The Box Trick - Help Training A Newbie Clicker Trained Dog

[Tatelina]

I can't find any threads on doing the box trick!

You know...where you put a cardboard box and click and treat any random thing the dog does with/to it to encourage the dog to think?

Anyway I just saw a video where it sounded like the owner started clicker training with this method...which I must have understood wrong as at the very least you would have to charge the clicker.

But anyway...my questions are:

When is the best time to do the box trick? Right at the beginning of clicker training? ie. my dogs learnt what the clicker was about 3 weeks ago and atm we're working on touch (yeah I know not very fast progress). So would an attempt at the box trick utterly confuse my pooches?

Also it it done over several sessions? Or all in one go? (ie. say 40 click + treats in a go?)

What benefits are there for doing the box trick?

Have you tried/bothered/failed/succeeded in doing the box trick?

Edited May 25, 2009 by Tatelina

[Teebs]

I managed to teach kaos to stick her head in a bucket just sat there and as she got closer, clicked at the right times - she had already been taught to fetch the bucket for me, now she can stick her head into it... niece thinks its funny, and kaos loves doing it... strange animals

[leopuppy04]

I think you are talking about 101 things to do with a cardboard box?!

What the person probably meant in the video is that it is the first thing they attempted to teach AFTER charging the clicker . The reason being that it’s nice and easy and quick for the dogs to gain success and confidence and a good way for us as trainers to get our timing right and a better understanding of clicker training.

I would start with this trick right away – we don’t have any pre-conceived notions of what we want to teach (eg: we don’t need a perfect ‘jump into the box’ but we might wand a perfect dumbell retrieve)…

We also have no criteria – so we are able to go through our C&T’s really quick to get a nose nudge, jump in the box etc. It’s basically set up to get the dog confident at trying new things.

You could easily do 40 C&T’s in the space of 2 – 5mins… that’s how high the rate of reinforcement should be. Remember – you are not giving the dog ANY cues of a behaviour you want… so you need to communicate WELL what you want to keep the dogs enthusiasm up and their willingness to try

[Kavik]

Head in a bucket was one of the first things I shaped too

[Teebs]

Head in a bucket was one of the first things I shaped too

She has heaps of fun doing it, who am i to stop her?

[TerraNik]

I agree - do this any time! The benefits of it is that it teaches the dog some basic shaping and helps them learn how to learn! They think for themselves and work out what exactly you want and that experimenting with different things is rewarding. It's not only fun for the dog but also beneficial for you later on if you want to shape other things (with a goal in mind) because the dog will know how the process works.

[Tatelina]

I think you are talking about 101 things to do with a cardboard box?!

Remember – you are not giving the dog ANY cues of a behaviour you want… so you need to communicate WELL what you want to keep the dogs enthusiasm up and their willingness to try

Yes that's exactly what I meant!

Ok can you elaborate - How exactly am I suppoused to keep the dog enthusiastic about a box, without letting them know that it's the box that I want them to 'interact' with?

Just click and throw treat on the box and then when they do something to it get excited?

Thanks for the replies lovely people! Keep them coming!

[helen]

Here is a good link for you http://www.clickertraining.com/node/167

[Gamby]

Having fun with a box I call it Free Shaping and it would be my No. 1 trick I do with Gambit.

As soon as I put the box on the floor he starts trying all different things. I click and treat when he does something that I liked him doing. It doesn';t take him long to understand what it is I want him to do. I don't talk to him I just watch amazed at what he is trying to do to get the "Click." He does destroy the box eventually, but in the mean time he's had so much fun.

Free shaping is so intriging. Seeing the dog trying so hard to get the "Click" is so entertaining. The look on Gambit's face when he's trying is magical. Head down, head up with a look that is just so lovely.

Who else has had fun with a "Box"

[Tatelina]

Thanks for the link Helen!

Anyone else have any stories to share? Pros and cons of what has happened when they did this with their dogs or repercussions?

[Tassie]

Having fun with a box I call it Free Shaping and it would be my No. 1 trick I do with Gambit.

As soon as I put the box on the floor he starts trying all different things. I click and treat when he does something that I liked him doing. It doesn';t take him long to understand what it is I want him to do. I don't talk to him I just watch amazed at what he is trying to do to get the "Click." He does destroy the box eventually, but in the mean time he's had so much fun.

Free shaping is so intriging. Seeing the dog trying so hard to get the "Click" is so entertaining. The look on Gambit's face when he's trying is magical. Head down, head up with a look that is just so lovely.

Who else has had fun with a "Box"

No eventually about it with the box I was using with Rory last week, Gamby. (Just started some free shaping with him.) I'd left the box in the living room, and during his mad hour yesterday evening, when I was checking my email, I heard ripping souinds - next thing along comes a happy grinning BC pup with the remains of the box hanging out of his mouth (Reminds self to bring another suitable box home.)

