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The trouble is you are only a "good" breeder as long as no puppy develops a problem. Then all bets are off. as for the welfare groups, no one who breeds is any such thing that was made very very very clear after that interesting conversation. how quickly the tone and attitude slipped gears. How often have I warned people since the first use of "backyard breeders" came into use in the 70's. EVERYONE has a backyard, its just the same as the witchhunts and inquisition, all it takes is just one disgruntled person, even a once best friend and you are suddenly, IT. You can certainly end a long standing friendship instantly as I learned. Gave an adult to a now ex friend. Had a full vet check before as this dog had been attacked by a cat as a pup and one tear duct was destroyed so always has to have drops in the affected eye, as she is now 4 years old the eye had gone cloudy despite the medication so wanted to make absolute sure about that eye first. My vets opinion. Yes eye no problem to the dog no changes in size between the two no pain or discomfort in the damaged eye and no need to remove it even if it obviously does not look normal, can still see through it to a degree. the other eye bright and completely normal appearance but in this instance instead of full normal tear reading came in half way between normal and the cut off for dry eye and advised to keep an eye on it in case somthing was going on there and double the reason not to interfer with the other eye as removing one eye can cause complications with the other eye, that in his opinon an unnecessary risk. All this was relayed to the new owner. Except without saying anything to me took her to another vet who promplty diagosed dry eye in the good eye and took out the cloudy eye and pocketed a motza as well as told my now very ex friend what agony I had kept the dog in the previous 4 years...so who is right? the vet who had known her from the day the feral cat attacked her or this chap fresh out of vet school???????????? In point of fact the real victum in this scenario is the dog. If my vet is right I hate to think OOPS forgot to explian, the reason was homed with this person they already have one with genuine dry eye so putting the drops in the injoured eye would not have been a problem as they do their other dog anyway. What is is about people when some young fresh out of graduation vet says you need to do mega bucks the more money quoted the more the newbie to dogs believes them? Some of them are charging $99 just for vaccinations for goodness sake? They seem to think the higher the cost the better the vet? From what ive seen that aint necessarily so. most of the good vets have been in practice more than 10 years, as one of mine quipped, "the graduation certification simply means that, gives em the right to now learn at YOUR expense." wether to or is up to you if you dont do your homework first before shelling out.

my dad never lived down asking my uncle to catch the 'lizard' living beside the bush tiolet. it had popped its head out every time dad was on the throne of meditation and despite many near misses over the two weeks we had been visiting over chrismas he had never succeeded in catching it. next day uncle phoned, he had 'caught' dads lizard. a 7 foot tiger snake

I agree with you its insane as other breeders ive met who have given back the purchase price or another pup they do so to "keep their reputation" which i doubt will happen. Trouble is as my doctor once told me when my twins were autopsied, ( they were identical twins). one was missing a kidney and most of his diaphram. (he said instead of asking why is one perfect the other missing bits, realise every conception is a miracle that may or may not complete in a functional offspring, congenetial defects are just that, defects present at birth ) but although a parent cannot even be guaranteed a healthy child. puppy buyers expect and demand what we cannot give our own child? whats the bets if my babies were puppies some vet would be telling me the missing kidney and diaphram was inherited? yet both babies were genetically identical? so where does that put the "expert"? vet opinions? for the slow learners, if they are identical twins then if one has everythig perfect SO SHOULD THE OTHER the genes are IDENTICAL so somehow other factor or factors, not genetic had to have been at work? reality went out the window when dogs began to be described as goods like a fridge or a washing machine somewhere on here i spotted someone saying Hip Displacia is 14%genetic and the rest nutrition yet t the breeder will be the one held solely responsible by both the buyer and the buyers vet, ive seen it heaps over the years happen to those with the breeds that are suspectable and even some that have never seen it before in their breed

its far from as simple as that, for example i rehomed a girl whose owner had died with another pensioner, unfortunately although she was beginning to bond with him he felt he wanted her already leaping into his lap so returned the perfectly healthy sound girl to me and puppy sat a cute little pom pet shop puppy over the weekend, instant affection and bond and a man who had to go without food to pay for that $1,000 pet shop puppy, who incidently told him was going cheap????????? because it had patella in both legs preferred to pay money he could not afford rather than put even a few more days gaining the trust of an adorable AND FREE adult. so how do you change that mindset? when i saw him a year later he wass sorry he had not let her have more time with him, is cute pom had cost him a fortune but hindsight is somewhat late for many people. there is too little patience anymore and certainly not much knowledge about animals, they are not programable toys never have been and never will be they are all individuals and all puppies teethe and according to the breed and their strength destroy stuff. many breeds end up in the pounds about that stage through no fault of their own but lack of patience on the part of their owners. too much instand gratification these days

