asal

Maybe she has seen too many adds like the one I saw on tv about buying the right car for your fur baby? Not too far a step to someone thinking? maybe? nursing is as well It is actually the done thing in some societies. Although its to raise baby animals that would otherwise die.

Trying to find the Judy Guard thread. did find this. seems its still applicable, wonder what the next definition will be. Posted 08 December 2010 - 12:56 AM There is a contest at University of New Brunswick calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term. This year's term was: "Political Correctness". The winner wrote: "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end." More and more I get the suspicion this is the way new laws are pretty much formulated these days

You do seem to be making some rather passionate assumptions about people you have never met? Dingo's too for that matter. With regard to Judy, it's law now in Victoria, if a dog born in Victoria, is debarked in another state of australia it can never be "exhibited/shown" in Victoria if it is owned by a Victorin resident. Before you get going about the evils of debarking, the RSPCA DEBARKS TOO. Its just that they believe its their way or the highway, in Judy's case the jail. Penalty for each offence 1 year in jail. Judy Guard debarked 13 of her show dogs because her neighbour had cancer and found any noise distressing. she rehomed one and the new owner took it for a checkup, the vet was very pro rspca and reported the dog and its breeder, it was an ex showdog. even went so far as to euthanize the dog on the grounds that it was not properly socialised. Apparently the dog did not like the vet. RSPCA seized 13 of her dogs, she pleaded guilty but unlike the RSPCA who insisted "their hands were tied, she had broken the law" when asked to drop the charges and return the dogs. the magistrate had no such problems and despite her guilty plea, dismissed the case. If the magistrate had not decided to use his discretion she by law was facing 77 years, cancellation of her membership and no longer be allowed to breed or show her tibetian's , think that was the breed, either way the breed standard describes the breed as "suspicious of strangers" thanks to the RSPCA'S temprement testing, a "breed trait" can mean a death sentance now. theres a whole thread on her ordeal. anyone? where is it?

Honest, I dont want to offend you. but I just had this irrisistable urge to ask. you are obviously passioniate. that doesnt make you right though. the world never was black and white, letting yourself realise there are thousands of shades in between can be very painful learning when the passion doesnt want to admit that. but then again? Wasnt it this kind of passion that got Judy Guard facing 77 years jail? so yes passion can sure get tougher and tougher laws passed to control even who you can take to a dog show now or face jail for doing so :cool:

many dingo owners like to emphasise how "just like any other dog-ish" their dingo is, if they are so ordinarily dog like then why not just get a regular dog?? can't wait for the day that there is nothing left of novelty/rare/exotic marketting to been exploit just for novelty, the focus for breeders will then have to shift from novelty/rare to actual quality which would be too much of a jump for most; hmm whats left to exploit, we've done the LGD's,done dingoes, basenji's, NSD's, mountain XXX dogs, the completed program to remove all functional working traits from the working breeds by show breeders....be a brief period of staring at each other wondering which bandwagon next...ah just start making up a history, a good story and a standard and registry to tell the lie, Boerbell anyone. Oord, you really do need to stop trying to pidgeon hole people like that. the real facts are the great majority of dingo's end up in a pet home because they were rescues. as long as we have the right to rescue a baby any species people will and frankly ive never seen one end up dumped in some rescue society's pen not trying to pidgeaon hole but if the pidgeon hole fits.... Who? You? is it comfy :)

many dingo owners like to emphasise how "just like any other dog-ish" their dingo is, if they are so ordinarily dog like then why not just get a regular dog?? can't wait for the day that there is nothing left of novelty/rare/exotic marketting to been exploit just for novelty, the focus for breeders will then have to shift from novelty/rare to actual quality which would be too much of a jump for most; hmm whats left to exploit, we've done the LGD's,done dingoes, basenji's, NSD's, mountain XXX dogs, the completed program to remove all functional working traits from the working breeds by show breeders....be a brief period of staring at each other wondering which bandwagon next...ah just start making up a history, a good story and a standard and registry to tell the lie, Boerbell anyone. you comment doesnt even enter 90% of the equation of people who end up with a dingo. Oord, you really do need to stop trying to pidgeon hole people like that. the real facts are the great majority of dingo's end up in a pet home because they were rescues. as long as we have the right to rescue a baby any species people will and frankly ive never seen one end up dumped in some rescue society's pen. Why not? because they knew what they were getting into. unlike so many ooooooh arent they cute........petstore purchases.

