or killed someones smf walking past or its owner . theres a lot of headlines of supposedly fully domesticated breeds doing it though. just surf this forum. no need to google. as for chucking in the birds? wasnt the subject you brought up the tourists enticing the dingos in and they being shot as a result? as i remember children have been savaged and killed on frazer island . i know a chap, well a few who work with the exhibited dingos at various parks. they are kept securely fenced in and not one of them consider entering their pens dangerous, I doubt that can be said of any of the overseas carnivors on exhibit though. one chap was crying when he retired knowing he would be no longer able to play with his charges any more . he would have loved to take his favourite home.

Frankly Fraser Island is pretty much a disgrace, there are times of the year there when the dingos are starving. they are hunter scavengers, to allow people into frazer island during these times is stupid and cruel to both the people and the dingos. any opportunity for a free feed will be taken, not just tourists wanting photos as was assumed. If the authorities honestly belive its ok for natural selection to cull the weakest during these times at least they should close the park until the dingos have died and there is sufficient food available. just because they are not as big, powerful and dangerous and bears doesnt change the fact the authorities allow the public into a national park during a time of starvation. bears that come in and scavenge in the visitor areas are caught and removed well away to prevent their return. the Frazer Island dingos have no such luxury, they are there and few take the sea escape route to the mainland if any. If the authorites knowing the dingos are in starvaton times why dont they cull some so the survivors dont end up so hungry some decide a child might be just as tasty as a wallaby? or if they still want tourists there, put feeding stations out in the bush where no tourists are?

yes I thought thats what was meant as well, but I dont thing Oord realises there are plenty of camp dingo's still living with aboringinals besides the the genuine wild ones. as for neighbours pup, if her husband had not rescued her, her life would have ended in that pub. it wasnt a question of her ever being returned to her mum. she ended up having a very happy and well adjusted life in the burbs. she certainly had no idea she was supposed to be a wild animal

think it might be an idea to phone the specalists if your in nsw. I bred two girls that lucky for me he was their normal vet. they were both fine until they were 7 and and 6 . years old that is , not months. they began limping within a few weeks of each other, taken to him, he diagnosed patella and gave the quote for the op. their darling owner told him to send me the bill direct. it was something around 3,000 dollars and that was over 6 years ago maybe more anyway he told her forget that one, they have had nothing wrong every check until now. what have you changed at home. new bed twice the height .. successful op pillows placed as a ladder so no more jumping and no more probems. fortunately in each only one leg had been injoured, the other leg remained ok after the jumping stopped. one is now 16 so she has remained sound for 10 years the other unfortunately died in an accident.

yep and you can put them in the boot when your going out with the pup as well. on the ends makes them taller or extra panels added for a roof for the climbers. I use the $1 cheapie boat type clips from super cheap auto to clip em together although the stronger ones last forever .

Then there is whose defination of 'ethical' you believe. I know you really cant tell by how nice the person or the set up. for example there are places where roll the mum over and there is not one that has not had their pups delivered by ceaser. not because the breed has a problem. the breeder and the vet firmly believe its better to pay for a ceaser and avoid losing any pups. the same vet also belives its perfectly fine to not only remove the pups but the entire uterus after delivery when its the second or third litter. no bitch there ever gets to deliver for herself not even first time mums, so they wake up to "what is that attacking me" some pups die because their new mum is terrified of them, but hey the breeder is absolutely ethical. never have more than three litters , most only two. never sells any on main register. most dont even go on limit, there are three prices and 99% decide on not even limit. any future mums if they mature and develop a fault that may cause an unhappy buyer the cost of raising her is recouped by x breeding and selling the designers with their hybrid vigor. n again ceasered n desexed at the same time. I know the vet who does this as routine and has trained his customers this is best practice. I know because I met him. I darent say where or who. so its not just one breeder doing this and believing this is 'ethical' I know my vet would never do that. As he said, you have removed a huge resevoir of nutrient and blood of the now nursing mum, if you want to save money on desexing her on delivery, instead of when she has recovered from nursing and then desexed, dont come to me.

what has always puzzled me about the oodle is if you want the advandage of the poodle why not buy the real deal? there is NO lottery will it shed or not. it never will. they are amazing dogs and they come in every size available as well? and their coats are bred to be the less matting than you will see in the x's its beyond me. if you want a oodle GET A POODLE

are those photos correct? brown and tan? im in loooooooooove although im beginning to suspect what i really need is a maremma 5 foxes live down on the creek, the chooks are dissappearing at a rate of knots the second hubbys slow to lock em up

Funnily enought now ive chucked in the towel. have two txt messages complete with photos, two of my pups will be doing their first shows end of this year. yep........I sold em on main register n nope wont be desexed. they are beginners with their first registered pup and thrilled to bits with their darlings. I so fear for them, they want their kids to have the fun of showing their pup, I HAVE so tried to warn them what will happen if they win. others have discovered the natives only tend to be friendly if you are losing.

