Nekhbet Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 you better have a lot of land and be extremely experienced with large dominant, potentially human and dog aggressive dogs if you want a Caukaski Ovchar. Quarantine at that age wont do this type of dog many favours either. Lilli has Central Asian and Anatolians http://www.takasvolkodav.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hi Elina This time last year I was in Estonia. Didn't get to visit Finland, but definately will next time. I loved it. I visited a wheaten terrier breeder just outside Tallinn who was lovely. Hi Mollie10 I hope you'll get a chance to travel to Finland next time. Finland is quite similar with the climate, but everything is more expensive There are many easier LGD breeds, for example Pyrenean Mountain Dog, do you have these in Australia? We have had those in Finland for ages as a very good pets. They are almost as big and furry, but much more easier by their temperament. Yes, DOL member Espinay breeds them. Just finished reading the thread and see my name Yes, I have Pyrenean Mountain Dogs. Elina, I have actually just imported semen from a dog living in Finland :D . Back to the subject of CO's. I will say that I love and have a great respect for them as a breed. I also understand the lure of 'something different'. But there is absolutely no way I could recommend them to even most dog owning people let alone someone that has never really owned a dog before. While I love them, I would think twice (make that three times) about taking on one myself. The reason no one has imported them? Firstly you need to have a handy ten thousand give or take to bring even one here. Second, they would need a seriously dedicated owner, willing to keep any dogs they produce. Finding suitable homes would not be easy. In the wrong or inexperienced hands they are like a loaded weapon in the hands of a baby. You like the look of a CO? Then look at the Leonberger to start with. Not overly common here, but MUCH easier to handle. Not an LGD, though they were used in its development. Then you have LGD breeds, such as the Pyrenean Mountain Dog. Also not common. More of the highly independent LGD personality that requires a very particular owner, but at the 'easier to handle' end of the LGD scale. They can still present quite a challenge though and still need a reasonably dog savvy owner (or rather an owner that has the temperament to be a good leader). Or maybe look at the Tibetan Mastiff. Again, a dominant and challenging dog to own and not overly common but way easier to handle than a CO would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Africa Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) ok well thanx for the help everyone as much as it pains me i think you are all right i never thought of the hair issue and yes i agree it would be cruel. I dont want the dog just because its different and it think some of you miss understood what i meant. As far as some of you asking about livestock no i dont have any (i dont know if that was a stab or not) but no i dont. All i came on here for was to find some answers not to be interigated only a few people have helped the rest i think are taking the piss. Sorry but after reading some of the post here did piss me off and im sorry if they werent cheap shots but it did feel like it. after reading some of the other posts i do agree that its not the best idea to have a dog like that. As far as the going somewhere to spend time with them yes it a good idea but i was not going to get one anytime soon, i still have to save up to do it which will take a very long time and like i said i have decided against getting 1 for all the reasons everyone else has posted Thank you all for the info Edited January 21, 2011 by Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Africa Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Espinay2, The Tibetan Mastiff is stunning but same as the CO as in hair wise will they be ok here ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ok well thanx for the help everyone as much as it pains me i think you are all right i never thought of the hair issue and yes i agree it would be cruel.I dont want the dog just because its different and it think some of you miss understood what i meant. As far as some of you asking about livestock no i dont have any (i dont know if that was a stab or not) but no i dont. All i came on here for was to find some answers not to be interigated only a few people have helped the rest i think are taking the piss. Sorry but after reading some of the post here did piss me off and im sorry if they werent cheap shots but it did feel like it. after reading some of the other posts i do agree that its not the best idea to have a dog like that. As far as the going somewhere to spend time with them yes it a good idea but i was not going to get one anytime soon, i still have to save up to do it which will take a very long time and like i said i have decided against getting 1 for all the reasons everyone else has posted Thank you all for the info Africa Don't think anyone was taking the Piss. All just good advise - no-one wants to see the wrong dog in the wrong hands Happens way too often. Being from Africa yourself - have you looked into the South African Boerboel Could be just the dog for you. The breeder in NSW - Craig from Ataraxia Boerboels or Paul in Victoria at Dandaloo Boerboels. Good Luck and hope you make the right choice. Ash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Africa Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Africa Don't think anyone was taking the Piss. All just good advise - no-one wants to see the wrong dog in the wrong hands Happens way too often. Being from Africa yourself - have you looked into the South African Boerboel Could be just the dog for you. The breeder in NSW - Craig from Ataraxia Boerboels or Paul in