Mason_Gibbs Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 My Mason is going through a phase where he is bored of heelwork and easily distracted, besides giving him a break in training ( i dont do excessive heelwork as it is) what sort of 'games' or little things can i do to peak his interest in it? Hoping to do open obedience next year if he passes his last novice trial this year and i would like his heelwork to go back to where it was earlier in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 If Kivi gets distracted I usually assume there's a problem either with the reward rate or the environment is bothering him in some way. My attitude is that he will find heel interesting if everything is right. If he's not finding heel interesting, there's something wrong. Bob Bailey says dogs don't get bored of doing behaviours. They get reinforcement problems. Kivi gets fractious at training classes. Too much standing around = drop in reinforcement rate = frustration, loss of focus, loss of precision, loss of motivation. Not saying you're standing around, just explaining what happens when the reward rate isn't high enough. You can check if rewards are the problem by playing around with the type of reward and reward rate to see how he responds. If his response to an increase in rewards or reward value or a change of reward is still not that great, I'd be looking at the environment. Something there probably is bothering him. It could even conceivably be something you're doing. Find out what it is and do some counter-conditioning. If his interest re-ignites with playing around with rewards, try moving back to a continuous reward schedule and reward as much as you did to begin with, then move to a variable reward schedule again, but this time do it more slowly and carefully. I posted something once about Ken Ramirez' recipe for moving to a variable reward schedule. It is tried and true. Some dogs work better with lots of variety in rewards. Throw in some tricks and play between heeling bouts to make it more fun. Use favoured behaviours to reward heel, but don't forget to reward the favoured behaviours most of the time. There's all sorts of other motivational things you can do. Other people will tell you about those. I'm just the learning theory geek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 I find its all since my puppy came home its like he is jelous that i work with him and now he doesnt want to work well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 If Toby gives me a poor effort he goes away. I then train the pup or just 'have some fun' - i.e throw around his Cuz etc. He will then get a second chance, I will start for asking something easy/fun and rewarding well then asking for the behaviour I had a poor effort with, usually he is MUCH more interested. If he isn't that's it he is done (And I have driven all the way down to K9 and not trained with him a few times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I dunno about the dog getting bored - but I know I do with ordinary heel work. So in our "fun class" - we mix in a lot of other stuff - at the moment - a lot of dances with dogs moves. Ie heel work on the right, dog spins as you spin, dog and you forwards, backwards, sideways in many combinations, leg weaves - moving or standing still etc. We're currently working on heeling backwards with dog on the right - she can do it well on the left, but not the right for some reason. And we're working on SG's "sit pretty" ie a classic beg pose. When we get that we will work on "stand pretty". I really didn't think my dog would be able to do either ever, but we're getting there. Working on her balance at the moment. She's not like a jack russell that can do it without any muscle work up at all. I think the less predictable the class is, and the more opportunities to earn a reward the better. One more thing - for keeping a dog excited about training - balance breaks (SG idea too) - like a coffee break - some mindless frustration free fun for you and the dog - eg tug or just running around and playing chase me (dog chases handler ideally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 I never trsin for more than 10 minutes at a time and i always play with him before training, he will do quite nice work when we train on our own but if i train with others or when i compete he tends to drift away with the fairies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I never trsin for more than 10 minutes at a time and i always play with him before training, he will do quite nice work when we train on our own but if i train with others or when i compete he tends to drift away with the fairies There's a big fat clue there! Try increasing your reward rate when he's around others and see what happens. Given you can't reward so well when you're competing, that's another clue, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I never trsin for more than 10 minutes at a time and i always play with him before training, he will do quite nice work when we train on our own but if i train with others or when i compete he tends to drift away with the fairies There's a big fat clue there! Try increasing your reward rate when he's around others and see what happens. Given you can't reward so well when you're competing, that's another clue, there. I too have problems with heeling in the ring. My girl heels beautifully during training, but it's all gone as soon as the judge says "forward". I'm watching this thread with interest for ideas. Sorry I can't offer any myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) I never trsin for more than 10 minutes at a time and i always play with him before training, he will do quite nice work when we train on our own but if i train with others or when i compete he tends to drift away with the fairies I would be working on duration heeling on your own. Then add distractions and ask for only a fraction of what you are asking for when training on your own and reward with THE best treats you can come up with. Build up duration heeling in the presence of others and then get the food away from you - running to a bait plate, hiding food in the training area etc - back to basics if you have to. Not sure about the play session before training. Maybe it's rewarding him for doing nothing? If he loves that, then ask for a few seconds of heel position - then PLAY - and repeat! ETA: I think our body language changes quite a bit from training to competing too so worth training for that too! Edited November 6, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Iv tried all if these things, going to have to have a bit of a think myself and come up with something... Usually if i give him a break from heelwork he comes good but i would like to do the trial on friday night and then leave heelwork and train other stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Have you trained any tricks? Does he get excited if you ask him for something different? Gotta go to work...I'll get back to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Bedazzled I think I may need to teach him some new stuff, we made my jump today so he can learn that for open and I need to work more on seek back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilmisssascha83 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Am going to keep watchin this thread for ideas too. Sasha finds it boring too and so do I LOL. We never practice for very long as it isn't the most exciting thing. I do try to play little games with her while doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Have you looked at Dawn Jecs and Choose To Heel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Tried some stuff tonight while training with a friend and it seems to have helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You're in the right state, anyway M-G - lots of heeling gurus there. I used to be in the 'didn't find heelwork interesting' camp (came from a traditional training background) but I've been lucky enough to have a series of gurus, starting with Mary Ray, and moving on to the chief WA guru, with a couple of others in between (including being shown the Choose to Heel philosophy), and now I'm finding working on heeling is rewarding and exciting - so of course that flows through to the lil big man. We still have plenty of work to do on duration focussed heeling, and on distraction proofing, but the times when it all comes together are magical. We do little bits at a time, with a particular aim in mind, and party hard. I'm finding working on precision turns (for Rally O as well as formal obedience) as separate things is proving fun for both of us. Going back to your original post, I wouldn't be playing with the dog before training - since he finds play rewarding, that gives you the chance to use the Premack principle - a little bit of nice high energy work will earn you playtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 We did a seminar at the beginning of the year and were told to have a play first as that gets them excited, I'm afraid my dog is too laid back and placid if I don't try get him moving before hand he lacks enthusiasm and looks like a slow motion wind up toy who's batteries are running flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Oh, OK - that sort of play - my misunderstanding. We learnt a great motivation game at the Kath and Kim Heelwork to Music seminar in Melbourne earlier in the year. Trouble is it's best played indoors cos it involves throwing visible food as far as you can . Also involves having the dog jump up on you to get rewarded at the beginning and end of the game. It's fast and furious, highly energising for all concerned - worked a treat with a black lab over here who learnt it last week. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Our strategy is similar, we use the 2 food game now to gee him up and then go straight into heel work. Kath & Kim heelwork ??? Tell me more??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Kath & Kim heelwork ??? Tell me more??? Does it get it's name from "look at moiiiiiiiii!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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