Bud Buns Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) Hi every one. I am hoping some peeps on here are able to help me with some advice about purchasing an English Staffy pup. To be honest I'm not sure where to start We live in Melbourne, and now that our children are a little bit older (5 and 7) we think it's time to introduce a new member to the family, a four legged one What would one expect to pay for a pup? How important are 'papers' I've never seen dog papers and I'm sure if someone showed them to me I'd have no idea what any of it meant I've been having a look online recently to try and figure it all out but there seems to be a massive difference in prices everywhere, I've seen 'pure bred' pups advertised anywhere from $500 (no papers, but parents on view) to $2,200 (with papers)What is reasonable? Is seeing the parents enough? I have been told by a breeder of AmStaff's not to trust anyone selling different coloured dogs for more due to 'being rare'. We're not after a show dog or anything like that, just a sweet dog we can love and have be a part of the family. Any one have any advice for me, please? Cheers K Edited December 12, 2011 by Bud Buns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) Hi Bud Buns If you've seen "pure bred" pups with no papers, you can't be sure that they're actually purebred at all. If I were you and looking to buy a Staff, I'd make 100% sure that I bought one from a registered breeder that will provide you with pedigree papers. Basically, registered breeders are breeders registered with their state's Canine Council. If someone tells you they're a registered breeder with their council, they are not a registered breeder. Registration in this sense only means with the state Canine Council. Eg, in Vic this is Dogs Victoria. Registered breeders will sell you a pup with "papers", which is a pedigree. That means the dog is also registered with the Canine Council. Registered breeders are bound by a code of ethics which governs what they can and cannot do. As with any organisation or activity though, some are more ethical than others. You will want to make sure that you find a good breeder who is seeking to breed healthy pups with the kind of temperament and activity level that you are looking for. There are lots of Stafford people on here who will I'm sure be able to tell you more abuot this, and where to go. As you are in Melbourne, it's even more important to buy a pup with papers due to the hysteria around pitbulls and part pitbulls in Victoria at the moment. Any dog that in any way looks like it has pitbull in it is in danger, in my opinion. So if you're after a Staffordshire, you really need to make sure that you have pedigree papers proving that your dog is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and has no pitbull in them at all. You're right about some breeders breeding for particular colours. At the moment, blue Staffordshires are all the rage, and some breeders will charge extra for blue pups. Any time a breeder is breeding for a particular colour, it may be that their concerns for health and other important things become less of a priority. Obviously you want a healthy pup not just a pup of a particular colour..! As for prices, I'm sure someone else here will be able to help you there, and with breeder suggestions. I'm a poodle person myself! The puppy listing (click 'puppies for sale') on the top right hand side of the forum would be a good guide for pricing though. Edited December 12, 2011 by Alkhe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Staffies aren't a breed I have a lot to do with although I do love them In terms of papers - if I was to get a "bull" breed I don't think I would get one without papers to prove exactly what they are in this age of Breed Specific Legistration. If the dog has papers you also have more of a guarantee that your dogs actually are purebred. I would also want to see the mother and at least photos of the father if they are in the same State - or if buying from interstate I would want to see photos of both parents and photos of the Mum with the pups People who supply dogs without papers are also less likely to have health tested the parents, which for me is a big thing. I have no real ethical problems with people breeding unregistered dogs as long as they have actually gone to the trouble of testing the parents for possible health conditions. So make sure you find out exactly what pre-breeding tests should be done on the parents and if there are any extra checks that should be done on the pups before they are rehomed (ie in some breeds pups usually have an eye exam around 7-8 weeks). Good luck finding a new family member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Buns Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Thanks for that, yes a healthy happy pup is the most important thing to me. You're right about there being a mass hysteria in Melbourne ATM, especially around here as we are not far from where little Ayen Chol was attacked, so papers really are important then? Good to know. I'll have a look at the dogs victoria site too. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hi There is explanation/info here which might help you understand . Good luck with choosing your puppy! LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Be careful of that description, English Staffy. It isn't a breed name, it's a rather lazy way of describing a breed, sometimes used by those wanting to attract unwary buyers. Why not visit a dog show? Top breeders are active in the show ring, and you will be able to see some really fantastic dogs. Not all of the dogs that the top breeders breed will be show champions, but many will make excellent pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Buns Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Another question, I saw an ad recently for a puppies that said the parents have papers, does that automatically mean the puppies have papers too? or does each dog have it's own set of papers? is it unreasonable to ask the seller to provide a copy of the papers for me to keep? In regards to the health, most ads I've seen (please note