my suspicion is only the big businesses can supply the requirements that now have to be met Unless you like the olden days had sufficient outside income to keep them regardless of cost. in australia a significant number of purebred breeders are retired and their dogs are their hobby but they have been the the prime target for eradication for quite some time now. if you have more than the one or two 'pets' that are entire once its past 4 to 6 AND breed then you are easy to lable a hoarder now. If you are foolish and keep not only the ones you are breeding from but the retired then you are going to be a 'hoarder' sooner rather than later. as for the 'experts' on assessing temprement in dogs at shelters i couldnt believe they expected to assess them within 3 days? ive rehomed dogs that took 7 months to recover from the loss of their previous owner and begin trust and enjoy the company of strangers. whatever happened to patience? There are many wonderful breeds that 'suspicion of strangers' is part of the breeds description for goodness sake. only recently I rehomed a young dog who took three weeks to decide her new owners were nice after all. by the first week they were feeling pretty down that she would not come to them but just followed them, so I went back to see what was the problem. Not sure what was going on in her little head, but soon as she saw me comming she went ballistic with excitement, so much so they couldnt believe it wass the same dog. so i sat and watched the interaction with them and she was manipulating them to give her what she wanted, ie food , exeercise and nice bed but didnt trust them to touch her. so I showed them how she was trained to drop on command then instead of trying to pat her on the head scratch her under the ear and butt of the tail whereupon to their astonishment she rolled over for tummy rubs. I had showed them all this before they took her but had forgotten. and thought her standing back and just looking at them as personal rejection not misunderstading in communication by both parties was the problem. they cant believe she is the same dog now,she is so happy and joyus to be with them now, people just dont seem to know how to communicate with dogs anymore? a NORMAL adult dog is not programmed to go racing up to a total stranger and greet them as a long lost friend. only SOME dogs do that and they ARE not the majority, yet although they take longer to gain their trust they will be faitfull all their lives and not dissapper with the first stranger who walks past if the gate is left open. I cant believe these so called shelter people dont learn this and instead kill any dog that doesnt adore strangers on sight and call anything else unsocalised? ive rehomed show ring champions who can be handled by complete strangers but sure wouldnt go running to them. they know who they love and it isnt everyone you have to earn their trust and a gentle rump scratch and rub after meeting a new dog instead of thumping it on the head, is the fastest way to become their new best friend yet it astonishes me how so few people know that???? a friend couldnt understand why his dog wouldnt come to him so i watch them interacting. he never once rewarded his dog when he did come. so when he sat down beside me and slid my hand to his tail and massaged his butt. only a minute but he then followed me everywhere each time sitting beside me for another butt rub, after that all i had to to was call him and he came flying for more. once i got it thrugh to his owner that reward is worth a zillion words their problem was no more. it really doesnt take much to become friends with a strange dog or cat but you cant just expect them to like you on sight or off to the kill pen surely

Just watched the repeat. nobody mentioned the RSPCA CEO was on it. are there printouts of what was said? He said he doesnt like to see animals put down? Does that mean, Marion Alcorn's dogged horses weren't "animals?" or did I mishear?

the long and the short aNswer to that. NO

well we cant risk that can we is that fixed enough?

yes, too true, like the RSPCA for example one even lost her home, everythig,I understand, their legal fees took it all the last pages are a serious must read for anyone who thinks they cant lose all but the clothes they are wearing if they fall foul of that mob. BUT it doesnt change the fact that this is in it. $295,588.99 attract their attention and you could be next still with no ombusman or anyone else yet to run to for appeal who would want to risk being next?

