dunnwarren Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 My 13 year old border collie took a fit Sunday night, lasted about one minute then she was fine. I took her to the vet Monday morning who checked her out and took bloods. These came back as normal although her cholestorol was up a bit. He put her on half a tablet of Phenomav twice a day. These seem to have helped (she hasn't had any more fits) but she seems very wonky in the back legs and getting worse. I will contact the vet again first thing in the morning but I was just wondering if anyone here has any suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Sorry Dunnwarren - seizure activity can be the result of many different things, consequently, and without further testing, I think it would be difficult to guess at the reason for your girl's troubles. Seizures are horrible to watch - you are rendered helpless and the seizure can appear quite violent. I would be inclined to seek specialist opinion. Is it possible that the meds are making her 'wonky' on her back legs? Perhaps dosage needs to be altered? I hope you find a 'medium' to your girl's health dilemma that will see things equalise soon. Others here might have something more helpful to add than I. Edited January 19, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Sorry to hear this Dunwarren. Hope she recovers soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunnwarren Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Well I did think of taking her to Melbourne for a MRI but I have to be realistic, one thing I just have not got the money for that at the moment and two, if they do find something wrong with her brain there is no way I would put her through an operation at her age. It is scary watching but thankfully I have had to cope with my young grandson who has epilepsy so I knew what to do. I will certainly talk to my vet first thing tomorrow. And please don't criticize me for not being able to spend money that I dont have as that's the last thing I need at the moment. Guess more then anything I wanted to know if anyone elses' dog has been on the same medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrm88 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Dunnwarren dont feel bad about the money aspect of it all, you are getting the care required for your girl and im sure you will ensure she has a fantastic life for as long as you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Dunnwarren - it's ok. It was only a suggestion and certainly I agree that in some cases, especially when our dogs are older, we should wonder if some things are just 'academic' exercises - costing money and of no end benefit to the dog. Been there and done that. No criticism from me. I guess from my own experience, sometimes it can work out cheaper in the long run if specialist advice is sought earlier, rather than paying out for numerous visits to your GP Vet only to potentially find out there are no answers forthcoming. Having said that, there are some GP Vets around who are worth their weight in gold and do just as well as specialists as far as diagnosis is concerned. My avatar girl (bless her cotton socks) experienced Grand Mal seizures. She was on medication to control them. She had other complications and as a result I did give her her wings a few years ago. I cannot recall the name of the meds, but they did dope her down a fair bit. That's why I'm thinking your girl's "wonkiness" in her hind legs might be a matter of dosage adjustment. Only your Vet is going to be able to advise you properly. My heart is with you. Edited January 19, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunnwarren Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thanks both of you, I really needed that. It's just so hard watching her and knowing I can only do so much. My vet is great and Ive been going to him for longer then I want to remember and I have faith in him to do the right thing. He did say the meds might make her sluggish so that might be what's wrong, anyway I will find out tomorrow. Guess I just needed someone to listen to my tale of woe. Thanks for listening to my ravings lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 You're not "raving" and I know what it is like. It's scary. It's heart-breaking. It's awful feeling helpless. Relax. Breath. And just spend some quiet time with her. No need to speak. She'll be knowing that you are doing your all. Let us know what the Vet suggests when you speak to him tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Have a feel down her spine for any ouchy bits. She may have hurt a disk during her fit. Just a thought. I have an older border too, so hugs to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottychick Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Sorry to hear this. I don't know much about fitting. Except my old dally once fitted for a while after an operation - she actually nearly died after I brought her home (she became non-responsive, gums went blue/black) and I rushed her to another emergency vet who said she'd been over-anaesthetised by the original vet and might have suffered slight brain damage as a result. Anyway, over the next few days she started suddenly suffering these sort of twitching fits which sometimes (but not always) caused her to fall over. I had her looked at again by yet another vet who suggested some natural "brain foods" and after a few months her fitting went away. Never came back either. I have no idea if the "brain foods" did the trick or whether she would've improved anyway. But I'm glad it got sorted and I'm sure the natural supplements didn't do any harm anyway Not sure that helps at all but it's all I have to share about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I hope your girl is feeling better soon! My old girl Meg had her first seizure at 3 and died of (basically) old age at 14. She was on Phenobarb which worked well but needs to be monitered as too little or too much can cause breakthrough seizures. Full on seizures are easily observed but often, after a large seizure, a dog can have smaller less observable seizure activity that can cause disturbed physical behaviour such as more frequent blinking, head droop or other problems with lack of co-ordination. I too understand about the cost of investigations and more importantly, the stress these investigations may cause your lovely old girl. Your vet probably has a good idea as to what is going on and as you said, if