Thanks for the reply, I didn't decide to go with them anyway. Just too much what if's and I really want to go it right. I wouldn't be able to go see their home or parents beforehand because we are interstate. Just more waiting :) Outside of the dodginess of the 'breeder' in question, I'd just like to point out that you don't have to see the home or parents in order to get a puppy from an ethical breeder. This 'you must see the pups and their environment' is a crock. Yes, but its a very effective 'crock' to pressure you into letting complete strangers case your home and decide what dogs, or anything else they fancy they want. Thats how I met what I now know are two professional break and enter families. The first I know by sight, actually even have the phone number but never got them caught as the pups dissappered, no evidence no conviction. I expect few remember the case of the two stolen Cavalier puppies Fire and Tilly. They were finally found and the thieves charged and convicted. But considering the husband had 6 pages of convictions it was all in a days work. Doubly disturbing keeping the family company before being called for the sentencing were two chaps that are regularly seen cruising the neighbourhood, havent been caught breaking and entering but considering the charged couple live in the region of Campbelltown and they and their friends have been seen regularly in and around the Penrith area. In the case of the friends, hubby took their ute number the day he saw them driving down a neighbours driveway and the police said there is no such number plate registered, they told hubby do not go near them they may be armed and dangerous, their friends, the couple who took my pups, when arrested had both knives and a gun in their vehicle. Yet, you will be labled 'unethical' if you refuse to let anyone who calls " see the pups and their environment" I am talking over a 25 year period since meeting the first family and the pair that were caught, they were about 4 years ago. Ihave seen the first in the area off and on over the years. only last christmas 5 houses across the road were robbed one even had the owner in her gym in the garage and she didnt know a thing until she walked back into her house. Australia isnt a classless society after all.

This does ring alarm bells for me, I have to say.. I have an 11 year old poodle x that we got (11 years ago) from an ad in the paper, and in hindsight all the signs of a puppy farm of very dodgy situation were there, but we didn't realise at the time. It was the same situation - the woman's "friend" was the one with the mum and this woman was just helping her while the actual owner was away. Got to the house, there was just one pup there, and we got her. She was supposedly a poodle x bichon, but there's just no way in hell.. Obviously now I wouldn't change her for the world and she's my little heart dog. But looking back, I'm sure she's from dodgy circumstances. I'm not saying that the person you called isn't the real deal, because god, how would I know. But just.. keep your wits about you and don't be fooled by a cute puppy! It takes a strong will to walk away from a cute puppy, as well all know, but make it a head decision, not a heart one :) Thanks for this :) I am trying really hard to be patient! Really, really hard. I've just ordered a few smallish things to prepare. There will be a puppy in this house one day, I just have to find the right one. And you will! Just like all the good things in life, the more you wait, the better it is in the end. In a few weeks/months, you'll having a puppy in your arms, think back to think back to this thread and go 'THANK GOD I WAITED!!! Otherwise I wouldn't have this little one!!' ETA - another suggestion is that, when you go and visit breeders, don't take money with you, unless it's for a deposit (and even then, think about it..). I purposefully DIDN'T take money when I went to visit a breeder to meet a dog I was interested in, because I knew that once I met her I'd be smitten and want to take her then and there. Which happened - I tried not to, but I fell in love. I even loved her more than her little pup, who I met! (Thankfully my partner had brought deposit money along as a backup without telling me and we gave the deposit and took her home a few weeks later, when her pups were sold and she'd been desexed etc). But still, sometimes making things a bit harder is better in the long run. It pays to be patient, you end up getting exactly what you are looking for. It took me 6 months to find a puppy that ticked all the boxes for my sister when she wanted a cavalier. Amazing how many couldnt tick the no henia box, or no dogs older than 10 which was also in the tick box. the breeder we ultimately found had 11 and 13 year olds. That was 16 years ago. Today its a no win situation, any breeder keeping their retired dogs today is a sitting duck for being labled a "hoarder" and that alone can now be used to seize your dogs. Then if all retired breeding dogs have been rehomed then the "puppy farmer" label sticks neatly instead. The welfare groups have both breeders covered under the 'unethical' banner now. Very neat as for looking for a really good breeding quality, that takes a lot of luck as much as the same degree of patience.