Posted the same thing now about 8 times. it was scarey and weird but how about a bit of accuracy eh? or would 80,000 sound better for you? Orrrrr you could just delete them and we could move on? are you serious?????? they ARE DELETED LONG BEFORe YOU WASTED TIME AND SPACE POSTING this above? how about checking for a bit of accuracy before making your comments :laugh: I was more talking about the moving on - on your part what a cute icon love it is there one for time for a kit kat to go with the

Posted the same thing now about 8 times. it was scarey and weird but how about a bit of accuracy eh? or would 80,000 sound better for you? Orrrrr you could just delete them and we could move on? are you serious?????? they ARE DELETED LONG BEFORe YOU WASTED TIME AND SPACE POSTING this above? how about checking for a bit of accuracy before making your comments :laugh:

exactly, I chucked it in when some one reported me last month for transporting my dogs in the back of my station waggon in " tiny boxes which looked like they lived in them permanantly" yes, the inspector was very nice and agreed that the airline accredited carry cages were perfectly adequate for transportation and the fact they were now stacked with the hay and not a single dog in residence let alone near them satified her they were not being mistreated after all. interestingly all a complainant needs is to give them your number plate and look out. she kindly gave me a copy of the new u beaut conditions under which you are only allowed to breed now. since I do not even have air conditioning for myself let alone my dogs that is the end of me as a breeder. so ive surrendered all but my few pets. I simply cant risk another stringy incident, not fair to my hubbie knowing you can be slugged a minimum of the 500 per dog for "health" tests even if theres nothing wrong with it. heaven help you it it has dirty teeth or and ear infection you would be facing bankruptcy. so Im outa it. You better be aware of how dangerous financially it can be to have them and thus attract the possible costs attached as I learned with Stringy.

Posted the same thing now about 8 times. it was scarey and weird but how about a bit of accuracy eh? or would 80,000 sound better for you?

for some weird reason my orignal post repeated itself four times no idea why or how sorry.

good grief charlie brown? it repeated for a fourth time? what did I do wrong?

oops triple post? are there gremlins today?

