Pack Management Suggestions Please

[westielover]

How do people manage a multi dog house hold? Specifically 4 dogs or more.

Do you leave them all running together when you are not home?

Do you crate some and leave some running together?

How do you manage multiple dogs, if you work full time?

Edited April 29, 2010 by westielover

[SkySoaringMagpie]

We have six and work full time.

We do not let the younger ones run together when we are not around for a combination of reasons. One is that two of them are resource guarders. Another reason which probably isn't as pertinent to terriers is that even in fun play they can injure themselves seriously if they don't have good internal brakes and brains (check the sighthound thread for a recent discussion on this). I am not a fan of all day crating so our younger ones are in purpose built dog runs during the day where they can either snooze on their bed or get up and walk/pee/play with toys. They can also see each other, they just can't hoon around. They get their morning meal in kongs or buster cubes which gives them something to do while we are at work plus we exercise them before we leave so they spend a lot of time snoozing.

The two eldest ones are fully mature and have brains and no organic temperament issues - they can be left alone together without any worry. So the above is our full management plan if that makes sense.

Our routine for not at home is easier than our at home routine to be honest.

Edited: I'm not sure what our neighbours think on bustercube mornings when we leave and there is the echoey sound of 4 buster cubes regularly hitting the sides of the runs

Edited April 29, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Sandra777]

Do you leave them all running together when you are not home?

They are all separated whenever we leave the property.

Do you crate some and leave some running together?

No. All separated - however if the weather is OK they are in kennels & runs (walk in kennels) so they can snooze in the sun, watch the roos go past and play with their toys (puppies)

How do you manage multiple dogs, if you work full time?

You mean "quality time'' and training? Lots of juggling and scrupulous adherence to a fair routine. Too bad if you like one dog a bit more than another, they all need one on one and time alone with their people.

[Guest Ams]

Do you leave them all running together when you are not home?

I run a changing pack since I have four dogs of my own and then have rescues (I currently have 10 rescues here)

I never leave them all running together when I am not home. Pack dynamics are watched closely and those left in various areas depend on who is getting on with whom. and that can change from day to day, week to week.

Do you crate some and leave some running together?

I don't crate dogs if I am going to work but leave dogs in separate areas. Some are happy to remain inside the house, for others I have small and large run areas set up.

Puppies get left in my very large laundry area as it is large enough for them to play but secure so they don't get hurt, warm in winter and cool in summer.

I do currently have one dog crated all the time. She has a broken leg and is under vet care. She is only allowed out to go to the toilet and for quiet snuggle time.

How do you manage multiple dogs, if you work full time?

My own dogs get special time when I first get home, then I spend time in my 'outdoor room' with the ring ins. It is chaotic and definitely not for most people but they all get trained (not to trial standard but they do get training), they all get cuddles and mine get to sleep in my room with me at night.

[tlc]

My lot are only on their own for around 5 hours at a time and only for 4 days of the week. In this time they are all inside two in the front half of the house and two in the back half of the house. not for any particular reason but since they were all young I have never left them all together for long periods of time.

However if I am ducking up the street to an appointment for an hour or so I will leave them all together either outside or inside. Thinking about it now I really don't know why I separate them as they all sleep the whole time when I'm gone (I video taped them one day to see what they get up to while I'm gone!)

When they are inside on thier own they just have the run of there areas, (bedroom & Kitchen/dining) both big areas, no crating, I even leave the ceiling fan on for them in summer and the heater in winter and Im sure I'm not the only one who does this. ;)

They know the drill too, they see me getting ready for work and shortly after I put my work clothes on they go to their areas and wait for thier treat before I walk out the door. When I'm not working and I head for the door they are all hot on my heals ;)

[Kavik]

I only have 3 so probably don't count

Mine all run together. When Kaos was a pup I had him in a separate run while I wasn't home to supervise. I have 4 potential runs/separate areas, but at the moment all run together in the two big ones combined with the door open.

For walks/training etc I rotate. One walk in the morning with the pram, one or two in the evening (depending on when OH gets home). I do some training on walks, on weekends and when my son is having a nap and Kaos gets to agility training once or twice a week and competes a few weekends a month (depending on when they are on).

[ruthless]

Our are all separated when we're not home. In runs if it's during the day. In crates if it's at night. They're all together when we're home, but Trixie isn't left out in the garden with anyone other than Ivan. Chopper and Angel play really rough but they don't fight. Life was much easier with just three. In fact it was the best when we just had two!

[JulesP]

I have 4 border collies and they are all left together if I am out. I've never had an incident with them, they don't fight. I've had 1 fight in 19 years when one was playing and grabbed her mates ear when he had an ear infection, and that was all growling. One of the dogs is also not great with other dogs but is good with her pack. I do have a big yard.

Currently have 2 desexed bitches, 1 desexed male and a female puppy.

I would use a run rather than a crate if I had problems.

