Puppy Frustration :(

[TsarsMum]

Wow some of these posts from not only the op but from others are disgusting. This person came on here and windged yes she sounded very angery. But why not try to be a little more nutural then a mob attacking her. She needs help and doing what u all have make new people stop posting. I'm a little shocked at these posts. Some have been great for me even with my young pup. And I know somedays I get fustrated at him but I walk away and come back when I'm calm. The op shoulda like she has had a extremly hard time of late. I would have probly acted the same way if I got these posts at me. People do not listern when they are being attacked.

You all need to step away take a break and come back.

REALLY. the op is lucky she wasnt reported for a post that was offensive.

I said both did I not.

[Staffygirl88]

Yes, we're all so pathetic, nasty, cold-hearted and ignorant that we took the time to put forward our opinions and/or advice when YOU came here asking for it.

And this is not the first time.

When you're making your judgements of those responding Staffygirl, consider for a moment that you don't appear to have been reported for that charming post that it is very clear breach of forum rules. My guess is that most of us are feeling some empathy for your situation and concern for the welfare of your pup. Rather than see you booted off, I'd say most would like you to stay and get some help.

No one has sworn at you or abused you. You cannot say the same.

If you cannot control your temper sufficiently to post in accordance with the rules, log off, take a break and go pat your pup.

She's the one most of us are trying to help.

I have been abused thanks. Telling me to return my pup because I can't care for her is imo abusive. I don't care if I'm reported, there's no point asking for help when most of what I get isn't helpful at all, it's just people being nasty. I can take constructive criticism and use it, when people are just abusing me or being nasty it's infruriating.

[jazawayaya]

Wow some of these posts from not only the op but from others are disgusting. This person came on here and windged yes she sounded very angery. But why not try to be a little more nutural then a mob attacking her. She needs help and doing what u all have make new people stop posting. I'm a little shocked at these posts. Some have been great for me even with my young pup. And I know somedays I get fustrated at him but I walk away and come back when I'm calm. The op shoulda like she has had a extremly hard time of late. I would have probly acted the same way if I got these posts at me. People do not listern when they are being attacked.

You all need to step away take a break and come back.

People are and have been flamed for way less then some of the stuff that has come out of this persons mouth. Sorry I am upset but what does a person expect coming onto a website of dog LOVERS and saying some of this stuff? Of course people think the worse and react accordingly.

[Staffygirl88]

Wow some of these posts from not only the op but from others are disgusting. This person came on here and windged yes she sounded very angery. But why not try to be a little more nutural then a mob attacking her. She needs help and doing what u all have make new people stop posting. I'm a little shocked at these posts. Some have been great for me even with my young pup. And I know somedays I get fustrated at him but I walk away and come back when I'm calm. The op shoulda like she has had a extremly hard time of late. I would have probly acted the same way if I got these posts at me. People do not listern when they are being attacked.

You all need to step away take a break and come back.

REALLY. the op is lucky she wasnt reported for a post that was offensive.

So much for being 'another one for my ignore list' ;)

[spottychick]

Actually almost everyone tried to understand this person and give her useful advice which she rubbished for the most part.

And the suggestion that she return the puppy - tho not one that I made - is as useful as any advice that's been given here and NOT abusive.

Sometimes that's the best solution. It doesn't mean the person is bad or evil or anything. It's just sometimes taking on a puppy was not the right thing to do OR the puppy is not the right breed or whatever. In that case, the most sensible thing to do is return him to the breeder and get a refund.

[Staffygirl88]

Wow some of these posts from not only the op but from others are disgusting. This person came on here and windged yes she sounded very angery. But why not try to be a little more nutural then a mob attacking her. She needs help and doing what u all have make new people stop posting. I'm a little shocked at these posts. Some have been great for me even with my young pup. And I know somedays I get fustrated at him but I walk away and come back when I'm calm. The op shoulda like she has had a extremly hard time of late. I would have probly acted the same way if I got these posts at me. People do not listern when they are being attacked.

You all need to step away take a break and come back.

People are and have been flamed for way less then some of the stuff that has come out of this persons mouth. Sorry I am upset but what does a person expect coming onto a website of dog LOVERS and saying some of this stuff? Of course people think the worse and react accordingly.

Saying some of what!? I haven't said anything bad about the dog itself! So how have I offended any of you? Yes some of the things she has done recently have been frustrating but that does not mean I am taking it out on her!

[Aziah]

;)

[poodlefan]

I have been abused thanks. Telling me to return my pup because I can't care for her is imo abusive. I don't care if I'm reported, there's no point asking for help when most of what I get isn't helpful at all, it's just people being nasty. I can take constructive criticism and use it, when people are just abusing me or being nasty it's infruriating.

No, its not abuse. Calling people pathetic nasty ignorant low lifes that need to grow up and telling them to f#ck off is abuse.

