asal

That is never going to happen. so do we all just stop trying evrytime something is difficult?? - seems a bit defeatist Alright, you go out and try to keep a wandering hunting dog on a particular protected parcel of land, when slow moving sheep are just over there, you take all the farmer's guns so that he can't shoot the dingoes when they don't notice that they've walked into unprotected land and kill his stock, you take all his dogs away so that there's never any chance of a dingo to dog mating and he can just bring the stock in without dogs. Exactly. This is the real world, national parks dont have dog proof fences, they dont even have kangaroo proof fences. I remember counting 200 kangaroos in among a friends cattle one morning. His property was beside what????????? National Park. Imagine the screaming if he then allowed his cattle to shift into the next neighbours for a feed now the National park kangaroo's had cleaned his place out of feed? we dont live in the ideal world.

Do not mistake me. That is definitely not what I believe is the right thing to do with a dingo kept as a pet. She was an exceptional girl. There could have been instead a very busy dingo, cleaning out every chook yard within travel distance. As well as every pet and wild bird and rabbit catchable or pen it could break into. The same happens though with just about every other breed of dog allowed to roam. Certainly NOT just Dingo's. My pet rabbit or her run wasn’t torn to pieces by the dingo next door. That slaughter was done by the German shepherd from over the road. Only recently one of my neighbors’ goats were torn apart and still left alive by a German Shepherd who’s owner emphatically denied it ever left his yard. He did not have much to say when it was shot some days later back inside the goats paddock when it returned for another go at them.

As for the original topic, people have kept Dingo's as pets ever since Australian settlement, with none of the related problems associated with the importation of the dog fighting breeds. So I do not understand why they should be descriminated against, there has always only been a small segment of the population attracted to keeping a dingo and even if what would seem completely unsuitable hands, eg my neighbour,(they never fenced her in, she could go when or where she pleased in a completely suburban environment, since they lived on the corner of a main road, she early displayed the quick learning by never being run over, she preferred to stay home, patrol her home yard and to a lesser degree the surrounding footpath, visited only the nearer neighbours, there was never a problem with their dingo.

Gee, thanks for taking the trouble. Yes it’s very hard. I for one was aghast when even the first pit bull was allowed into the country. The feral’s already had their status dogs. Adding these guys as well as the other's that have been named, to the gene pool was a disaster in the making and it has proven to be just that. There is no fix now, it’s never going to be just the dangerous ones targeted . I have no idea what solution could be found. As it is, the peta/rspca (rspca sent out letter's to all members warning that Peta intended infiltrating and taking over) faction intends the whole solution will be no canines of any breed let alone x bred’s. The war on pedigrees once won, it is being won, make no mistake about that. Just look at the falling numbers of registered breeders. Once they have been taken care of it will be every canine targeted next for elimination. Find me a vet who does not advocate desexing of all that enter their surgery? There is no encouragement for anyone to breed. Seems they don't twig, once there are no breeders they are out of a job within the lifespan of those left? As I understand it, there is now legislation either in place or being drafted (cant remember) that "Hoarding" is now a legal justification for removing someones animals. the defination being more than X number on the property. Doesnt matter how good their condition. How many have been told that anyone who breeds and does not keep any of their elder dogs are puppy farmers? Those who do keep the previous generation, will fall under 'hoarders'.

Regarding what you said in red, yes I know this is true, these types of dogs are a race apart from the ones belonging to responsible people. The parents and pups are selected for aggression; many for generations, these dogs are just about a subspecies of the breed they are descended from. That is why I don’t support BSL. Visually you cannot tell the difference. Temperamentally though, a world apart. When I was a child there were parts of the town I grew up in that you simply did not go there unless with a friend who was part of that world. Or the dogs would not be called off if they went for you. The attack on sight ones that could not be called off, usually lived out their lives on chains until wanted. I am stumped how you can feel dingo’s can be lumped into that group at all, they are nothing like those dogs whatsoever. The ones I have met have assimilated easily, only those who know dingo’s have recognised what they are. Joe public wouldn’t have a clue. ACD's display many of the same traits, that’s why the dingo was added to their genes. They are smart, intuitive, certainly not by nature savage, although ACD’s certainly will protect whatever they perceive as their owners property (even a soiled nappy, discarded by it's toddler) and their owner. Although there are still failures, I well remember a lady asking if she put her ACD in pup maybe that would make her more maternal towards her new baby. THAT is definatly NOT ACD temprement. She could not let her ACD into the same room as her new baby, she would immediately seek to attack the child. It was very hard to get her to understand, that dog was dangerous and not to be bred from, or ever allowed access to her child. (My own parents and anyone I knew would have put the dog down as not worth the risk, she would not consider that). By contrast when our grandchildren were born, both Rosie and Benni took one sniff at the new arrivals and any time our daughter in law took the babies out in the stroller there were two "guard" dogs stationed either side of her and the stroller, eyeing off any one else in the street. Just in case, as Benni and Rosie would have told you.