[4Kelpies]

When I was away at work for up to 10 hours a day, I always left my 4 dogs in a run together. I would give each of them a bone before I left and there were never any problems. Now I have 5 dogs, I have to pen one (entire bitch) separately (she came to me at 5 years of age and had always had a separate pen and never learned to share her space) but the other 4 ( 2 desexed bitches, 1 desexed dog and 1 entire dog) can be left together. I can walk the entire bitch with the two that are her own pups but not with the others. When I go away all dogs share a trailer happily - two in the same berth. So much depends on the natures of the dogs themselves. Some will get on with no problems, others will always have to be kept separated.

[kelpiekaye]

When I was away at work for up to 10 hours a day, I always left my 4 dogs in a run together. I would give each of them a bone before I left and there were never any problems. Now I have 5 dogs, I have to pen one (entire bitch) separately (she came to me at 5 years of age and had always had a separate pen and never learned to share her space) but the other 4 ( 2 desexed bitches, 1 desexed dog and 1 entire dog) can be left together. I can walk the entire bitch with the two that are her own pups but not with the others. When I go away all dogs share a trailer happily - two in the same berth. So much depends on the natures of the dogs themselves. Some will get on with no problems, others will always have to be kept separated.

Great looking dogs

[westielover]

Thanks for the responses everyone - much appreciated.

Kavik - you do count

I'm not having issues with my pack as such. Although I do currently have a 12 mth old kelpie at home and he's a boisterous player with my slightly timid dog who is a springer cross, Spencer.

Flynn, the kelpie has been with us since mid Feb and all the dogs, including my 2 westies get along fine.

When I am at home and the play between Flynn & Spence gets too boisterous - I intervene. Flynn is very respectful of the 2 westies and funnily enough adjusts his play style with the littlies.

Spencer does give warning and sometimes Flynn takes them on board and sometimes he doesn't - that's when I intervene.

I had left the 4 dogs running together since Feb - until there was an incident on eater Sunday where I came home to find Flynn with a gash above his eye, a puncture wound below his eye, a puncture wound on each front foot. My 'fun police' westie also has one puncture would on his neck below the ear.

Flynn was taken to the emergency vet for stitches.

Since the incident, Flynn has not run free with the other dogs while no one is home. Problem is, I work full time and am away from home for up to 10 hrs a day (mon-fri). I been lucky since the incident in that my father is off work at the moment and he has been coming to my house and staying from 10am to 3pm - letting Flynn out of his extra large crate and supervising the dogs running together. From 8.30am - 10am & 3pm - 6pm, Flynn is in his crate. He crate trained so no drama's there. My father will be returning to work soon - so I am trying to think of what to do.

Note - there has been no tension between the dogs since the incident and they all still get on fine.

I don't have a huge yard and I am not sure I have the room for a sheltered run due to how the yard is set up. At the moment I don't have any outdoor shelter - so the dogs actually have run of the house & yard 24x7 (all toilet trained etc).

Flynn officially is a foster dog who is currently advertised on petrescue but the tempetation to keep him is huge.

In the 5 years of fostering - the dogs have always run together and this incident is the first (and hopefully the last!!!).

However, I guess I am a little nervous about what to do going forward while Flynn is still with me. I don't want to crate him all day and I don't particularly want to keep him in a run all day either. I would prefer the dogs to be together and have a little fun during the day - but I don;t want anyone to get hurt!!!

Flynn is a great dog with a fantastic temperament - he is polite in terms of playing with toys - he won't take toys from other dogs - he waits until the toys are left by the other dogs and then he will retreive it - same goes for fetching - if he and Spencer are running for a ball and Spencer gets to it first then Flynn let's Spencer have the ball. Flynn is non-confrontational. I guess Flynn's only 'problem' is his boisterous play and his lack of taking notice of any signals Spencer may give him when the play gets rough. I couldn't bear to have Flynn go through another incident like this where he would need stitches. I was really upset that it happened at all!!

Perhaps the reality is that I just cannot have a 4th dog at this time????

What would others do?

[westielover]

Picture of Flynn

Edited April 30, 2010 by westielover

[Diva]

Hard problem westielover, I'd probably keep them part when home alone until I thought Flynn was 'listening' to Spencer well. Especially as he is under your care as a foster but not really your dog, if you know what I mean. That would make me even less inclined to take risks. But on the other hand he probably learns a lot running with the others so it's a shame.

Mine run together when I'm not home, always have, except for the very young or very old who will be separated if I think they are likely to get accidently hurt. Accidental damage (of the kind needing a chiropractor) is the only issue I have had - as ssm mentioned it's a known risk with young, too playful, sighthounds.

[westielover]

Hard problem westielover, I'd probably keep them part when home alone until I thought Flynn was 'listening' to Spencer well. Especially as he is under your care as a foster but not really your dog, if you know what I mean. That would make me even less inclined to take risks. But on the other hand he probably learns a lot running with the others so it's a shame.