People telling you to return you pup is advice you don't want to hear. You've concluded that people think you're a bad person when all some think is that this is not a good time for you to be trying to manage a sick Dad and a baby pup.

Ignore that if you wish but responding by labelling people who are actively trying to help you in such insulting terms is self destructive behaviour. For one they'll stop trying (and you clearly need help) and for another if they tire of it you'll get reported and booted off the forum.

Edited September 21, 2010 by poodlefan

[Red Fox]

Okay, not flaming but some advice:

She howls and cries whenever I open her food bag and it is extremely hard to try and calm her down because I get so frustrated with her jumping at me because she can smell the food. It was explained to the breeder of this pup that I have a young son and would like a pup with a naturally calm and placid temperament. ;)

Normal. And not a bad thing. A food driven dog is an easy dog to train No puppy is going to have a naturally calm and placid temp, they are excitable, bouncy and stupid. Start with TOT (pinned at the top of this forum or the training forum, I can't remember) It WILL fix your problem immediately as the puppy is tied out and can't jump - they learn very quickly

Don't take food from the pup, it's not natural for a pack leader to take food away. Don't allow your son to either. You can easily teach the pup an out or give command outside of meal times.

This pup was also meant to be toilet trained. She does her business on my porch! And all over the concrete walkways. I do take her to where I want her to go but she BOLTS over to where SHE wants to go I left her at home in her crate for not even 4 hours yesterday, when I got home all I could smell was poo. She had done her business in her crate and had run all through it!!! She had it all over her! My house reeked and my dog and her bed was covered in crap! She had done her business before I left the house, poos and wees so I can't see why she couldn't hold on! She has done this three nights this week and I've had enough of it.

Normal. NO 8 week puppy is going to be completely toilet trained, it's not possible, it takes months. The breeder can start it but you need to continue and be consitant.

Take the pup out to toilet every HOUR to start with. ALWAYS on leash, so she can't bolt, take her to where you want her to go and PRAISE when she does.

Toileting in the crate after 4 hours - also normal. Baby pups can't hold that long, and yep, it set toilet training back too so more work for you.

I understand that you need to keep her safe if you must go out. Perhaps (if you can't keep her outside) invest in a pen instead so that she can toilet away from her bed if she must.

she doesn't even look me in the eye when I'm trying to get her to do something

Normal. Only a very dominant, confident puppy is going to stare you in the eyes, it's not a natural behaviour. You will need to gain confidence in the puppy before you will get eye contact.

Should I just leave her outside until she's fully trained and can respond to commands?

No. You need to be there to teach her or she'll never learn anything. But it's okay to put here out in the yard/pen/crate when you are not able to supervise and need a break.

Also is it normal for a dog from a breeder to be full of worms?

No, not normal. But not rare. Worms happen. Yes disappointing, but easy to treat. you have wormed her now and will keep it up. Puppy will be fine and it's unlikely to affect her long term health.

In short yes, I think you are expecting way too much from a baby puppy.

Have a look at this vid: http://www.youtube.com/user/leerburg#p/u/138/rNQuqY1oXpE

You may find it useful.

[Staffygirl88]

I have been abused thanks. Telling me to return my pup because I can't care for her is imo abusive. I don't care if I'm reported, there's no point asking for help when most of what I get isn't helpful at all, it's just people being nasty. I can take constructive criticism and use it, when people are just abusing me or being nasty it's infruriating.

No, its not abuse. Calling people pathetic nasty ignorant low lifes that need to grow up and telling them to f#ck off is abuse.

People telling you to return you pup is advice you don't want to hear. You've concluded that people think you're a bad person when all some think is that this is not a good time for you to be trying to manage a sick Dad and a baby pup.

Ignore that if you wish but responding by labelling people who are actively trying to help you in such insulting terms is self destructive behaviour. For one they'll stop trying (and you clearly need help) and for another if they tire of it you'll get reported and booted off the forum.

When someone says 'return the pup' to me that's giving up before I've even had a decent go with her. Being told that I have no idea about dogs or whatever was said is insulting. I came here for advice and got crap like that, so I'm sorry if I've offended you but I've been offended myself.

[koalathebear]

staffygirl88: this is past the point of being any help to you right now. You've already received some very useful advice about meal times. secretkei has also just done a great post for you.

Don't take this the wrong way but what might be best for you right now is to hop off DOL, make a cup of tea/coffee and just have a quiet moment. Bolstered by a nice hot beverage, some chocolate, once you have a clear head - it's possible to tackle even the trickiest of problems :D At the end of the day, you are the one who has to make the decisions about what to do and hopefully with a clear head, you can make the best decision possible.

All the best!!