I agree with you it is the people who use dogs as an ego tool that need legislating about. Breeching Civil Liberties is a very hard accusation to get past. I think the politicians took the easier route. targeting the breeds of dog instead of the mindset of such people who teach their dogs to be weapons. any breed can be set to be a weapon of attack, but different breeds and types have cyclonic times of fashion. Some are petrifyingly efficient. I think i would rather be attacked by a toy poodle, chi or any other smrf than a pit bull, rottie, dobe or german shepherd which have tended to be the breeds of choice , although now the neo and logoto have been added to the mix, pig dogs in all their forms are popular as well. aust cattledogs id rather face too, id rather my ankle or leg gone for than torn to the ground and shredded, like the afore mentioned breeds, yes i was born to acd's in the yard. ,the highest bite i can recall from a very affonted dog was the backside of a vet who insisted he would not allow anyone to carry his bag to the car. He had just vaccinated the dogs. It was dad's turn to be affonted when the vet had the hide to send dad the bill for his new suit. holes in the coat and the trouser's apparently. Dads dogs were guard dogs in the true and real sense. no one was allowed to put anything in their vehicles except the staff. All the customers knew the rules, the staff sure did, the dogs knew the rules. the vet was a nit. they were the days before video camera to prevent theft. very effective. :) shoplifting just didnt happen well that was in the 50's though another world now isnt it.

So because Azaria (RIP) was killed by a dingo, an individual dingo, you are now condemning the whole dingo race as wild, untrustworthy creatures that should remain where they are? I fear you have had very little to do with a well raised pet dingoes. sorry missed that the first time - YES, YES, YES thats EXACTLY and ALL i am saying. someone finally gets it. OK don't get rude. since your reply in purple to what is said in red then how can what you said be interpreted as any but pro Breed Specific Legislation? getting all snarly doesnt change that. actually it wasnt me who decided you must be a troll. believe it or not others in the house were reading it too. made the suggestion and found the song for you. incidently that chap is a world famous singer. worth listening too anyway. far more children (and adults) have died from the attacks of known domestic breeds if the papers are to be believed. The excuse for the introduction of BSL in the first place. then you cite one and condem a race? Same mindset, same waste of innocent lives for any that are judged to 'look' like. might be worth the effort to remove a littlie of the froth n foam from your previous post just realised you said "proffesional BSL troll"? In the debates I and the family n friends there has always been the Pro side and the Con side. Pro BSL means 'FOR BSL' Pro means 'for' and con means 'against'

the reason many now chip the pups directly into the new owners name has nothing to do with "hiding" it is all to do with not having to issue double paperwork per pup and if the new owner does not pay the registration the councils may take from 5 to 7 years to notice and who has to tell them where that pup they bred that long ago now is? with no informtion bar the chip number to go on? I well remember the panic of one friend sent a list of some 14 dogs and trying to find 5 to 7 year old record books n the chips are not in numerical order. in my case i took 3 hours over the deadline to advise the dog with that number was dead. so copped a 168 fine for dog that had died 6 years before.no ifs buts or appeal either.... so keep your records where you can find them no matter how old. i have never put any but the owner ever since. be it a buyer or me if i kept it.

[quote name=orrd' timestamp='1350369506' post='5988028] So because Azaria (RIP) was killed by a dingo, an individual dingo, you are now condemning the whole dingo race as wild, untrustworthy creatures that should remain where they are? I fear you have had very little to do with a well raised pet dingoes. sorry missed that the first time - YES, YES, YES thats EXACTLY and ALL i am saying. someone finally gets it. Oh , so we have a pro BSL troll in our Midst

Thank goodness, you are wondering the same as me. As to the confusion as to whether the Australian Dingo is a "wild" or feral dog. One must look at the orign of the animal. This extract from a journal article written by Savolainen et al. (2004) can give some in sight (please see full reference at the bottom of this post.) " The dingo originated from a population of East Asian dogs. Type A29 was one of several domestic dog mtDNA types brought into Island Southeast Asia, but only A29 reached Australia. The dingo population was probably founded from a small number of animals, as the last trickle of domestic dogs through a series of bottlenecks, or even by a single chance event and has since remained effectively isolated from other dog populations. The dingoes may have arrived in connection with the expansion, starting ≈6,000 yr ago, from south China into Island Southeast Asia of the Austronesian culture. By this time, domestic dogs had existed for several thousand years (4, 11), and the present semidomestic state of the dingo can probably be attributed to a long existence as a feral animal. After >3,500 years of isolation, the dingoes represent a unique isolate of early undifferentiated dogs. " From this we can conclude that the dingo is not a truly wild breed of dog, but semidomesticated to feral breed. Hence more likely to integrate well into a cohabitation enviroment with humans. Anecdotal evidence has shown that dingo can be a more sociable animal than some recognized breeds of domestic dog. Savolainen, P. Leitner, T. Wilton, A,N. Matisoo-Smith,E. Lundeberg, J. (2004) A detailed picture of the origin of the Australian dingo, obtained from the study of mitochondrial DNA. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. Vol. 101 no. 33 12387-12390 Link to full article below. http://www.pnas.org/content/101/33/12387.full

