SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Just then a puppy buyer enquiry asking about my puppies for sale. They are not listed on DOL as being for sale, they are only on my website. Yet they missed the huge writing saying they are all spoken for. People don't look nor care, they just want a bloody puppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 trouble is they don't talk enough raz. Yes I know, Jaxx. And when you spend years putting them on to great breeders they end up buying from a mongrel puppy farmer anyway. It's a losing bloody battle but I'll still plod along hoping it gets in to their skull rather than the latest doggy fad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 there is a lot to be desired in the puppy buying public, no doubt about that but it seems to me that we are making it a bit more difficult than it has to for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 i want every puppy buyer to buy from good reputable breeders but i also know that in order to sort the wheat from the chaff is almost impossible for the average puppy buyer unfortunately ANKC wont get an ad campaign going. Breeders have been begging them for years. It's up to us to direct Joe Blow towards good breeders. Some of them will turn around and 'save' a puppy from a pet shop window but some of them will turn to a good breeder if you get in their ear enough. What about the MDBA then? If they could get up a big campaign to try and educate the public, perhaps then there wouldn't be a need for a separate registry as people would know how to sort the wheat from the chaff from the ANKC breeders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 there is a lot to be desired in the puppy buying public, no doubt about that but it seems to me that we are making it a bit more difficult than it has to for them. I disagree. I think the mongrel brigade are just making it easier. Example - someone I know bought a designer mongrel. Desexed at 8 weeks. All health tests (whatever they were but the puppy farmer was pushing that bit). Clean as a whistle and had a bow in the hair (big deal but people seem to like that crap) and had a health guarantee. 3 thousand dollars for a non shedding mongrel that sheds all over the house They love it, they love the breeder so by the by really, but you guys need to get out their and promote your breed cos if you dont, some mongrel puppy farmer will do it and make people feel all warm and mushy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 there is a lot to be desired in the puppy buying public, no doubt about that but it seems to me that we are making it a bit more difficult than it has to for them. I disagree. I think the mongrel brigade are just making it easier. Example - someone I know bought a designer mongrel. Desexed at 8 weeks. All health tests (whatever they were but the puppy farmer was pushing that bit). Clean as a whistle and had a bow in the hair (big deal but people seem to like that crap) and had a health guarantee. 3 thousand dollars for a non shedding mongrel that sheds all over the house They love it, they love the breeder so by the by really, but you guys need to get out their and promote your breed cos if you dont, some mongrel puppy farmer will do it and make people feel all warm and mushy yes they are. i am talking about puppy buyers who want pure bred puppies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 i am talking about puppy buyers who want pure bred puppies As I said before Advertise where people buy puppies from. List your puppies, promote your puppies - Sell the better product! Oodles have done so well because they advertise everywhere - where people buy puppies! If every breed club advertised on Petlink/Tradingpost about the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, it would turn around. They need to be consistent - Push the better product! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 i am talking about puppy buyers who want pure bred puppies As I said before Advertise where people buy puppies from. List your puppies, promote your puppies - Sell the better product! Oodles have done so well because they advertise everywhere - where people buy puppies! If every breed club advertised on Petlink/Tradingpost about the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, it would turn around. They need to be consistent - Push the better product! trouble is sway that there is not the supply to meet the demand. how many times have i heard breeders say they breed for themselves? now i am not saying this is wrong but it doesn't meet the needs of the pet buying public. no use advertising if the puppies aren't there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 trouble is sway that there is not the supply to meet the demand. how many times have i heard breeders say they breed for themselves? now i am not saying this is wrong but it doesn't meet the needs of the pet buying public.no use advertising if the puppies aren't there You inform them why they have to wait, what the benefits are of waiting, in the meantime they can research more, get to know a breederm build a relationship, join the club etc. ''All good things come to those who wait, may those who are impatient get bitten on the ass!'' Yes im joking about people getting bitten, but people need to realise puppies do not sit on shelves and some things are worth waiting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 That's right we had no intention what ever of getting anywhere near a registry and this thread was about how people could find a reputable breeder not the registry.The code of conduct which has been under the microscope is about members not pedigrees. Being able to offer the ability to breeders to better profile a pedigree is not some big sin. No one has expected that any of them will leave the ANKC or do anything different via registrations than they have always done. If someone wants to use the service we offer to do a better job of breeding healthier puppies and provide that data to other breeders and puppy buyers where is the harm in this? If we want to say you cant register your puppies with us unless you do certain mandatory tests which the ANKC dont have as mandatory - how does this hurt anyone ? If I want to DNA my parent dogs and enter that , if I want to test my parents and enter that and if I want to be able to access that sort of info from other breeders over generations how does this cause a problem? If I want to give my puppy buyers an extra piece of paper to let them know the parents had to be profiled