Edited September 21, 2010 by koalathebear

[Staffygirl88]

Okay, not flaming but some advice:

She howls and cries whenever I open her food bag and it is extremely hard to try and calm her down because I get so frustrated with her jumping at me because she can smell the food. It was explained to the breeder of this pup that I have a young son and would like a pup with a naturally calm and placid temperament. :D

Normal. And not a bad thing. A food driven dog is an easy dog to train ;) No puppy is going to have a naturally calm and placid temp, they are excitable, bouncy and stupid. Start with TOT (pinned at the top of this forum or the training forum, I can't remember) It WILL fix your problem immediately as the puppy is tied out and can't jump - they learn very quickly

Don't take food from the pup, it's not natural for a pack leader to take food away. Don't allow your son to either. You can easily teach the pup an out or give command outside of meal times.

This pup was also meant to be toilet trained. She does her business on my porch! And all over the concrete walkways. I do take her to where I want her to go but she BOLTS over to where SHE wants to go I left her at home in her crate for not even 4 hours yesterday, when I got home all I could smell was poo. She had done her business in her crate and had run all through it!!! She had it all over her! My house reeked and my dog and her bed was covered in crap! She had done her business before I left the house, poos and wees so I can't see why she couldn't hold on! She has done this three nights this week and I've had enough of it.

Normal. NO 8 week puppy is going to be completely toilet trained, it's not possible, it takes months. The breeder can start it but you need to continue and be consitant.

Take the pup out to toilet every HOUR to start with. ALWAYS on leash, so she can't bolt, take her to where you want her to go and PRAISE when she does.

Toileting in the crate after 4 hours - also normal. Baby pups can't hold that long, and yep, it set toilet training back too so more work for you.

I understand that you need to keep her safe if you must go out. Perhaps (if you can't keep her outside) invest in a pen instead so that she can toilet away from her bed if she must.

she doesn't even look me in the eye when I'm trying to get her to do something

Normal. Only a very dominant, confident puppy is going to stare you in the eyes, it's not a natural behaviour. You will need to gain confidence in the puppy before you will get eye contact.

Should I just leave her outside until she's fully trained and can respond to commands?

No. You need to be there to teach her or she'll never learn anything. But it's okay to put here out in the yard/pen/crate when you are not able to supervise and need a break.

Also is it normal for a dog from a breeder to be full of worms?

No, not normal. But not rare. Worms happen. Yes disappointing, but easy to treat. you have wormed her now and will keep it up. Puppy will be fine and it's unlikely to affect her long term health.

In short yes, I think you are expecting way too much from a baby puppy.

Have a look at this vid: http://www.youtube.com/user/leerburg#p/u/138/rNQuqY1oXpE

You may find it useful.

Thanks I shouldn't have expected any more from her than I would any other pup just because she cost a lot more. Breeders should not advertise that their pups are wormed and or toilet trained when they're not.

[poodlefan]

When someone says 'return the pup' to me that's giving up before I've even had a decent go with her. Being told that I have no idea about dogs or whatever was said is insulting. I came here for advice and got crap like that, so I'm sorry if I've offended you but I've been offended myself.

Being offended happens here all the time. Ignore those that offend - retaliation will get you a one way trip out the door or a holiday at the least.

There really are situations where people realise they've taken on way too much and that its in both theirs and the pups interests that it be returned.

Most of your early posts in this thread have expressed total frustration and (lets be frank) very unrealistic expectations of your puppy. You also said if you had your time again, you'd not have got her now. What did you think folk were to conclude? You say you're venting but we have to take these things as you paint them. Were those views not to change then return WOULD be the way to go.

Sift through the advice in this thread and use the gems. That's what the rest of us do.

[Red Fox]

Thanks :D I shouldn't have expected any more from her than I would any other pup just because she cost a lot more. Breeders should not advertise that their pups are wormed and or toilet trained when they're not.

Cost = nothing when it comes to pups. You can pay $10,000 for a puppy, but at the end of the day, she's still a puppy and nothing will change that

I should add the the video link that I posted only shows half of the footage, but it does give you a link to the rest at the end. It shows very well how lower ranking pups (ie not the pack leader) will react when food is taken from them. Leerburg do NOT recommend taking food away, placing your hand in the bowl and so forth for teaching pack leadership. There are other ways to do it. There may be some more info on this in other vids, the Michael Ellis ones are particular useful.

As for sending the pup back to the breeder? People here will recommend that not to offend you but so that you know that it is a viable option should you decide that it is all to much for you given your current situation.