do i take it you feel he should have let her die that day? well does that mean you feel your opinion is more valid than that of those who choose to save a life? What make you think your opinion is more valid than that of those who do not have the same? maybe its my turn to go, eh????

well? you did ask who and why would someone 'want' a dingo. as my neighbour fitted neither of your categories. neither has most people ive met who ended up with one.

mmm come to think of it, there a lot of people too dumb to ever end up any but the servant of an acd. they arent for the lap dog lovers. leave one of these guys to their own devices and the games can be somewhat destructive and thats saying a lot. their jaws are just as strong as a dingo. just survey your boots after being rounded up and used as dental floss. or even worse your best going out shoes

erm, i dont own a purebred dingo never have. unless you count the Australian Cattledog? the neighbour did not go seeking to have a dingo. he felt sorry for the little golden pup about to have its brains knocked out against the pub bar. she came home with him, she had a happy life and no one but the few who knew her story were any the wiser. that tends to be the story behind the majority of surburban dingos. that add is the first ive ever seen for any 'for sale' and it was brought to my attention where? here at least they are a pure breed so it at least fits the forum guidelines. I live with a ex jackaroo, many of his friends are what the kids (now adults) call "bushie heros". these men grew up in a world no city slikers knows existed. my friend Les Ellery drove his first bullock team at 8 years old. held his first full time job at 11. my hubby is of the same generation as are his mates and workmates, I have a pool of knowledge to draw on that is beyond any google search. hubby was looking through a window one day watching some surgeons hooking up to do a op. they were short of an anesethist, he got hooked into the room and on the job training, who were they and what where they doing? learning to do heart transplants. no guesses who these amazing men were surely. only recently he was in hospital and a doctor couldnt get the vein in hubbys arm. after enduring half a dozen aborted (n by the look of agony on his face not too gentle) attempts hubby offered to teach the now flustered doctor how to 'tap for a vein'. lesson finished instant insertion, the fully qualified doc couldnt believe how easily it could be done when taught properly. this ole chap has taught generations of vets how to do the same thing yet he has no PHD. the knowledge of these men is awesome and as i was told by bill law, you never stop learning until your dead. have fun kiddies

http://www.dingoconservation.org.au/dingo-social.html This is exactly how Rokeglen Red Rhyme (main registered Red cattledog) would feed her pups the minute she considered they were ready for meat. Pity the selected menu item was invariably my best layer. the chooks were safe anyother time........sigh still miss the ole girl , got her in 1983. she sure was a goodun, a yank offered me 3,000 for her the minute he saw her. I believe her descendants are scattered round the globe now, he bought all the pups a friend had bred from one of her daughters as well as the daughter when i didnt want to sell. "The gestation period is sixty three days and the average litter size is three to five pups. The entire pack will care for the young, regurgitating meat to pups as young as three weeks of age. Pups will commence eating solids at approximately three weeks of age and will often be weaned by the time they are six weeks of age."

here u go http://www.dingoconservation.org.au/dingo-physical.html

forget where but theres a population of em just dont remember where. n dont forget the occasional white one.....loverly sure puts the smarts into the crosses the owners tell me.

Because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make their 'tone' grating (how you read tone into a post written on a forum is totally up to you anyway). While I might not agree with all their points, I too am against the vast majority of people keeping exotic/wild animals for pets too. It isn't for the animals benefit - it is for the person's. A camp dingo is very different from a dingo living in the burbs because 'OMG it is soooo cute". I find their tone grating because they're labeling everyone who has a pet dingoes as selfish attention seekers basically. A lot of people would disagree with having a LGD as a family pet in suburbia as well, it doesn't mean it can't happen and it certainly doesn't mean you want it for status or "novelty". If people can provide a dingo with a good life, with everything it needs, then it sure beats being shot by a farmer. Dingoes are NOT wolves, Dingoes are descended from domestic Asiatic dogs and are basically feral and not truly wild. The notion that everyone who owns a dingo is cruel is what I find grating. how on earth walking a dingo anywhere could be construed as 'attention seeking" beats me. 99.9 % of people wouldnt even realise that goldi looking mutt was a dingo, most would think it was a cattledog n missedout on the mottling. the black and tans easily pass for a kelpie. n saints preserve us its no accident either, I sure know the cattledog is part dingo. ditto for some kelpies

thank goodness the dingo will never attract the attention of the macho's who just have to have a pit bull or any of the other fighting breeds as an extension of their egos. they tend to be the owners of the attacking breeds, far too many even encourage their dogs to be agressive, these are the people who put these breeds into the headlines. making life a misery for the good responsible owners of these same breeds. no dingo would contribute to a scary image or attract the dog fighting fraternity luckily for them.