oops double post

Oh lord.... I remember your thread. They killed ALL of them?? Didn't you offer Izzy a home? Disgusting. I wish you were on there as well telling that story. Go to the SBS Insight facebook page and post your story about Izzy! Their FB page is always open for discussion about the show I wish you luck. I was reading these posts Paul At Deathrowpets I think it is about time the public took RSPCA NSW to task on their denial of the success of the strategies of the NO KILL movement. They are our highest profile animal welfare charity, they get big sums of taxpayer monies, they get huge sums of donations and bequests - we have a right to expect that they TAKE THE LEAD in strategies of NO KIll. Yet, what do we get? - denial and excuses. Looking at the numbers , they are failing the animals. Is it time for the CEO to accept he is not up to the job and go back to being an Inspector? Annie Greenaway · Top Commenter Go back to being an Inspector????????? No Paul, it is time for the CEO to accept he is not up to the job and just leave, and take the current board with him! Annette Cater · University of Newcastle, Australia Paul, the RSPCA receives very little taxpayer money: less than 2% of its annual budget or enough for its shelters to remain open for about one day a year. Mikadie Joyce-Bates Annette Cater It is Govt subsidised when many many are not...and it makes a profit. It should be above reproach instead it's about the bottom line $$$$ to which i added When the now CEO was still an Inspector I was present when he and those with him promised in my hearing that "good homes would be found for them" if Marion Alcorn signed her ten mares, foals and yearlings over to the RSPCA. Daily phone calls to purchase these horses from private individuals including myself were answered with, they are not availabe for sale yet. When i rang again on Saturday morning I again received the same answer and said I KNOW they are available , I was present earlier this week when they were signed over. The lady then sighed and said, "well I expect it wont hurt to tell you, they were shipped to McGrath's Hill this morning. So I took off to bid on them, except! I was then present at McGrath's Hill saleyards when the same Inspector Coleman entered the sale ring and told all present and in particular the auctioneer that "NO ONE but the doggers are allowed to bid on these horses" he then had sent into the ring every one of Marion Alcorns pure arabian mares, foals and yearlings all bids only accepted by the auctioneer from the doggers. HOW DID THAT CONSITUTE FINDING THEM "GOOD HOMES"? Her horses were seized the same day the inspector came out to see them after receiving a complaint as to their condtion, they had only a week before been removed from a drought property and she was feeding them up they had free access to food and water yet 10 were taken immediately and the rest left behind. I do have Marion Alcorn's permission to tell this. And she is quite prepared to give evidence to the veracity of this. I then went on to say how some time later I too discovered the RSPCA do not follow protocol if they so choose. I had Inspector Donnelly arrive at my home and say a complaint had been received and needed to inspect my animals. AT no time would he tell me the nature of the complaint, the only reply I could elicit was that a letter would be in the mail. He even lifted the hen off her chicks and counted every chick. before he left I asked if there was anything he thought needed doing or fixed. Again the only reply I could elicit was that he would report to his superior and a letter would be in the mail. For those of you who may not know. You are fully entitled to know the nature of the complaint. You are fully entitled to know if there is something that needs to be done within a fortnight or you will be charged. I received neither information and was fully aware you cant fix what you do not know is broken. I contacted Alan Candlish who was at the time the Liason officer for Dogs NSW. He too was refused any information whatever. I sent a registered letter asking for the promised letters. It was signed for but no reply was received. I sent a second with same result. two weeks later my dog was stolen by Inspector Donnely while i was not home that Sunday. He was seized at 1pm that day, I still have the notice of seizure. He was held for 13 days and subjected to a minimum of 21 needle insertions, and anestitized and two skin plugs removed as well as tested for a variety of condtions one of which hyprathoridism which in the absence of any symptoms would constitute a 1 in 2 million chance of a posative, (opinion of CSIRO animal health vets) MY vet was refused permission every day by the seizing inspector to speak to the then rspca vet Mark Lowery. Yet my vet had been head vet for RSPCA Victoria for 6 years prior to Hugh Worth? only after all tests proved negative did i receive a phone call that i may come and pick my dog up, but not before i had to pay all costs incurred up to and including as my vet discovered checking though the invoice provided (which i still have, and its in a safe at a bank so they cant seize it now I have heard what they have done to others) the cost of a entire pack of 100 tablets yet my dog had only received one? tablet. All my vet could get dropped from the bill after a long conversation with Raelene Redford was the Kennel fees so I still had to pay over $500 to get back my dog whos blue gene alopecia, which needed no treatment whatever, didnt even have scurfy skin, just short soft coat along his rump and back to his shoulders and which my own vet had managed to diagnose at a total cost of $48 consultation fee and simply examining his coat? Yet according to the then Minister for Agriculture the Right Honourable Richard Amery, I should be glad that "a proper workup had been completed" that the RSPCA had done nothing outside the law, the entire distressing episode simply an "unfortunate lack of communication on both sides" so? just because they are supposed to tell you the nature of the complaint. just because you are supposed to know what the inspector thinks is a chargable offence if he chooses not to tell you and seize the object two weeks later is not acting outside the law. very comforting to know from the minister is it not? Today and then, there is still NO AVENUE of appeal when this happens and no sign of any such in the future. The RSPCA is not answerable to the government, their only requirement is to table a report of their yearly activities NOTHING ELSE. The climate encouraged by society is that to be under the scrutiny of the RSPCA you must deserve it anyway. So the vast majority of people are too scared to own up to what has happend to them and their animals. The case of Rosemary and Sam D'Agistono over their stud bull was another case in point of RSPCA ARROGANCE. a complaint was lodged by a disgruntled neighbour that their bull was tethered too short to the point of cruelty. the bull was in Gunnedah, the Inspector was in Tamworth. The inspector made no effort to come and see the conditions under which he was in. She phoned and demanded the bull be set free. It was explained the bull had a hoof infection and was under treatment and on a 25 foot tether with access to a shed with shade and feed and water while a bull yard was being finished, as he could not be turned loose as he was on hard feed being prepared for show and the irrigated paddocks were full of 6 to 9 inch high clover which would kill him if he had access to it. Yet she then sent two constables to either supervise the bull being let loose or arrest Sam and Rose and turn the bull loose. Being raised on the land they too knew to follow such and order would lead to a high risk of the bull bloating but that they HAD to follow the orders of the RSPCA Inspector. so they suggested they turn him loose and Rose keep him walking so he couldnt eat enough of the clover to risk his life while Sam finished the yard. since being in jail ment the bull was left with no one to help him if it happened. so the yard was finished about 4am the next morning and the bull safe. Rose was 65 and her husband 70 odd. she too is happy to speak to anyone about this incident. Interestingly every bit of what I posted was removed completly, some 30 minutes later. so good luck anyone who posts anything specific about them.