its just to find answers then you really do have to weigh up the benefit to your dog. Good luck with her. It can be a bit of a trial getting the meds right so you may see her having a few more seizures before she settles. And please remember, even though you know your dog so well, during and shortly after a large seizure, your dog will be in an altered state of consciousness and may react aggressively to you if you attempt to pat or cuddle her during this time. Best to avoid getting too close but continue to talk to her calmly so she becomes aware of you and feels less frightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattima Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Our old boy had a series of fits. He was put on Phenobarb not sure the drug stopped the fits but he never had any after that. After a heap of tests we never worked out what caused it. As has already been said it can be very distressing to witness. Don't worry about not spending the money on investigation. As Erny mentions it can sometimes just be academic. When our old boy Zephyr was about 14 he developed breathing problems, an emergency vet wanted to do all kinds of invasive investigations. I had to really push her to tell me how knowing the exact cause would change his treatment. Basically it wouldn't change anything as he was too old to operate on, I think she just wanted to know. Fingers crossed that everything goes OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 The only Borders I know of that have had had seizures in old age have had them in their last couple of months. Not sure of the exact diagnosis but just basically wearing out. At 13 I would just be keeping her comfortable for as long you can with medication. The average lifespan for the breed is about 14 but can vary from 12 to 16 depending on the lines, so at 13 she is an old lady and things will start to go wrong. IMO spending huge amounts of money with specialists is pointless if the dog is already nearing it's expected lifespan. As mentioned above it is purely an academic exercise and one that makes the vets rich. Once my Borders turn 13 my aim is to make whatever time they have left as comfotable as possible not to try to prolong the inevitable. I feel cheated if I lose them before that, but 13-15 is a good innings. Having an ill geriatric dog is emotionally very draining, so just try to remember all the good times you have had together and when the time comes give her wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Im so sorry to hear that your pup is not well. My Border Collie started seizing at 12 months of age. Epilepsy. We had him on Phenomav for 4 years until he had a massive seizure at the age of 5 which caused him so much damage he had to be PTS. The Phenomav might be causing the wonkiness. I know my boy used to get dopey about an hour after he had his meds. Just do your best with her, its all you can do. I wish you the very best with your doggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 How is she this morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunnwarren Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Just spoken to my vet on his day off, he said not to give her medication this morning and only half a dose tonight. Could be the medication causing it or if it's a brain thing it might be progressing faster then we hoped. She is still very groggy and the back legs still aren't working real well but hopefully by tonight she will improve. Keeping my fingers crossed just incase. I really want to thank you all for your kind thoughts and ideas. Have to ring my vet again tomorrow to let him know how she is then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Im so sorry to hear that your pup is not well. My Border Collie started seizing at 12 months of age. Epilepsy. We had him on Phenomav for 4 years until he had a massive seizure at the age of 5 which caused him so much damage he had to be PTS. The Phenomav might be causing the wonkiness. I know my boy used to get dopey about an hour after he had his meds. Just do your best with her, its all you can do. I wish you the very best with your doggy. Epilepsy in Border Collies is pretty rare but if it does occur it tends to show up in young dogs (1-4yrs). Some overseas lines have a problem with seizures in puppies aged about 4-7 months, but we have never known of it to occur in BCs from Australia. The seizures in the really old dogs seem to be from some other age related cause. Edited January 19, 2010 by dancinbcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunnwarren Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 That's what my vet said, it's not epilepsy it's either trauma,(which she hasnt had) or a medical problem, even cancer will cause seizures. Now it's just a matter of waiting to see if she improves without any medication this morning, it's just soooo hard watching her struggling. I've had border collies on and off for years and never come across epilepsy, I did lose one with bladder cancer at age 5 but she never took fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 That's what my vet said, it's not epilepsy it's either trauma,(which she hasnt had) or a medical problem, even cancer will cause seizures. Now it's just a matter of waiting to see if she improves without any medication this morning, it's just soooo hard watching her struggling. I've had border collies on and off for years and never come across epilepsy, I did lose one with bladder cancer at age 5 but she never took fits. In my 27 years with the breed I have personally only heard of 4 cases of epilespy in Australia, so it is really rare here. Overseas is a different story and a some breeders elsewhere have told me that they import Aust lines to get away from the problem. I do however, know of two old dogs down from two different lines I have used, that have sadly had seizures in their last months or weeks of old age. So hard when there is so little that you can do except wait and hope that it is not her time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttaburra Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Sorry to hear about your dog not being well Dunwarren. Whatever the cause, I would think medication would be the mainstay of any treatment. It might need to be tweaked a few times to get the best results. Your vet will guide you. Sending supportive thoughts for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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