[megan_]

I am of the camp that you do teach your pup to be able to put your hand in there bowl and take food put it back etc. so if i ever catch my dog with something they are eating and i dont want them too i can take it.

i would not do this with an older dog. but i do with my pup and will continue too.

i never put my hand in my dogs food nor do i take it away from her but i can assure you that if she has anything in her mouth that i want she drops it immediately.

she will also refuse food until i give her an ok.

imo if a dog is hungry it makes them anxious if the food is removed and i bekieve it is cruel.

my dog does not get fed until she has looked at me and i give a release word. in this way she understands i control the food and she controls when she gets it, ie the quicker she is calm the sooner she eats.

yip - I trained "give" as a separate exercise.

Koalabear - a dog might let someone take their food away from them 100 times, and then, when they hit the age where they try to assert themselves - suddenly attack out of nowhere. If you take food away from a dog all you are teaching them is "when you/child comes along, I might lose my meal" - this can be enough provocation to attack. Just because a dog has accepted a behviour 100 times, doesn't meant htey are going to accept it on the 101st. Doesn't matter if mum is 1m away, the attack happens in milliseconds.

I do, however, add treats to my dogs bowls when they are finishing up (they rarely eat out of bowls) or help them get the last morsels of food out of their treat balls (I say "I'll help you" and then approach). They know that when I approach, good things happen. They still get used to someone being around if they have their food, but the risk of them resource gaurding is MUCH less significant.

staffygirl - I am sorry that all of this has happened at a bad time. I remember being so overwhelmed by my (very well behaved!) pup that at one stage I just wanted to drop him off at the RSPCA and drive off! Now, I couldn't ever imagine doing that. It is hard when they are being naughty and you just want 5 mins to yourself. Good luck! Ignore the "get a stuffed toy" crowd and pick out the posts that help you the most.

The one thing I will say is that just because something has worked for you in the past, doesn't mean it is the best thing for this dog. Try to assess each piece of advice objecvtively and go from there.

[Staffygirl88]

When someone says 'return the pup' to me that's giving up before I've even had a decent go with her. Being told that I have no idea about dogs or whatever was said is insulting. I came here for advice and got crap like that, so I'm sorry if I've offended you but I've been offended myself.

Being offended happens here all the time. Ignore those that offend - retaliation will get you a one way trip out the door or a holiday at the least.

There really are situations where people realise they've taken on way too much and that its in both theirs and the pups interests that it be returned.

Most of your early posts in this thread have expressed total frustration and (lets be frank) very unrealistic expectations of your puppy. You also said if you had your time again, you'd not have got her now. What did you think folk were to conclude? You say you're venting but we have to take these things as you paint them. Were those views not to change then return WOULD be the way to go.

Sift through the advice in this thread and use the gems. That's what the rest of us do.

Yes my earlier posts did express total frustration. But when I went through some of the advice I was given, things didn't look so bad :D But then when people start going off at me I got my back up as most people do.

And she's still outside, but now playing with my son (well my son is running and she's chasing him) lol she doesn't jump on him very often at all now so atleast she's getting something from our training

[persephone]

well my son is running and she's chasing him)

:D

*whispers*

probably not a good game to play .. as she will rapidly grow , and still want to play chase and bounce Pups chasing kids and getting excited when they see kids running can often end in tears .

You might enjoy reading this little ebook -it's free

LINK

Oh.. and puppy photos are always appreciated

[poodlefan]

And she's still outside, but now playing with my son (well my son is running and she's chasing him) lol she doesn't jump on him very often at all now so atleast she's getting something from our training :D

God I hate raining on this parade but I'd discourage this game too. (I sound so negative)

She's going to be a big powerful dog. She needs to learn that chasing kids is not OK. If she does it to the wrong child she could bowl them over AND her behaviour can be misinterpreted.

You need to introduce some other games to this friendship. Will she case a toy.

[minxy]

Staffygirl: You will receive a lot of advice on this forum. Not all of it will work, not all of it you will like. But you can read through it all and decide which advice you want to take on board. I recommend just ignoring any comments you don't agree with. We all have our ways of doing things, so it's up to you to decide what will work best for you.

As for rehoming the pup, I will agree that people are only suggesting it as an option if all else fails. It doesn't mean that you can't handle a pup, or aren't a good owner. It just means that perhaps right now isn't the best time for you if you already have a lot on your plate.

I think you can do it. It will take time and patience, and it will definitely be frustrating at times! As others have said, a new pup is just like a new baby. They require a lot of attention and persistence. But before you know it, your little girl will be doing just fine.

Just remember to have a few quiet moments and relax so that you don't get too stressed over everything :D

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

God I hate raining on this parade but I'd discourage this game too. (I sound so negative)

She's going to be a big powerful dog. She needs to learn that chasing kids is not OK. If she does it to the wrong child she could bowl them over AND her behaviour can be misinterpreted.

You need to introduce some other games to this friendship. Will she case a toy.

PF this will end in tears and i agree with you. raining on a parade is what happens when people do not understand why dogs and puppies do what they do.

wait until the child squeals.....the OP might find out it has a high prey drive as well... :D