I think people got confused as the OP stated he was registered, and was talking about breeding, so people assumed he was actually registered! one thing I have learned ever since microchipping came in, how many people think the microchip papers mean their puppy is "registered"

I gather you missed the bit about he did not come with any papers not even a copy of his parents pedigree so certainly not from a breeder who wants to admit the parents may be pedigreed. I met a chap who bought his puppy from a registered breeder but he was given the option of limit or main register almost double the price of the same pup with no papers even though the parents were registered and the pups kept by the breeder registered, so you cant assume anything about the parentage or the seller in that case. rather made me wonder how may are doing that? I darent name names as even the breeder of his previous pet that died of old age before this new one are pretty well known. if he wants to reoport them I think I should leave it to him, I did tell him the practice as far as I am aware is not allowed in the rules for pedigree breeders. that all live pups must be registeered either limit or main. You said he's registered, but is he actually mains registered? I don't think so I don't know his lineage as well. I dint buy him from a breeder. Bought him from a lady who sold in gumtree. I have had him since he was 8 weeks old. He was/is a gorgeous boi. Love him to pieces. It is a shame that I would have to de-sex him without passing on his good looks. I love dogs and he is my first dog. He has changed my life so much and have never seen such loyalty with any other living being in this world. I am emotional but I will go with your advice. I don't want to pass on any bad genes since I dont have his lineage. Thanks and regards, Paz

Forgot to add, the sudden exit was nothing to do with a spider. a MOTH was fluttering along the inside of the windscreen hence why I never accepted another offer to go in a vehicle again.

Yes Its weird how they seem to gravitate to cars. I quite like spiders, far cheaper for eliminating mozzies and flies than oodles of cans of fly spray. But I tend to draw the line when the huntsman decides to come out of hiding and fall into my lap while driving.......uuuuuuuuuuuggggggg no i didnt jump out of the car. He/she had the decency to scoot back into hiding. Although I will never ever forget the day i was a passenger in a friends car when she opened the drivers door and jumped out leaving me and car to roll down the driveway of the property we had just been about to leave. thank god it stoped safely, will ever wonder if she would do the same thing at 60 k ? N no never accepted an offer to go with her again anywhere if she was driving.

Interesting thread and good advice. My sister has a sort of problem, her old dog died recently at 16 so bought two puppies related to her original dog, both are on main register as was the original dog as she prefers the option to be able to show or breed one day. The family of these girls has very good health and soundness records. having said that her previous girl she never did, young children and their classes got in the way. The other day she made comment about the attitude of her vet when she took them for their third vaccinations. She couldnt believe the pressure they put on her to book them for desexing? Went home far from happy at the pressure put on her over the issue so much so she rang me and asked whats going on? she was left feeling that unless she is activly showing her girls then she had no right to leave them entire that she was in some way abusing her dogs. there is no way they can get out nor ever let wander the streets so absolutly no possiblilty of a accidental mating, 16 years of past history surely proves that. She died of old age no complication from living her whole 16 years undesexed and yes i know some can develop problems particularly the males as said above. She is certainly not happy with the attitude of her vet now. I too have noticed the new generation of vets do not seem to even approve of registered breeders, one or two I have met working at my usual vets as locums have voiced the opinion that to breed a litter even a purebred litter only fuels the number of dumped dogs and rescues should be the preferred options for those wanting a pet. wonder where they think the next generation of patients is going to come from? or do they want to be out of a job after they have desexed every patient that comes through the door? is it only me who wonders where the next generation will come from if that happens to all of them

trouble is the biggest pup in a litter at 8 weeks can end up the smallest at adulthood. I will never forget giving the tiny to my friend as a pet, keeping the one three times her sized then by 18 months and the "tiny " already desexed so what do they turn out? mine made 1.3 kg hers grew to 3 kg

Weird isnt it. Not even the breeder knows how big they will grow or for that matter which will really turn out to be the best of the litter. Can only do an (we hope) educated guess. What I dont think is fair, if when we get it wrong we cannot call the new owner of the pet we sold that turned out to be the "show" quality one after all for it to be returned and give them their money back or exchange the pet quality one. Yet how many times have we heard the purchaser of a main registered pup told they are entitled to exchange or refund if the mistake is the other way around? Surely it should work both ways?