Victoria at Dandaloo Boerboels. Good Luck and hope you make the right choice. Ash... Yeah i have looked at them they awsome looking dogs but not the sort of dog that really appeals to me. Sorry about before like i said just felt like it and reved me up a bit thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugUrPup Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Africa, if you are in to the giant Mountain dog breeds, perhaps consider a Bernese Mountain dog? They are divine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Great thread, Africa! The different breeds named in here are amazing looking dogs (gee you wouldnt want to nick someone's livestock, though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) My boy was so bloody good at protecting the sheep he used to bring home orphaned lambs, I ended up with 6 this season. I am still bewildered at how he did it as he would have had to get them over/under at least 5 sets of stock fencing with barb wire and they only ever had the tiniest grip marks on their shoulders. One morning we found him about 20 metres from the house in the horse paddock and it had been pouring all night and there he was soaked to the bone with a completely dry lamb. I thought he had been stealing them and it was a newborn so I drove it back up to the ewes and penned Jake up for the day but the next morning he was back with it. We named him Jordan and he was a right pita. We then caught him up there with my baby girl who is now called Panda and it was obvious that she had been abandoned as the sheep had already moved on into another paddock, I look at Panda now with her big fat belly and it reminds me of what a special dog he was. It actually started when I introduced him to a lamb I had found being attacked by wedgies unfortunately Freckle died overnight and the next day I found a dead black lamb in the driveway and the sheep were on the next property. I thought Jake had gone and killed it and brought it back but it was obvious that it had been dead for a few days and after that he kept finding lives ones and the occassional one that foxes had found first. Saying all of that if another animal or person came onto the property without being introduced he would be unstoppable in protecting his territory so he had to be managed very carefully and you could never be complacent with him God I miss my big boy Edited January 21, 2011 by casowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Well why not? A Russian Black Terrier, was taken to Grand Champion, out in the Western districts. It was a massive dog and not too friendly at times either. You might very well be just what a dog like that needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) IMO you cannot even compare a Russian to a CO Russians (and giants) are great at dog sports, used as police dogs etc. and do very well in human/dog activities. Nothing like the independent CO. I had Giant Schnauzers, good guarders, similar is some ways to the russian temp etc. (russians have giants in their heritage.) Giants can be dominant too and need good handling. Mine were great with sheep, babies/toddlers, cats.... but would scare the )(*&^%^& out of anyone who did not know them or strangers at the door etc. COs are considered to be THE most 'guard' breed there is. 100kg of angry suspicious dog is not something I'd like to be responsible for.. The fact that Africa is researching etc. is really wonderful! Edited January 22, 2011 by Monah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 IMO you cannot even compare a Russian to a CO Yes what he's on about is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Espinay2, The Tibetan Mastiff is stunning but same as the CO as in hair wise will they be ok here ??? All the breeds I mentioned (inlcuding my own Pyrs) have plenty of hair - just like the CO. You do need to make sure you brush them out well and pay particular attention when shedding to get rid of all dead undercoat. when they shed they shed LOTS. You have to get used to have hair on and in everything (all year round, but worse when shedding). In summer provided they are given a shady place to rest, plenty of fresh water and are not exercised in the heat of the day they do fine. In the garden they tend to dig large holes to sleep in to keep cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, yes. A well meaning person that has never owned a LGD before, has no livestock for the dog to guard daily, and has never met one of these dogs in the flesh is sure to be an ideal owner for a CO. Not. Like Raz and Monah, I hope you are not serious. I think Africa has made a very smart decision to look at other breeds, considering their experience & resources. And that's not intended to insult Africa, either - almost all people I know (including myself) couldn't offer these dogs what they need to keep them fulfilled and safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Africa- perhaps you could have an OS holiday,and spend time with some of these dogs 'in person' ?Wanting to be the only person with 'something different' ..and having never owned one of these types of dog before ..Hmmm... Unless properly socialized and trained, the Caucasian Ovcharka may exhibit ferocious and unmanageable tendencies. It is very brave, alert, strong and hardy. It does not accept people it does not know and it has a powerful urge to defend. Everything and everyone who belongs to the family, including children, cats, other dogs, etc, will be regarded by this dog as part of "its" family and will be respected and protected. This dog should not be left alone with children, because if play becomes too rough, the Caucasian Ovtcharka my feel the need to protect your child, and may do it extensively. It has no time for strangers, but it will greet family friends warmly. It can be rather dominant towards other dogs it does not know. taken from HERE On the purely practical.... trying to keep a 90kg cool in Australia could be a bit tricky!! Those coats are meant for snow and blizzards Click ->AMAZING DOGS!! but definitely not something I would want ! Scary dog. Wow. Dont think anyone needs a dog like that now days....