and tested and what the results are of them and their ancestors why is this something I have to defend? What is it exactly that people are so against us having a register of our members dogs? So if this registry is just about health, why the shows, change breed standards etc? We have no mandatory health testing in my breed, I have been pushing for it via the Vic Club. We tried to get a National Body again so we could take it to the ANKC, the some of the other clubs would not agree. I will still test for my sake and my puppy buyers sake regardless. If you check my site you will see I am one of only a handful in my breed who hip and elbow score, and yet I go further by doing ECG and Thyroid - I think there is 2-3 who do this, including myself - My results are public. Unless the ANKC brings in mandatory health testing it will do people no good. As only those who want to be open and honest will be, the others will keep it to themselves like they do now. An example, on my results site which gets over 5000 hits a week world wide there is a Hip and Elbow score page. Breeders/owners can submit there results for all to see OR submit the results as Anonymous ( to try and encourage people to submit results) I care more about the breed average score then the dog who the results belong to - Sure if I plan to use a dog/buy a puppy etc I want to know, but if it's just dog XXXX it does not concern me. The breed average is what concerns me. In 2 years we have 24 dogs listed, 80% are pet owners. 2yr old page. The site has been widely promoted by various methods and people, yet people still don't want to test nor advise others of there results. As only those who want to be open and honest will be, the others will keep it to themselves like they do now. ETA The words - change breed standards etc? Changing breed standards ? Changing the breed's criteria for being able to register puppies isnt quite the same as changing the breed standards. We will not be judging dogs on their breed standard. We are not having shows the way shows have been traditionally and when we have shows/events it will be for the same reason the ANKC have their traditional shows to test or exhibit the dogs against others of their kind but it wont be by having them handled by a judge and running around a ring. The current show system provides titles for conformation champion dogs so why would we want to knock ourselves out and do nothing more than replicate that when all we have to do is add the titles to the certificates to know the dog is a champion? We will be adding Schutzhund titles and we have no intention of ever doing Schutzhund event. We will be adding herding titles and obedience titles and there isnt any need for us to conduct them because they are already happening. In your case with the Danes you are asking for exactly what we are doing - introducing mandatory testing before the litter can be registered and having the information available so it can be used when choosing a dog to mate with yours. Carrying that through to all future pedigrees where that dog is represented. The things you have said regarding wanting some tests made mandatory, and making the results available is why the registry was introduced, because we agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 trouble is sway that there is not the supply to meet the demand. how many times have i heard breeders say they breed for themselves? now i am not saying this is wrong but it doesn't meet the needs of the pet buying public.no use advertising if the puppies aren't there You inform them why they have to wait, what the benefits are of waiting, in the meantime they can research more, get to know a breederm build a relationship, join the club etc. ''All good things come to those who wait, may those who are impatient get bitten on the ass!'' Yes im joking about people getting bitten, but people need to realise puppies do not sit on shelves and some things are worth waiting for. they do get bitten unfortunately. i agree with you, we need to inform about waiting times but some breeders also need to not treat puppy buyers with disdain (not all do this of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) stormie i have used dogz as a reference where breeders advertise but again puppy buyers have to sort the wheat from the chaff. But that is the problem JB. As others have pointed out you just about need to have a week off work to research this full time. And even then so many people lie and deliberately mislead. Separating wheat from chaff easier said than done. Edited January 10, 2011 by Annie99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 there is a lot to be desired in the puppy buying public, no doubt about that but it seems to me that we are making it a bit more difficult than it has to for them. True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Monah.I agree too about one registry. any registry is going to have practices that not every one agrees with, and members that not everyone agrees with I think if a body is going to represent breeders (or anyone) they should make sure (consequences) the member abides by the regulations of the body. I know this does not happen and this reduces the respect and face of other breeders. I presumed you meant the ANKC? I see members getting holidays, or being banned forever, for being naughty. And I'm always pleased to see, when some shocking puppy farmer is exposed that they were evicted from the ANKC some months or years ago, so someone complained, and the ANKC took action. Of course, a lot leave, because once they go to the dark side, they don't want to be in the ANKC. But I do wonder why Mrs Mekyersik is still a member - and then I wonder if perhaps I have been given the wrong info on her - or is she too smart for them? The regs need to be tightened for bulk breeders, and for export. I don't think anyone of us likes exports, and I cannot see why the rules aren't changed to prevent bulk breeders exporting puppies to u know where. You bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 i am talking about puppy buyers who want pure bred puppies As I said before Advertise where people buy puppies from. List your puppies, promote your puppies - Sell the better product! Oodles have done so well because they advertise everywhere - where people buy puppies! If every breed club advertised on Petlink/Tradingpost about the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, it would turn around. They need to be consistent - Push the better product! Love the way puppies are referred to as PRODUCTS. Hmmmmm now