This does ring alarm bells for me, I have to say.. I have an 11 year old poodle x that we got (11 years ago) from an ad in the paper, and in hindsight all the signs of a puppy farm of very dodgy situation were there, but we didn't realise at the time. It was the same situation - the woman's "friend" was the one with the mum and this woman was just helping her while the actual owner was away. Got to the house, there was just one pup there, and we got her. She was supposedly a poodle x bichon, but there's just no way in hell.. Obviously now I wouldn't change her for the world and she's my little heart dog. But looking back, I'm sure she's from dodgy circumstances. I'm not saying that the person you called isn't the real deal, because god, how would I know. But just.. keep your wits about you and don't be fooled by a cute puppy! It takes a strong will to walk away from a cute puppy, as well all know, but make it a head decision, not a heart one :) I fell for EXACTLY the same deal when I bought a Poodle X Maltese for my mum 20 years ago that had been advertised in the Newspaper. In hindsight I wonder alot about the history of that puppy, where it had come from, whether it had been stolen etc. etc. as there were NO doggy things in the house at all. SHE was a tiny thing and didn't grow up to resemble either of those breeds....kind of a terrier mix. Live and learn! when you buy a mutt you have no idea what its going to end up like, designer dogs are mutts, always were always will be, no matter what new spin is put on crossbreds. putting two different breeds together anything in their makeup can come out or now show at all. I dont think designer breeders have to worry about being or not being ethical or not yet.

Unless you have a chance to confirm anything they say, I'd not automtically assume they are legit. Then again, I'm a cynic by nature. The "caring for the bitch as the owner was away" is a red flag for me! yes an "ethical" breeder would not trust anyone else to 'care' for their dogs if anything caused them, to be 'away' from them surely or did I get it wrong as usual, and an 'ethical' would never be 'away' under any circumstances? always think the worst of people is the new 'ethic' is it? I do try to find the funny side, I do think the optimists of this world have a far nicer time.

Don't know where you get that idea from. this forum is discussing that very thing including basenji crosses. http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?7456-Why-do-breeders-mix-Basenjis-with-other-breeds Dingo in the Australian Cattledog as well this one you can click on the names to see the Basenji mix dogs named http://www.basenjirescue.org/DOGS-MIXES/AZ/AZ-Stickerz.asp pretty as a picture n a bsl breed in the mix as well http://www.basenjirescue.org/DOGS-MIXES/CT/CT-Millie.asp

I'm sorry but Kangaroos should be able to feed on any patch of grass they want. This is the sentiment that really frustrates me... us humans need to co-exist with wild (native/indigenous) animals not exclude them for economic/financial gain. Anyway this is going off-topic, I think we have answered the original question. I'm out of here not entirely actually, most domesticated dingo's come from litters found when farmers are eradicating the parents from their stock. How many visitors to country stations end up taking home a dingo pup or baby kangaroo whose mum was either shot or run over. as an awful lot come out of national parks before their unfortunate meetings with landholders or cars, then the survivors can end up in pet homes and adjust remarkably well. I dont know of any domesticated species of roo's? but they sure tame well. My only objection was when some decide to "mark"/pee near the house. it smells just as bad as mouse pee except the volume means the stink is expeditionaly stronger. Pet Dingo's dont stink the place out.

you don't need to look up official surveys. Just ask every one you meet, is your dog a registered purebred? I know the answers, Ive done the asking. My reasearch has been around if not more of the percentages quoted. for example I think there were less than 70 registered pure bred Stumpy Tailed cattledogs, anywhere. When classification was started to select 'foundation' dogs to breed back upto ANKC registration I think from memory some 3,000 dogs turned up for classification. so the hidden gene pool is immense compared to the 'registered' gene pool. without even touching on pound numbers and their stats.

you are also forgetting that it is also true that 90% of "breeds" eg pits,dobermans,rotties and german shepherds, just to name some are not or ever from ANKC breeders. the majority of our "breeds" are bred by the unknown, untracable breeders . they are not expected to 'inform' the purchaser of the puppy being handed over found this link http://www.leabashiba.com/german_shepherd_dog_club_austral.htm you can still find the original dogs still in existance among the australian backyard population. I expect such dogs will be used to "save" the ANKC breeds like was done with the Stumpy Tailed Cattledog. (there was in the end only one registered breeder of STC's if you dont know that) if they do not end up closed down as a registry due to insufficient number of both breeds and breeders.

trouble is the solution seems to be, get rid of the ANKC breeders . then decide IF that solved the problem. getting a bit away from the dingo issue to a degree maybe