brookstar? "I do not desex my dogs at a young age. I know what to do to look after them. But do I trust the average person, not on my life. They do not even know how to teach a dog to sit, to take it for a walk every day, etc. But you claim that they can be taught to keep to a bitch safe and under 100% control around undesexed male dogs while on heat. I would love to know HOW you propose to teach the average idiotic dog owner how to do that. They cannot keep them under control 99.9% of the time, how on earth do you propse they do so when the dog is entire. I do not and never will believe it is in a dogs best interest to be bred from at 4 months of age, which is when small breeds can begin to enter heat cycles. I do not believe it is in any dogs best interests to be mated to any old dog wandering the street and nor do I believe it is in the interests of dogs to be bred from every cycle, yet the fact is that is what happens when they are in the hands of the average dog owner. As simple as that. " Looks like maybe you need a chill pill. Ive had chi's since 78 and i have NEVER seen a bitch comming into season befor 8 months of age. Comming means just that. so actully fertile and ready to mate about 9 monts males? another matter I remember well my shocked friend nancy gate catching one of her pups busy at 7 months 2 weeks and and to her utter astonishment the bitch had pups to him. as for people not desexing their pups, again you need a chill pill. I have lost count of the bitch puppies I have loaned out on breeders terms alone who were desexed at their first season despite it was agreed I would get a breeding to her on her second season. why not? because its too annoying have a bitch in season. as for people who actually pay the asking price for a good dog. Every one that bought their pup as a pet HAS had it desexed. believe it or not 99 percent of people who have bought a puppy from me wanted it for a pet AND DESEXED them as agreed when they were 6 to 9 moths old. BOYS AND GIRLS. gee you have a low opinion of your own species. But then the general public now have a pretty low opinion of breeders too now thanks to all the mud slinging about backyarders and puppy farmers. its agreed that anyone who bought one of mine could call anytime they needed it boarded, just wont board others though, or couldnt keep it for some reson only has to call. very few have had to rehome, accidents and problems can happen but frankly I tend to suspect the majority of dumpers got theirs cheaply and dont respect them as a result. I well remember as a child my uncle used to breed persian cats, he kept the best kitten and gave the others away it wasnt long before the neighbourhool had unkempt ungroomed persians lolling around. my mum convinced him to charge a good price for his kittens and all of a sudden they were 'valuable' and thus valued and washed, groomed and beautiful. people have to feel their pet has value not only in their eyes but others too. that helps a lot. there are tens of MILLIONS of much loved well cared for pets. you ranters forget its only a fraction that ends up in the pounds. your missing the big picture to the misery of for example the too early desexed babies and those who have to care for them for the rest of their lives .

Not sure just how it works,but maybe thats why there is as much variation in dingos now (colour,white spots etc.) Further changes apart from shortening of muzzle etc. that occurs with domestication likely depends on continued selection for the tamest? well the neighbours pup wasnt'selected' like that. her hubby was a semi driver and some local out the middle of nowhere arrived at the pub with a litter of pups he had dug out, she was the last pup left and they was going to knock her on the head and he asked for her and brought her home. she looked just like the girl in the photos above. The whole point of the experiment was to select the naturally tame foxes from litters of wild foxes and then breed only the tame cubs of those litters and so on. Tamer dingoes are present in the wild population, every dingo in unique as is every dog. That is displayed int he post above where the dingo is not very affectionate compared to your neighbour's one. Yes, except few people seem to realise the same happens even in purebred litters. Marrs and his sister Bluey were very outgoing from their first weeks, their litter sister i called violet as in 'shrinking violet' she always sat in the corner and watched the action. she desplayed this from her first weeks as a pup. so many people seem to have to assume a shy dog has had to have been mistreated. I watched Violet and her 8 other littermates from the day they were born ...she was born that way. to change these pups even a little takes ten times the socalising and you cant make such a dog grown up with the same behaviour that comes naturally with its litter mates no more thn you can with children you can help them but you cant MAKE them what they arent either. it wasnt that long ago that mothers of autistic children were made to wear the blame. Thank goodness that has been proven to be wrong

Not sure just how it works,but maybe thats why there is as much variation in dingos now (colour,white spots etc.) Further changes apart from shortening of muzzle etc. that occurs with domestication likely depends on continued selection for the tamest? well the neighbours pup wasnt'selected' like that. her hubby was a semi driver and some local out the middle of nowhere arrived at the pub with a litter of pups he had dug out, she was the last pup left and they was going to knock her on the head and he asked for her and brought her home. she looked just like the girl in the photos above.

your girl sounds like my neighbours girl in all except she thought everyone was her best friend. and loved pats and cuddles. no one ever asked was she a dingo so the subject never came up. only her owners and us knew where she actually came from

for the life of me i cant remember what or whatever gave me that idea? anyway dont know if theres a thread it should go into but everyone really watch out for snakes, the daughter of one of my last girls is at the vets fighting for her life, they told her owner another 5 minutes later n no possible hope, she has already had to be resuciated after a cardic arrest, so all who know darling buffie are praying for her. why ho why cant they run away instead of towards a snake