what was I saying a while back about treating them as commodities....... Puppies are sentient beings, not handbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Many of them are amazed when you mention Breed Clubs because they just don't know these exist. Yes I was the same. What's a breed club??? Then when you ring them them they just flog their own puppies from a recent litter anyway. There are two Gordon Setter breed clubs in Australia, one in Victoria and one in NSW. Both clubs have websites and those who have a breeder membership can advertise their litters on the websites, but only if both the sire and dam have been x-rayed and scored for hip dysplasia and the relevant paperwork has been sighted by the club. Neither club will accept a litter notification or recommend a litter if the breeder hasn't met these requirements. We also highly recommend that breeders x-ray and score elbows and I would imagine that this will also become mandatory in the future. Their are very few (if any) breeders of Gordons in Australia who don't x-ray their breeding stock and the vast majority also score elbows and it is my opinion that both clubs and breeders do their utmost to promote healthy dogs and responsible ownership. Not all breed clubs are run by self serving people who bicker among themselves and are solely interested in promoting their own dogs and their own litters, some clubs do work together for the good of the breed and encourage all their members to put health and temperament first. Regarding the MDBA I am not a member and never will be, like others I cannot see the point of another registry in a country as small as Australia, it will never be recognised by the FCI, the KC or the AKC and all it will do is cause more division in the dog world when what we should all be doing is getting behind the our current controlling body and lobbying for change. Personally I cannot see that the membership requirements of the MDBA will guarantee that every member will be squeaky clean and totally beyond reproach, let's face it anyone can write some spiel that will be acceptable to the board of directors and as for references from puppy buyers, well if some unscupulous person really wants the MDBA seal of approval all they've got to do if give the contact numbers of a couple of friends and tell them what to say. Unless the MDBA is prepared to go out and personally interview every prospective member, inspect their premises and check their paperwork on a regular basis they will be subject to the same problems that beset the ANKC, there are bad apples in all walks of life and they infiltrate all organisations even those with a stringent code of ethics. I can already see changes in Dogs Victoria and I think things will continue to improve, if members are unhappy with the way things are there is nothing stopping them from standing for the management commitee or any of the other sub-committees and pushing for change from within the organisation. We certainly don't need another body operating a different registry, altering breed standards and promoting themselves as better than everyone else just because their members say they will adhere to a code of ethics and won't sell to pet shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 i want every puppy buyer to buy from good reputable breeders but i also know that in order to sort the wheat from the chaff is almost impossible for the average puppy buyer unfortunately ANKC wont get an ad campaign going. Breeders have been begging them for years. It's up to us to direct Joe Blow towards good breeders. Some of them will turn around and 'save' a puppy from a pet shop window but some of them will turn to a good breeder if you get in their ear enough. What about the MDBA then? If they could get up a big campaign to try and educate the public, perhaps then there wouldn't be a need for a separate registry as people would know how to sort the wheat from the chaff from the ANKC breeders? In the 'how to promote purebred dogs' thread we are throwing around ideas for this type of stuff. How to get purebreds out there in a positive light and to engage the public beyond the normal dog show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Love the way puppies are referred to as PRODUCTS. Hmmmmm now what was I saying a while back about treating them as commodities.......Puppies are sentient beings, not handbags. Annie99, if you knew anything about me you would know my dogs are my world. I am talking about advertising, in advertising things are referred to as 'products' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateshep Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I have a quick question for Steve about the MDBA.Is the MDBA going to be working with/accepting breeders of unregistered pure-breds or working dogs, or only if they are planning to seek approval as a recognised breed by ANKC ? Do you mean not registered at all or not registered with the ANKC ? Both. Eg Kelpies( recognised breed) bred as working dogs but that are not registered with ANKC and unrecognised breeds ( and neither circumstances want to be ANKC registered- just left as they are). With some breeds there will be two registries - one working one show - similar to how we have done for Border Collies see below. With breeds who are not recognised by the ANKC but who have their own registry - maybe. For GSD all of their titles and jobs will be entered as well as health issues on the registry. Working Registry ; Working Bloodlines. Dog must be registered with, or the offspring of dogs registered with ISDS, ABCA, CBCA, AWBC or MDBA Working Registry parents. General Registry; Includes Show and Work bloodlines or any combination. Dogs must be registered with Acceptable KCs, MDBA general registry or MDBA working registry ISDS, ABCA, CBCA, AWBC or any combination of the accepted working and KC registries. Dogs who qualify may be dual registered in MDBA Working registry and MDBA General Registry Dogs or their offspring can move from Working Registry into general Registry Dogs or their offspring cannot move from General Registry into working registry Thankyou Steve for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks for taking the time to post that. It was very interesting but highlights the problem, that for people not in the dog breeding world it is very confusing trying to separate the good from the bad, and I think this very confusion is what the people doing the wrong thing encourage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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