[Gamby]

No eventually about it with the box I was using with Rory last week, Gamby. (Just started some free shaping with him.) I'd left the box in the living room, and during his mad hour yesterday evening, when I was checking my email, I heard ripping souinds - next thing along comes a happy grinning BC pup with the remains of the box hanging out of his mouth (Reminds self to bring another suitable box home.)

Hey Tassie, Isn't life wonderful with a dog?

[Tassie]

;)

Hey Tassie, Isn't life wonderful with a dog?

Sure is. I hadn't put the remains of the box away yet, so this morning he got it up on the bed and resumed the destruction. ;) Can't complain though, he's only destructive about paper and cardboard, for the most part, so I let that go.

[ozjen]

Having fun with a box I call it Free Shaping and it would be my No. 1 trick I do with Gambit.

As soon as I put the box on the floor he starts trying all different things. I click and treat when he does something that I liked him doing. It doesn';t take him long to understand what it is I want him to do. I don't talk to him I just watch amazed at what he is trying to do to get the "Click." He does destroy the box eventually, but in the mean time he's had so much fun.

Free shaping is so intriging. Seeing the dog trying so hard to get the "Click" is so entertaining. The look on Gambit's face when he's trying is magical. Head down, head up with a look that is just so lovely.

Who else has had fun with a "Box"

I was recently trying to explain free shaping to a lady while I was at a dog show, I didn't have a box so emptied Jenna's water bowl and put that down for her to use. We got a selection of options from her including balancing on top of it with all four feet (Waterbowl was upsidedown at this stage), The woman was very impressed at a dog thinking up options to get clicks from me and loved the looks Jenna gave me as she tried each thing " How's this one Mum", she was convinced Jenna was the smartest dog in the world.

[Lablover]

Been away from home over the last week, concentrating on retriever training, but due to friends having various training issues with 5 of their dogs, I have been trying to teach clicker training.

I have found the handlers timing, co-ordination and body movements generally poor. Thus creating confusion +++++.

A couple of dogs are quite unmotivated types for all positive methods - food, tug, toy. One is particularly nervy so known extremely quiet areas are vital.

Its been interesting.

We all laugh after small multiple training sessions, how any tool, can be good or harmful.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Lablover

[Tatelina]

I was recently trying to explain free shaping to a lady while I was at a dog show, I didn't have a box so emptied Jenna's water bowl and put that down for her to use. We got a selection of options from her including balancing on top of it with all four feet (Waterbowl was upsidedown at this stage), The woman was very impressed at a dog thinking up options to get clicks from me and loved the looks Jenna gave me as she tried each thing " How's this one Mum", she was convinced Jenna was the smartest dog in the world.

Well there you go! Just on the spot like that can figure it out!

I can't wait to do this with my girls..hopefully they figure it out in one session!

[Tatelina]

Ok...what am I doing wrong if I get to the point where my dog is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY focused on me...

Like if they stare at me sitting for over a minute with a tiny little tail wag waiting for instructions? Heh.

Even if I talk to them and click any head movement towards the box..they still don't get it.

So is it just a few clicks (if that's all I get) and then finish?

Edited May 24, 2009 by Tatelina

[Jigsaw]

The best thing to do when the dog loses interest in training is to stop. You can do a sort of time out where the dog doesn't have your attention by turning your back on him. It may only need to be a few seconds. When you turn back it's best counted as a new session. If you still don't get any co-operation you can do another little time out. If it happens a third time it's time to stop and reconsider what you're doing as whatever you're doing is not allowing the dog to "get it". When starting shaping you may only get a few clicks in - do make sure the dog understands the relationship between the clicker and reward though. The dog has to realise that he has the power to get a reward by offering a behaviour. Make sure too that your reward is a high enough motivator too for him to want to work.

[Kavik]

I actually didn't start with the box game it is a very frustrating thing to do when the dogs have not done any clicker work before. I started with a simple targetting behaviour - touch my hand with their nose.

The looking at you problem is common at the start of clicker training as they are used to you telling them what to do, not used to figuring it out themselves. It might take a little while for them to get it.

[Tatelina]

Thanks kavik and jigsaw.

We've 'charged' the clicker a few times, and we're working on 'touch' with a target stick so the box thing isn't the first.

Heh. Dori progressed today to putting both her front paws in the box. Egh. It is SO slow going. :cool: I thought my dogs were brighter than this.

Jedda still sits at my feet and waits with a tiny little tail wag. And if I start talking to her she'll offer the other few tricks that she knows (sit, drop, bark)...and that's it.

Frustrating!

The best thing to do when the dog loses interest in training is to stop.

Just to clarify...that's not when they're looking at me waiting is it?