"Preaching to the choir on that. However you're the one who made a blanket statement that it "should be harder for breeders". Crikey, how much harder do you want it to be for responsible breeders when there are plenty of "breeders" out there who don't pay any attention to the laws they are subject to now??? " EXACTLY haredownwippets. a significant proportion of the untraceabl's neither vaccinate nor microchip nor for that matter even worm the parents let alone the pups. let alone one of their dogs ever see a vet in its lifetime. get impounded? get another from the same source it came from

exactly"There are no simple answers to complex problems and "desex em all" only harms the responsible. Vets cant' desex dogs they never see and a not insignificant proportion of the sources of unwanted dogs fit into that category." Remember being told by a local vet. That the source of sudden parvo outbreaks after strong windstorms was because for example "Mt Druitt has the largest population of unvaccinated dogs in the Sydney basin" drive the streets of that suburb and they are filled with loose dogs. scan the for sale sites at the local supermarkets and theres every breed you could imagine avaiable for purchase and a pretty nominal amount on the main, although pitt bulls tend to command the highest prices listed. I cannot recall many logotto listed on dogzonline. Saw a entire litter listed at my local supermarket which certainly was not in Mt Druitt. as said, 80 percent of dogs are not bred by registered breeders. 99 percent of australian cattledogs never came from a ankc parent many not ever descended from one in any generation

That is never going to happen. so do we all just stop trying evrytime something is difficult?? - seems a bit defeatist Alright, you go out and try to keep a wandering hunting dog on a particular protected parcel of land, when slow moving sheep are just over there, you take all the farmer's guns so that he can't shoot the dingoes when they don't notice that they've walked into unprotected land and kill his stock, you take all his dogs away so that there's never any chance of a dingo to dog mating and he can just bring the stock in without dogs. Exactly. This is the real world, national parks dont have dog proof fences, they dont even have kangaroo proof fences. I remember counting 200 kangaroos in among a friends cattle one morning. His property was beside what????????? National Park. Imagine the screaming if he then allowed his cattle to shift into the next neighbours for a feed now the National park kangaroo's had cleaned his place out of feed? we dont live in the ideal world.

Do not mistake me. That is definitely not what I believe is the right thing to do with a dingo kept as a pet. She was an exceptional girl. There could have been instead a very busy dingo, cleaning out every chook yard within travel distance. As well as every pet and wild bird and rabbit catchable or pen it could break into. The same happens though with just about every other breed of dog allowed to roam. Certainly NOT just Dingo's. My pet rabbit or her run wasn’t torn to pieces by the dingo next door. That slaughter was done by the German shepherd from over the road. Only recently one of my neighbors’ goats were torn apart and still left alive by a German Shepherd who’s owner emphatically denied it ever left his yard. He did not have much to say when it was shot some days later back inside the goats paddock when it returned for another go at them.

As for the original topic, people have kept Dingo's as pets ever since Australian settlement, with none of the related problems associated with the importation of the dog fighting breeds. So I do not understand why they should be descriminated against, there has always only been a small segment of the population attracted to keeping a dingo and even if what would seem completely unsuitable hands, eg my neighbour,(they never fenced her in, she could go when or where she pleased in a completely suburban environment, since they lived on the corner of a main road, she early displayed the quick learning by never being run over, she preferred to stay home, patrol her home yard and to a lesser degree the surrounding footpath, visited only the nearer neighbours, there was never a problem with their dingo.

Gee, thanks for taking the trouble. Yes it’s very hard. I for one was aghast when even the first pit bull was allowed into the country. The feral’s already had their status dogs. Adding these guys as well as the other's that have been named, to the gene pool was a disaster in the making and it has proven to be just that. There is no fix now, it’s never going to be just the dangerous ones targeted . I have no idea what solution could be found. As it is, the peta/rspca (rspca sent out letter's to all members warning that Peta intended infiltrating and taking over) faction intends the whole solution will be no canines of any breed let alone x bred’s. The war on pedigrees once won, it is being won, make no mistake about that. Just look at the falling numbers of registered breeders. Once they have been taken care of it will be every canine targeted next for elimination. Find me a vet who does not advocate desexing of all that enter their surgery? There is no encouragement for anyone to breed. Seems they don't twig, once there are no breeders they are out of a job within the lifespan of those left? As I understand it, there is now legislation either in place or being drafted (cant remember) that "Hoarding" is now a legal justification for removing someones animals. the defination being more than X number on the property. Doesnt matter how good their condition. How many have been told that anyone who breeds and does not keep any of their elder dogs are puppy farmers? Those who do keep the previous generation, will fall under 'hoarders'.

