Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 So for greedy unethical people, they can pay for as many memberships as they like, tell the right people all the stuff they want to hear, and still sell whatever pups they want to wherever they want. It makes not one spot of difference. Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. If people are able to cook up illegal drugs every day and make a profit at the expense of human safety and life and get away with it, you can be damn sure that puppy breeders can do it. Of course there are drug rings, paedophile rings, puppy farmers etc. Greedy people will do what they can to get rich. But I can assure you people who peddle drugs and cook them often end up in the clink, and not a place I ever want to be. well some activist you will be :D I never said I was an activist that would do the things in that link I posted. I said without them, many PF's would never have been exposed. It's not that complicated. Really! but it is easy to be an armchair activist sprouting rubbish to this forum but not having the balls to do what your heroes do. its cowardice by any other name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I wonder if Annie knows about the PETA agenda to stop the keeping of dogs and cats? Damn. I am breaking my ignore rule again (thanks for all the PM's everyone) There are some of PETA'S agenda that I 100% disagree with. I certainly don't subscribe to PETA's extreme view that all pets are slaves, and should be set free. So it's ok to agree with some of an organisations philosophies and not others, but still support them overall? sure it is....... just that annie cant see that ethical breeders can be members of the ankc but disagree with the selling to pet shops talk about double standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 That's because they aren't PASSIONATE DOG LOVERS :D Oh noes, there goes another pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 i know sway you and other breeders don't like it one bit and for some of the puppy buying public it;s a confusion that could be done without.i wonder how the ankc could restrict trade to only PIAA pet shops and still be within the law? Many have looked into this with no luck, There has been a few threads on DOL in regards to this. The ANKC can't... Annie99 - I am still really interested in your views on the TPA and breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have a quick question for Steve about the MDBA.Is the MDBA going to be working with/accepting breeders of unregistered pure-breds or working dogs, or only if they are planning to seek approval as a recognised breed by ANKC ? Do you mean not registered at all or not registered with the ANKC ? Both. Eg Kelpies( recognised breed) bred as working dogs but that are not registered with ANKC and unrecognised breeds ( and neither circumstances want to be ANKC registered- just left as they are). With some breeds there will be two registries - one working one show - similar to how we have done for Border Collies see below. With breeds who are not recognised by the ANKC but who have their own registry - maybe. For GSD all of their titles and jobs will be entered as well as health issues on the registry. Working Registry ; Working Bloodlines. Dog must be registered with, or the offspring of dogs registered with ISDS, ABCA, CBCA, AWBC or MDBA Working Registry parents. General Registry; Includes Show and Work bloodlines or any combination. Dogs must be registered with Acceptable KCs, MDBA general registry or MDBA working registry ISDS, ABCA, CBCA, AWBC or any combination of the accepted working and KC registries. Dogs who qualify may be dual registered in MDBA Working registry and MDBA General Registry Dogs or their offspring can move from Working Registry into general Registry Dogs or their offspring cannot move from General Registry into working registry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm not talking about those who already have a life membership, they have been handed out for different reasons.I'm saying if there is to be an elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) it should be done by the existing governing body. And awarded as a high honor based on morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment ANKC and It's members decide, not just pay a fee and you get it. disagree, that's what life memberships are handed out for. And im saying that (if I had it my way) the elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) would run a similar way, by the existing governing body and not a private business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 i know sway you and other breeders don't like it one bit and for some of the puppy buying public it;s a confusion that could be done without.i wonder how the ankc could restrict trade to only PIAA pet shops and still be within the law? Many have looked into this with no luck, There has been a few threads on DOL in regards to this. The ANKC can't... Annie99 - I am still really interested in your views on the TPA and breeders. You're right on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Annie99 I find you very hard to follow, almost nutty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The wheel has already been invented, why would you try and invent it again? Because the current one doesn't seem to be working very well, does it? Or do you think it is? I'm not sure how paying a private company so breeders can self-describe as 'master dog breeders' is a new wheel? After all, it's not an industry or accredited organisation. I thought it was about joining an organisation that is making the moves and noises to work to fix the things that so many have been expressing their concerns about for such a long time. Puppy farmers. Unethical breeders. Providing a clearer margin between them and the ethical breeders. Making it easier for the general public to see the trees even though the forest is in the way. Making it so that these same people will come seek puppies from those ethical breeders and not seek them from pet shops. An organisation which will work towards stopping crap laws coming in (laws that affect you very people .... laws that your other body of which you are a member of don't seem to be doing anything much about and earlier laws that your own other body of which you are a member (esp Victoria) were not only permitted to slip through but were not overtly announced and made clear to its members and when questioned (yes, I repeat myself) as to how it can let such a law/s slip through delivered an answer "sometimes you have to be nice to Government". So this latter "body" is the body that you like/prefer. You (and I'm speaking broadly here) now have an opportunity to do something about all of these things with an organisation that is publicly stating and showing its willingness to try to fix the wrongs that have been occurring over years and years (and this by an already WELL ESTABLISHED - not yelling - body, not one who has been up and coming and in the making) and now you're all knocking it on the head??