westozmike Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Yes I think we will walk away. I am contract savy - so would have no issues bedding down an arrangement, but there's still just too many complications with it. Sandra777: No I think we've been properly steered clear of blues now - partly thanks to you on other posts (thanks) They are very cute though!! We would love a black female stafford that we know would be great with our young family (I'm sure most staffords would fit this). Would like to meet the breeder - but would consider importing from over east from someone very experinced and understanding of our needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 If your wanting a bitch only than be prepared to wait.Its a pitfall when you arent flexible . I would keep an open mind unless you havea reason for thinking a female will be better?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 If you're going to desex then depending upon the individual dog, gender may not necessarily be that important unless you have PARTICULAR reasons for wanting a bitch. Unless you have an interest in obtaining a quality bitch for showing and ultimately a foundation for your own breeding program then I definitely wouldn't be going for one with strings attached. There will be other puppies. If you have found a breeder that you particularly like, or whose dogs you particularly like, you may just have to put your name down on a list and wait until an unencumbered puppy comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 You would need to know the breeder personally for quite a while before entering into a breeders contract. I know many people this has worked for but the best arrangement is when you pay for the bitch and have the purchase price returned when she has the litter. Two litters is one too many in my opinion for this type of arrangement and most breeders I know who do this successfully only ever ask for one. Sometimes the owner then decides they would like their girl to have another litter and a new contract is negotiated but most just get them desexed after one litter. Some breeders are very generous and easy to deal with, others the exact opposite so you really need to know who you are dealing with. There are so many things that can and do go wrong so if you have any doubts at all, look for another puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I went into a similar verbal agreement many years ago - but I was sort of keen on becoming a breeder and I thought this was a bit of an intro into it. Thr breeder lived very close to me and I was going to keep my girl at home and the breeder was going to travel to my home or move in with me for a while. She was going to pay for the sire, vet fees etc and the pups would be hers. We had talked about me keeping a pup but I wasn't too sure. We had know each other for a few years bu weren't what you'd call friends. Unfortunately my girl had trouble with her seasons and the breeder and I agreed that desexing her was in her best interest. If I wasn't interested in learning more about breeding I wouldn't have been interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdogg Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) I would change the terms to the bitch having the pups at your place. All health checks, vet bills, special feeding and incidentals covered by the breeder - your pick of the litter and she can have the rest. Thats of course if you dont mind doing the whole process.. It may not be for you.. Thats just my thoughts.. Dogs are your best mate.. (well they are mine anyway) I wouldnt be letting them go anywhere if they didnt have to. There better off being at home in an environment they are familiar and comfortable with. Thats just my opinion though. *Edited - shocking grammer.. Still is.. but at least a little readable now Edited January 18, 2010 by bigdogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Don't do it is my advice. Having a bitch in season is pretty challenging for your average owner - I've been through it unintentionally as I rescue dogs and would not willingly go through it again. You just want a pet, not a breeding bitch or a showdog. Find another breeder! You want to own your pet outright and are going to pay someone for that privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 We would love a black female stafford that we know would be great with our young family (I'm sure most staffords would fit this).Would like to meet the breeder - but would consider importing from over east from someone very experinced and understanding of our needs. If you head over to the Stafford thread you will see that Sandra777 has a black female. Not sure if she freights though, but she is definitely a breeder that I personally would buy from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westozmike Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 This forum is sensational - so many well meaning and knowledgeable people.... Thanks Clyde - I am in contact with Sandra now.... fingers crossed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Hopefully it all works out for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Good luck with getting a pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Mum Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) Wow!!!! now I know I must be abnormal I have been given 2 bitches under "breeders terms" & have not had any probs at all!!! But it has been with the same person each time. He has placed no pressure on me at all to title the bitches, "just have fun & love her"!!! was always the agreement. I paid for the upkeep of the girls ....food, vacc etc & and at a time that was agreeable to both of has we would have a mating!! He has always been generous to me............occassionally mags from OS & some $$ every now & them, flea treatment etc. I was only only at the vets today getting bloods done, as she is is season!! and we are organising the mating. This has always worked for me & my family..........but you really need to "suss out the breeder".........Mine sounds like a one in a million Good Luck Woo...... that sounded weird when I read it back..................we did not have a mating!!!!!! Edited January 18, 2010 by Poodle Mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Depends on the parties concerned, I think. I was offered a small breed of dog on breeders terms. A small expensive breed of dog, which I would have to pay the market price for. At the time, I didn't know a huge amount about breeding purebred dogs, but I did know enough to ask some pertinent questions. Health testing? Breeder doesn't believe in it. What if the bitch isn't good enough to breed from? Breeder apparently never had a bitch that wasn't good