Regarding what you said in red, yes I know this is true, these types of dogs are a race apart from the ones belonging to responsible people. The parents and pups are selected for aggression; many for generations, these dogs are just about a subspecies of the breed they are descended from. That is why I don’t support BSL. Visually you cannot tell the difference. Temperamentally though, a world apart. When I was a child there were parts of the town I grew up in that you simply did not go there unless with a friend who was part of that world. Or the dogs would not be called off if they went for you. The attack on sight ones that could not be called off, usually lived out their lives on chains until wanted. I am stumped how you can feel dingo’s can be lumped into that group at all, they are nothing like those dogs whatsoever. The ones I have met have assimilated easily, only those who know dingo’s have recognised what they are. Joe public wouldn’t have a clue. ACD's display many of the same traits, that’s why the dingo was added to their genes. They are smart, intuitive, certainly not by nature savage, although ACD’s certainly will protect whatever they perceive as their owners property (even a soiled nappy, discarded by it's toddler) and their owner. Although there are still failures, I well remember a lady asking if she put her ACD in pup maybe that would make her more maternal towards her new baby. THAT is definatly NOT ACD temprement. She could not let her ACD into the same room as her new baby, she would immediately seek to attack the child. It was very hard to get her to understand, that dog was dangerous and not to be bred from, or ever allowed access to her child. (My own parents and anyone I knew would have put the dog down as not worth the risk, she would not consider that). By contrast when our grandchildren were born, both Rosie and Benni took one sniff at the new arrivals and any time our daughter in law took the babies out in the stroller there were two "guard" dogs stationed either side of her and the stroller, eyeing off any one else in the street. Just in case, as Benni and Rosie would have told you.

I agree with you it is the people who use dogs as an ego tool that need legislating about. Breeching Civil Liberties is a very hard accusation to get past. I think the politicians took the easier route. targeting the breeds of dog instead of the mindset of such people who teach their dogs to be weapons. any breed can be set to be a weapon of attack, but different breeds and types have cyclonic times of fashion. Some are petrifyingly efficient. I think i would rather be attacked by a toy poodle, chi or any other smrf than a pit bull, rottie, dobe or german shepherd which have tended to be the breeds of choice , although now the neo and logoto have been added to the mix, pig dogs in all their forms are popular as well. aust cattledogs id rather face too, id rather my ankle or leg gone for than torn to the ground and shredded, like the afore mentioned breeds, yes i was born to acd's in the yard. ,the highest bite i can recall from a very affonted dog was the backside of a vet who insisted he would not allow anyone to carry his bag to the car. He had just vaccinated the dogs. It was dad's turn to be affonted when the vet had the hide to send dad the bill for his new suit. holes in the coat and the trouser's apparently. Dads dogs were guard dogs in the true and real sense. no one was allowed to put anything in their vehicles except the staff. All the customers knew the rules, the staff sure did, the dogs knew the rules. the vet was a nit. they were the days before video camera to prevent theft. very effective. :) shoplifting just didnt happen well that was in the 50's though another world now isnt it.

So because Azaria (RIP) was killed by a dingo, an individual dingo, you are now condemning the whole dingo race as wild, untrustworthy creatures that should remain where they are? I fear you have had very little to do with a well raised pet dingoes. sorry missed that the first time - YES, YES, YES thats EXACTLY and ALL i am saying. someone finally gets it. OK don't get rude. since your reply in purple to what is said in red then how can what you said be interpreted as any but pro Breed Specific Legislation? getting all snarly doesnt change that. actually it wasnt me who decided you must be a troll. believe it or not others in the house were reading it too. made the suggestion and found the song for you. incidently that chap is a world famous singer. worth listening too anyway. far more children (and adults) have died from the attacks of known domestic breeds if the papers are to be believed. The excuse for the introduction of BSL in the first place. then you cite one and condem a race? Same mindset, same waste of innocent lives for any that are judged to 'look' like. might be worth the effort to remove a littlie of the froth n foam from your previous post just realised you said "proffesional BSL troll"? In the debates I and the family n friends there has always been the Pro side and the Con side. Pro BSL means 'FOR BSL' Pro means 'for' and con means 'against'

the reason many now chip the pups directly into the new owners name has nothing to do with "hiding" it is all to do with not having to issue double paperwork per pup and if the new owner does not pay the registration the councils may take from 5 to 7 years to notice and who has to tell them where that pup they bred that long ago now is? with no informtion bar the chip number to go on? I well remember the panic of one friend sent a list of some 14 dogs and trying to find 5 to 7 year old record books n the chips are not in numerical order. in my case i took 3 hours over the deadline to advise the dog with that number was dead. so copped a 168 fine for dog that had died 6 years before.no ifs buts or appeal either.... so keep your records where you can find them no matter how old. i have never put any but the owner ever since. be it a buyer or me if i kept it.