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Annie99 I find you very hard to follow, almost nutty. Well as long as it is only almost.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm not talking about those who already have a life membership, they have been handed out for different reasons.I'm saying if there is to be an elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) it should be done by the existing governing body. And awarded as a high honor based on morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment ANKC and It's members decide, not just pay a fee and you get it. disagree, that's what life memberships are handed out for. And im saying that (if I had it my way) the elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) would run a similar way, by the existing governing body and not a private business. Yes that would be great except they still have the same restrictions and when some who have life memberships actually export puppies to pet shops it sort of puts a damper on it all anyway. The accredited breeder programs are up and running now that's managed by the governing body do you think that's preferrable ? Tick the boxes and pay the fee and bobs your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The accredited breeder programs are up and running now that's managed by the governing body do you think that's preferrable ? Tick the boxes and pay the fee and bobs your uncle. Nope, still won't sort the wheat from the chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 Stangely enough puppy farms are still about, possibly in greater numbers than ever. So effective behaviour? I think not. And you might need to consider that not a huge percentage of people engaged in criminal behaviour get locked up... Especially the clever ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Yes that would be great except they still have the same restrictions and when some who have life memberships actually export puppies to pet shops it sort of puts a damper on it all anyway.The accredited breeder programs are up and running now that's managed by the governing body do you think that's preferrable ? Tick the boxes and pay the fee and bobs your uncle. QLD is the only one who has that program at present as far as im aware, and no I don't agree with the tick the boxes and pay you get it. As I have previously said.. I'm saying if there is to be an elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) it should be done by the existing governing body.And awarded as a high honor based on morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment ANKC and It's members decide, not just pay a fee and you get it. No fee, an award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 Stangely enough puppy farms are still about, possibly in greater numbers than ever. So effective behaviour? I think not. And you might need to consider that not a huge percentage of people engaged in criminal behaviour get locked up... Especially the clever ones. Yes. It is effective behaviour to increase awareness. Most criminals are not that clever, mostly from lower socio-economic groups and also poorly educated. Not too many clever ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm saying if there is to be an elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) it should be done by the existing governing body. And awarded as a high honor based on morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment ANKC and It's members decide, not just pay a fee and you get it. This is what I don't understand. Here comes along an organisation that seeks to fill the voids that exists within another organisation (who is not dumb to what's going on; the grumblings; etc). Breeders have a choice. Refuse to join the second organisation and work with what they've got and what they've had for ....... how long? Ummmm ..... 60 years now? ... ok, that's a choice, although people have tried to communicate; have voiced their concerns; have voiced their opinions; etc. etc. And it is how far a long to being better? They can, if they wish, join another newer organisation. One which expresses its acknowledgement of problems that need addressing; that have needed addressing for a long long time but which (not for the want of nudging/trying) aren't being addressed satisfactorily and without detriment to the very breeders that are the 'other' organisation's members (this is as I understand things). It will cost a fee. Certainly. I'd even expect that. But if that organisation was no threat to what I did as a breeder (if I was one) and indeed if that organisation could provide me with some benefit, be that by way of support/attestation to what I do and/or by support in working for better laws (or helping prevent or at least working against laws that are degenerative and in opposition to my very [ethical] aims and goals), then I can't see what the problem would be. I would happily pay that fee. Btw .... What fee are we talking about, for breeders, Steve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Mmmmm. Right. I'm well out of this one Annie - can't argue with such conviction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Yes that would be great except they still have the same restrictions and when some who have life memberships actually export puppies to pet shops it sort of puts a damper on it all anyway.The accredited breeder programs are up and running now that's managed by the governing body do you think that's preferrable ? Tick the boxes and pay the fee and bobs your uncle. QLD is the only one who has that program at present as far as im aware, and no I don't agree with the tick the boxes and pay you get it. As I have previously said.. I'm saying if there is to be an elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) it should be done by the existing governing body.And awarded as a high honor based on morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment ANKC and It's members decide, not just pay a fee and you get it. No fee, an award. Sounds interesting - how do you see that managed? We hand one out at every awards evening with the Diane Gunn Scarcella memorial award. Its the only one we dont take nominations for from the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 It will cost a fee. Certainly. I'd even expect that. But if that organisation was no threat to what I did as a breeder (if I was one) and indeed if that organisation could provide me with some benefit, be that by way of support/attestation to what I do and/or by support in working for better laws (or helping prevent or at least working against laws that are degenerative and in opposition to my very [ethical] aims and goals), then I can't see what the problem would be. I would happily pay that fee.Btw .... What fee are we talking about, for breeders, Steve? Two fees Erny, still need to be a member of the ANKC if you want to import or export Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) oops Edited January 9, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now