now you are drawing a long bow. Wild dingos, encouraged into camps especially hungry ones can and have killed children. I for one have never heard or seen a post that a domesticated dingo in the suburbs or cities and there they are there, usually brought back from outback trips, like the neighbours girl, ever attacked or killed someones smf walking past or its owner . theres a lot of headlines of supposedly fully domesticated breeds doing it though. just surf this forum. no need to google. as for chucking in the birds? wasnt the subject you brought up the tourists enticing the dingos in and they being shot as a result? as i remember children have been savaged and killed on frazer island . i know a chap, well a few who work with the exhibited dingos at various parks. they are kept securely fenced in and not one of them consider entering their pens dangerous, I doubt that can be said of any of the overseas carnivors on exhibit though. one chap was crying when he retired knowing he would be no longer able to play with his charges any more . he would have loved to take his favourite home.

Frankly Fraser Island is pretty much a disgrace, there are times of the year there when the dingos are starving. they are hunter scavengers, to allow people into frazer island during these times is stupid and cruel to both the people and the dingos. any opportunity for a free feed will be taken, not just tourists wanting photos as was assumed. If the authorities honestly belive its ok for natural selection to cull the weakest during these times at least they should close the park until the dingos have died and there is sufficient food available. just because they are not as big, powerful and dangerous and bears doesnt change the fact the authorities allow the public into a national park during a time of starvation. bears that come in and scavenge in the visitor areas are caught and removed well away to prevent their return. the Frazer Island dingos have no such luxury, they are there and few take the sea escape route to the mainland if any. If the authorites knowing the dingos are in starvaton times why dont they cull some so the survivors dont end up so hungry some decide a child might be just as tasty as a wallaby? or if they still want tourists there, put feeding stations out in the bush where no tourists are?

yes I thought thats what was meant as well, but I dont thing Oord realises there are plenty of camp dingo's still living with aboringinals besides the the genuine wild ones. as for neighbours pup, if her husband had not rescued her, her life would have ended in that pub. it wasnt a question of her ever being returned to her mum. she ended up having a very happy and well adjusted life in the burbs. she certainly had no idea she was supposed to be a wild animal

think it might be an idea to phone the specalists if your in nsw. I bred two girls that lucky for me he was their normal vet. they were both fine until they were 7 and and 6 . years old that is , not months. they began limping within a few weeks of each other, taken to him, he diagnosed patella and gave the quote for the op. their darling owner told him to send me the bill direct. it was something around 3,000 dollars and that was over 6 years ago maybe more anyway he told her forget that one, they have had nothing wrong every check until now. what have you changed at home. new bed twice the height .. successful op pillows placed as a ladder so no more jumping and no more probems. fortunately in each only one leg had been injoured, the other leg remained ok after the jumping stopped. one is now 16 so she has remained sound for 10 years the other unfortunately died in an accident.

yep and you can put them in the boot when your going out with the pup as well. on the ends makes them taller or extra panels added for a roof for the climbers. I use the $1 cheapie boat type clips from super cheap auto to clip em together although the stronger ones last forever .

Then there is whose defination of 'ethical' you believe. I know you really cant tell by how nice the person or the set up. for example there are places where roll the mum over and there is not one that has not had their pups delivered by ceaser. not because the breed has a problem. the breeder and the vet firmly believe its better to pay for a ceaser and avoid losing any pups. the same vet also belives its perfectly fine to not only remove the pups but the entire uterus after delivery when its the second or third litter. no bitch there ever gets to deliver for herself not even first time mums, so they wake up to "what is that attacking me" some pups die because their new mum is terrified of them, but hey the breeder is absolutely ethical. never have more than three litters , most only two. never sells any on main register. most dont even go on limit, there are three prices and 99% decide on not even limit. any future mums if they mature and develop a fault that may cause an unhappy buyer the cost of raising her is recouped by x breeding and selling the designers with their hybrid vigor. n again ceasered n desexed at the same time. I know the vet who does this as routine and has trained his customers this is best practice. I know because I met him. I darent say where or who. so its not just one breeder doing this and believing this is 'ethical' I know my vet would never do that. As he said, you have removed a huge resevoir of nutrient and blood of the now nursing mum, if you want to save money on desexing her on delivery, instead of when she has recovered from nursing and then desexed, dont come to me.