Mine run together when I'm not home, always have, except for the very young or very old who will be separated if I think they are likely to get accidently hurt. Accidental damage (of the kind needing a chiropractor) is the only issue I have had - as ssm mentioned it's a known risk with young, too playful, sighthounds.

I should clarify that I don;t actually foster for any rescue groups - I tend to rescue kelpies myself from various pounds from time to time and foster them myself until a new home is found. I have fostered for a group in the past but then I went out on my own. So all expenses are incurred and paid for by me and not a rescue group as such.

Do people consider it a really,really bad thing that this incident resulted in stitches being required?

I wasn't there when in happened but as I said before - and I have been bringing rescue dogs through the house for the past 5 years - 4 of which Spencer has been with me (Spencer is a rescue dog who I decided not to rehome).

[Diva]

I should clarify that I don;t actually foster for any rescue groups - I tend to rescue kelpies myself from various pounds from time to time and foster them myself until a new home is found. I have fostered for a group in the past but then I went out on my own. So all expenses are incurred and paid for by me and not a rescue group as such.

Do people consider it a really,really bad thing that this incident resulted in stitches being required?

Sorry, I thought you fostered for a group. My mistake.

From your description I don't think it sounds like a terrible incident, even though it would have been distressing for you. But it's impossible really for me to say that with any credibility without seeing the dynamics and what difference, if any, it has made to Flynn's manners.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Diva

[MonElite]

I guess I do count as well then, I have 3 and a 4rth one visiting often.

My 3 all run together, never a problem.

2 girls one boy all entire

visitor is a desexed boy, best friend with Furia. Accepted by the other two, but if Furia and Obi play raugh Rex sometimes tends to get into it as well and then they all gang up on Obi.

Mind you this only happens when they are really excited, such as first let out off lead on a walk etc. At home Furia and Obi play non stop the other two just look at them rolling thier eyes thinking - ahhh kids, freaks and idiots.

Re play times with me - Rex just gets pets, he is old and preffers to stay home and get cuddles, is taken for walks with the others, sometimes short ones by himself.

Girls - taken to training mostly both, sometimes Furia only.

They all get run off lead daily, together.

Edited April 30, 2010 by MonElite

[Kavik]

I've only had tooth marks on muzzles, nothing requiring veterinary attention. My guys have been pretty good, even though Zoe is dog aggro and can be possessive, she is OK with the dogs she lives with.

So you think the problem is Flynn and Spencer? Could you rotate who is crated so Flynn gets some days in the yard? Would he be OK with the Westies?

[Cosmolo]

Is there any way you can set up a camera to see what happens when you're not there? I know its difficult but i had a client do it recently and discover just how bad their dogs issue really was.

I think the amount of damage is relevant to the bite inhibition- or lack of- of the dog that did the biting- not necesarily related to the seriousness of the issue. No easy answer- i'd like to see how they interact when you're not there before i would consider taking the risk. Otherwise, some degree of separation would be preferred.

I have 5 dogs and for the most part they run together- 2 have to be separated if we leave them for long periods though- nothing to do with the dynamic, one has HD and ED, the other awful allergies so when left in the yard for long periods i come home to one cripple (from playing too much) and one hivey ( from rollong around on the grass. We separated the puppy to start with but now he often stays with them. We are fortunate though because we don't work 9-5 away from the home. If i did, i wouldn't have the number of dogs i do.

[westielover]

Sorry, I thought you fostered for a group. My mistake.

No need to apologise Diva - I just thought I better clarify a little that's all

So you think the problem is Flynn and Spencer? Could you rotate who is crated so Flynn gets some days in the yard? Would he be OK with the Westies?

I would say it's a combination Kavik. Spencer gives signals but Flynn doesn't always take notice. Spencer, being a little timid possibly reacts instead of backing off when he 'can't cope'. Flynn tends to back off from trouble. Judging by the injuries which Flynn sustained - Spencer definately had a go and poor Flynn mus have tried to 'get away'. I don;t know the exact cause - could have been play which turned into a fight. It definately was not over food because I am very diligent about no food being left out - bones are never buried etc.

Flynn is fine with the westies - he adjust his play style with them and if they give Flynn 'back off' signals - then Flynn backs off!

Beside that one incident - Flynn & Spencer play and chase a ball at the park together - jump into the car together - lie down next to each etc etc.

ps. If the weather is ok tonight - I might bring Flynn to agility training around 8.30pm for a visit

[cowanbree]

Do people consider it a really,really bad thing that this incident resulted in stitches being required?

Not really. Over the years I have had a few instances that required stitches and quite a number of puncture wounds that I have had to treat. When you run numbers the odd personality clash is inevitable. I always separate mine by age and personality and even then do have the odd issue. I would never run big with small or old with young etc tec. Personally I would be seperating them, woudl be handy to have one somethign set up for new fosters anyhow as there is no way I would leave unknown dogs running with mine unsupervised