Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) Theres been a few videos going around lately with "guilty" dogs in them. Do you think dog's actually feel guilty? I have been taught no, they are reading the body language of the human and have learnt from past experience the circumstances that cause the human to be angry and punish them. Then some dogs may be more sensitive than others or have had a harsher experience in the past. My parents think they feel guilty. They (especially dad) are big on the "who did THIS?" with the whole posturing and tone of voice. So when I explained my view they burst out laughing and said you can't possibly think that! come on look at them! you've seen them being guilty! Now mum has sent me this video in an email and the text says this: "Anyone who thinks a dog does not remember or does not feel guilt has not lived with a dog. Just look at the expressions on the faces of these three dogs when they are asked the same question at the same time.....same tone of voice. The guilty one cannot help but feel guilty while the others have no look of guilt whatsoever. They are all being asked the same question." This is the clip: I have no problem laughing at the cute video but I know she's trying to prove me wrong! So, what do you think? Edited September 19, 2011 by Lollipup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I'd probably suggest that the owner is guilty of anthropomorphising ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 I'd probably suggest that the owner is guilty of anthropomorphising ;) my mum even has a bachelor of science so she should know what anthropomorphising is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 There is also a video that's going around which proves that a dog who hasn't done anything wrong at all is just as likely to do the 'guilty' look when the owner starts with the whole 'who did this' routine. I don't have the video but someone else might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 What do you think of the video? Do you think the white dog is more sensitive or has had a bad experience? Why do you think the other two looked at him right on cue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 There is also a video that's going around which proves that a dog who hasn't done anything wrong at all is just as likely to do the 'guilty' look when the owner starts with the whole 'who did this' routine. I don't have the video but someone else might. Oh I would love the link to send back as my reply to Mum! Hope someone can find it. Do you know what its called at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 it's called training repeat things enough times, keep rewarding it with attention then convince yourself the dogs totally understand what you're saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 it's called training repeat things enough times, keep rewarding it with attention then convince yourself the dogs totally understand what you're saying Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) its the same when people say something they think the dog understands. You see they change their tone, body language, facial expression etc even if they dont realise. Say the same thing in a different position and tone the dog wont react. My friends are convinced you cant say 'hungry' in their house without their dogs going berzerk. So I said it monotone without going 'hey puppy ... are ... you ... HUNGRY!' like they do. I danced around the dog going 'hungry hungry hungry' in a boring manner and the dog just looked at me. No running to the food box and going spastic like usual. I dont understand people that feel the need to spell words out ... yes ... they even spell it out to me in case the dogs go off. We manage to convince ourselves, and dogs being an opportunistic animal wont say no to an opportunity for attention/reward or simply follow apattern they see as part of life - the 'oh dear the humans are doing that thing again I have to react this way' routine. But if it makes peopl feel better ... yes they feel guilty :p Edited September 19, 2011 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Lol if i say to mason, are u begging, he looks away all guilty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 There is also a video that's going around which proves that a dog who hasn't done anything wrong at all is just as likely to do the 'guilty' look when the owner starts with the whole 'who did this' routine. I don't have the video but someone else might. Oh I would love the link to send back as my reply to Mum! Hope someone can find it. Do you know what its called at all? are you referring to the "denver" yellow lab youtube video? if you search youtube for something like "guilty dog denver" the clip will come up and also the video clip discussing animal behaviour regarding Denver's perceived guilty behaviour should be in the list too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 There is also a video that's going around which proves that a dog who hasn't done anything wrong at all is just as likely to do the 'guilty' look when the owner starts with the whole 'who did this' routine. I don't have the video but someone else might. Oh I would love the link to send back as my reply to Mum! Hope someone can find it. Do you know what its called at all? are you referring to the "denver" yellow lab youtube video? if you search youtube for something like "guilty dog denver" the clip will come up and also the video clip discussing animal behaviour regarding Denver's perceived guilty behaviour should be in the list too. I've seen that one but I thought the filmer in that was trying to show that his dog is actually guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) Here it is I think it is showing that even though the second dog didn't take the treat it still acts guilty when our body language accuses them of being guilty. They are reacting to our body language not the deed. Edited September 19, 2011 by kiesha09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 There is also a video that's going around which proves that a dog who hasn't done anything wrong at all is just as likely to do the 'guilty' look when the owner starts with the whole 'who did this' routine. I don't have the video but someone else might. Oh I would love the link to send back as my reply to Mum! Hope someone can find it. Do you know what its called at all? are you referring to the "denver" yellow lab youtube video? if you search youtube for something like "guilty dog denver" the clip will come up and also the video clip discussing animal behaviour regarding Denver's perceived guilty behaviour should be in the list too. I've seen that one but I thought the filmer in that was trying to show that his dog is actually guilty? there is another video that will come up with the 'Denver' search explaining the perception of the dog's guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Ahh thanks for those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Can see why she thinks the white dog looks guilty - particularly when the other 2 have "dobbed". To know whether or not this is the dog that made the mess you would have to have caught him making the mess (serveillance cameras work well). As you said he might just hate the fuss or become scared (through previous experience) when someone makes a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim'sMum Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 With the ACD we had, we would come home from being out and he would not greet us, but hide under furniture. It was then a case of searching for the naughty thing he had done....his bed or a cushion ripped up perhaps. Did he feel guilt? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I don't know if they feel guilty or not, but they sure know how to elicit guilt in US. Me: "Dory, you have to wait here". Dory: Ears down, Tail down, Head down, slinks off to the couch with 'sad' face. Me: *feeling totally guilty* Oh...alright, Come on. Dory: Happy, Happy, Happy Dance. Behaviour...Rewarded.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yep every time someone farts I ask who was that? If it was zorro he will look away and will not make eye contact and he will do a little whine, but if it was my BF he will not look that way as he knows it was not him and will look normal. I think feels guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I will admit that I don't particularly like that video because one of my dogs behaves in a similar manner... she does NOT have to have done anything remotely "naughty". She is very sensitive to our emotions and body language and although she has always been treated wonderfully she thinks that displeasing her humans is a very bad thing. If she gets a mild telling off for something she has done outside (for example ripping up the bed) she'll squint and grovel and go hide somewhere. And the next day, the second you open the door she will act the same way even though she has done nothing. She's not feeling guilty, she is anticipating our behaviour. If we so much raise our voice at our other dog, our sensitive girl will still squint and grovel. Even if she feels tension in the room she will often just get up and leave and go lie under the bed. In saying that she is a super happy and quite confident girl, she just doesn't like any tension whatsoever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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