enough. I passed up that particular offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Good luck in finding a nice quality puppy. One that you own & that will be a desexed pet. I find it strange that you enquired for a pet & were offered this & would be very wary. Why would the breeder want to do this ? If the bitch was such top quality that they wanted it bred from they would either keep it themselves, or if unable to, place the bitch on lease or co ownership with another breeder. I would think. Not put it in a pet home with no breeding experience. It would be awful & stressful all round for you & your family. Nice photo of your new baby on here when you get her/him please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticpaw Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I find it strange that you enquired for a pet & were offered this & would be very wary.Why would the breeder want to do this ?If the bitch was such top quality that they wanted it bred from they would either keep it themselves, or if unable to, place the bitch on lease or co ownership with another breeder. I would think. Not put it in a pet home with no breeding experience.It would be awful & stressful all round for you & your family. They don't have to outlay anything, vacinations, food, vet bills in general and then if they need to get puppies there is a bitch ready. Pet owners believe that their dog is special and the breeder wants to use it in the future, they feel included in a breeding program. I maybe wrong, about this particular breeder, but I would walk away. The pup that is right for you is worth the wait, hope it comes soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 If it is the breeder i think it is all bitches go on breeders terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I would change the terms to the bitch having the pups at your place. All health checks, vet bills, special feeding and incidentals covered by the breeder - your pick of the litter and she can have the rest. Thats of course if you dont mind doing the whole process.. It may not be for you.. Thats just my thoughts.. Dogs are your best mate.. (well they are mine anyway) I wouldnt be letting them go anywhere if they didnt have to. There better off being at home in an environment they are familiar and comfortable with. Thats just my opinion though. *Edited - shocking grammer.. Still is.. but at least a little readable now I have successfully bred several bitches that stayed with their owners. They owned the bitch but she was leased back to me on paper. They outlayed all expenses and kept all money from the sale of the puppies. I organised the mating, was there for the whelping, ran back and forth guiding them through the process, organised buyers and puppy notes and assessed the puppies. What did I get out of the arrangement? The continuation of my line carrying my prefix and an option to buy my pick puppy if I wanted to, for what it actually cost them to raise it. All done without having to physically raise the puppies at my home. Only once have I actually taken a puppy from the litter, but some other litters have resulted in dogs carrying my prefix ending up as successful show dogs and sires. What did the owners get out of the arrangement. The experience and joy of breeding a litter with full support. Some then opted to desex their girls and others have gone on to become breeders and exhibitors with their own prefixes. In some cases I have actually put my prefix in dual names to breed the litter so that their name will always be listed as co-breeder of that litter. These situations can and do work wonderfully if everone approaches them for the right reason and not to try to make a profit at the expense of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 If someone had an interest in breeding and learning from experienced breeders, a contract as such could be a good way to start, but if breeding is not your interest, I wouldn't enter into a contract like that personally and as someone else has mentioned, buy a puppy with no strings attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticpaw Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I have successfully bred several bitches that stayed with their owners. They owned the bitch but she was leased back to me on paper. They outlayed all expenses and kept all money from the sale of the puppies. I organised the mating, was there for the whelping, ran back and forth guiding them through the process, organised buyers and puppy notes and assessed the puppies. What did I get out of the arrangement? The continuation of my line carrying my prefix and an option to buy my pick puppy if I wanted to, for what it actually cost them to raise it. All done without having to physically raise the puppies at my home. Only once have I actually taken a puppy from the litter, but some other litters have resulted in dogs carrying my prefix ending up as successful show dogs and sires. What did the owners get out of the arrangement. The experience and joy of breeding a litter with full support. Some then opted to desex their girls and others have gone on to become breeders and exhibitors with their own prefixes. In some cases I have actually put my prefix in dual names to breed the litter so that their name will always be listed as co-breeder of that litter. These situations can and do work wonderfully if everone approaches them for the right reason and not to try to make a profit at the expense of someone else. It's always good to read things from a different perspective. Should always keep an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I have no objections to breeding terms providing it is fair and BOTH parties benefit. Unfortunately, when one is a pet home only, the deal does tend to lean very heavily towards favouring the breeder and can often lead to nothing but inconvenience for the pet owner. As I said in my reply earlier, for the average pet owner I would simply NOT recommend going into breeding terms. Particularly with a breed like Staffords where pet puppies are dime a dozen. If somebody is an aspiring breeder and exhibitor, breeding terms can be a very good way of acquiring animals/bloodlines that may not normally be available to them under the usual circumstances so can be very beneficial in this respect and also if the owner/breeder of the bitch is an experienced and knowledgeable person it can be a great learning curve. But the reality is that in almost every situation, a pet owner really has no need to be involved in strings attached situations and should look elsewhere for a puppy even if that means waiting for a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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