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Well why not?A Russian Black Terrier, was taken to Grand Champion, out in the Western districts. It was a massive dog and not too friendly at times either. You might very well be just what a dog like that needs. If they are, it would probably be better that they get some hands on experience a. by owning a dog first - perhaps another LGD breed so they begin to understand LGD ways and b. by going overseas and meeting the breed in the flesh in their home environment (not just at shows). To recommend 'why not' in this situation is IMO like saying 'sure, you can play with the chainsaw' to a five year old. Edited to add - a CO is also rather different from a Black Russian Terrier - think mega guarding instinct combined with strong independence (meaning they work totally on instinct and dont follow orders!) More than pretty much any other breed they 'co-habitate' with them - people dont own them. Edited January 22, 2011 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Espinay, what about a long coated Kangal? Just curious since reading about the breeds in this thread - are they double coated and how common/rare are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Well why not? A Russian Black Terrier, was taken to Grand Champion, out in the Western districts. It was a massive dog and not too friendly at times either. You might very well be just what a dog like that needs. Edited to add - a CO is also rather different from a Black Russian Terrier - think mega guarding instinct combined with strong independence (meaning they work totally on instinct and dont follow orders!) More than pretty much any other breed they 'co-habitate' with them - people dont own them. Sounds very much like a Maremma. There are many Guardian breeds, all with this same trait. The CO is unique in its size only. Saying that they were bred to "Kill" is not only misleading but irresponsible. They were bred to guard. Biology is nothing if it is not economical in its energy expenditure. Guardian breeds will only attack as a last resort, unless of course you have a rogue dog which is a completely separate issue. "Even though they are not usually suitable for urban living, they are often chosen as personal protection dogs because they will be as protective of their human family and their children as they would of their flock." There are many reasons Africa might not choose a CO but because it is a dog, albeit a very big dog, is the least of them. Edited January 22, 2011 by pewithers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Pewithers I am sorry but I strongly disagree about that, the CASD is much more instinctial in the actual protection of property than a maremma (meaning that they will defend quickly and ferociously to what THEY perceive as a threat) and a CO is even more so than a CASD/CAO. I have worked with maremmas but I was not prepared for my CASD even after 20 plus years working with large breed dogs, Seeing my boy in a full drive mode knowing the outcome if I was complacent was quite honestly frightening. Saying that a CO is similiar to a maremma is to me a very dangerous statement I believe. In the right home with the right handling I think a CO would be able to be kept safely but there has to be the right people and unfortunately there are not very many homes that would suit one The Caucasian Shepherd Dog also differs from the majority of other LGD breeds when it comes to its primary drives, because it is more than just a typical livestock guardian which is governed by basic defense drive. Alongside only a handful of other Molossers known for being a "step above" when it comes to the seriousness with which the job of defense is regarded by such dogs, the CO also has an elevated prey drive, which is not a common characteristic of most livestock guardian breeds. Unlike many LGD's whose job was mainly centered around being a deterrent primarily and a "last resort" combatant in addition, the Caucasian Ovtcharka was not only kept to protect the flock and property, but was also expected to chase, engage and even kill those predators that refuse to back off immediately. Edited January 22, 2011 by casowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Pewithers I am sorry but I strongly disagree about that, the CASD is much more instinctial in the actual protection of property than a maremma (meaning that they will defend quickly and ferociously to what THEY perceive as a threat) and a CO is even more so than a CASD/CAO. I have worked with maremmas but I was not prepared for my CASD even after 20 plus years working with large breed dogs, Seeing my boy in a full drive mode knowing the outcome if I was complacent was quite honestly frightening. Saying that a CO is similiar to a maremma is to me a very dangerous statement I believe.In the right home with the right handling I think a CO would be able to be kept safely but there has to be the right people and unfortunately there are not very many homes that would suit one Well agreed on some points. But there is a Deja vu here because many of the arguments were levelled against me when I was road testing Maremmas. Maremmas are pretty quick and ferocious on property. Being frightened of what dogs are capable of, is a very wise attitude. CO must have had bears as adversaries, being north european and all. I have found that my dogs temper their responses to the level of threat. The type of dog you are describing is 'psychotic' and is a criticism that I feel is unfairly laid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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