that these are mainly classified ads, not from breeders) say the pups are vaccinated, health checked etc, should I be asking if the pups have had any particular tests? I know puppies can be cleared of some disease by their parents being clear, but I'm not sure what disease or what tests etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Buns Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Be careful of that description, English Staffy. It isn't a breed name, it's a rather lazy way of describing a breed, sometimes used by those wanting to attract unwary buyers. Really? I didn't know that!!! How do I go about finding a dog show? I know there's something up near my in-laws place (we drive past it when we visit them)...I think I'll try google it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) Here is a bit of "light" reading for you :D http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/170006-staffordshire-bull-terrier/page__pid__3772839#entry3772839 As for shows, on the DogsVic website there will be a list of shows. ETA: If it says "parents have papers" rather than stating the pups are registered I would think that the pups won't have their own papers. Edited December 12, 2011 by mirawee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Another question, I saw an ad recently for a puppies that said the parents have papers, does that automatically mean the puppies have papers too? or does each dog have it's own set of papers? is it unreasonable to ask the seller to provide a copy of the papers for me to keep? In regards to the health, most ads I've seen (please note that these are mainly classified ads, not from breeders) say the pups are vaccinated, health checked etc, should I be asking if the pups have had any particular tests? I know puppies can be cleared of some disease by their parents being clear, but I'm not sure what disease or what tests etc. Some BYBs have obtained a registered dog, but are not themselves registered as breeders with Dogs Vic (or the relevant Canine Council) - hence only saying the parents have papers ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Cannot stress enough how important it is to buy a pup with papers knowing that you live in Victoria. The new legislation means that if a ranger shows up to your house because you have registered a Staffordshire Bull Terrier at the property (or a nasty neighbour calls the Dob in a Dog hotline) and they look at the dog and deem it to actually be a "Pitbull" and you have no Pedigree Papers they can seize your dog and you then either have to follow the rules for having a Pitbull (muzzled in public, always on leash in public, special enclosures, signage on your fencing and higher registration fees as you have a "dangerous" dog) or you have the dog PTS. Please go to a Registered Breeder and get Pedigree Papers. I would highly suggest you do some research on the new laws as well so you are prepared if a Ranger ever does come a knocking. In relation to finding an ethical breeder (not all Registered breeders are ethical), please make sure they do health testing on the parents (I am unsure of what tests are required for Staffs, a more experience Staff owner could tell you) and that they do not breed for Blue dogs ie: any kennel boasting about Blue pups or with Blue in their name is probably not the way to go. Anyone who has blue pups should not have bred two blue dogs together for health reasons. Blue pups will often end up with a lot of skin issues (related to the gene that causes their coat to be a dilute) which can be stressful, costly and painful for the pup (and you). Please also look for a breeder who breeds for a good temperament. Staffs are awesome, friendly dogs but like all dogs if badly bred (ie: breeding dogs that have behavioural issues) they can have behavioural/temperament issues that might be impossible to stop or fix. Ie: you want to see the parents interacting happily with the pups, other dogs, people etc. If the breeder keeps one or both of the parents isolated then I would ask why. Don't be afraid to ask the breeder questions, don't get overly personal but make sure you ask questions. And expect a lot of questions in return. Please also make sure you start socialising and training your pup as early as possible (not at 16 weeks after all its vaccinations, you miss a critical socialisation period by doing this) be smart about it ie: don't go to dog parks (lots of possible diseases) instead organise play dates with dogs that you know are friendly and vaccinated and remember socialisation isn't just to dogs and people, it is to other animals, and to different situations, household objects etc. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 And just to throw a downer on all the good advice, I would only buy from a breeder who comes recommended. Some registered breeders are better than others, the trick is finding the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Agree with BiteMe - there are a fair few stafford breeders that look pretty dodgy to me - it isn't particularly hard to become a registered breeder. Why not pop into the stafford sub-forum and ask for a recommendation there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Another question, I saw an ad recently for a puppies that said the parents have papers, does that automatically mean the puppies have papers too? or does each dog have it's own set of papers? is it unreasonable to ask the seller to provide a copy of the papers for me to keep? In regards to the health, most ads I've seen (please note that these are mainly classified ads, not from breeders) say the pups are vaccinated, health checked etc, should I be asking if the pups have had any particular tests? I know puppies can be cleared of some disease by their parents being clear, but I'm not sure what disease or what tests etc. Yep, each dog has its own set of papers. It's completely reasonable, and in fact expected, for the breeder to provide you with your puppy's own papers once you have purchased it. Even if the breeder's own dogs have pedigree papers, your puppy will need to have its own papers also- the breeder would arrange for this to happen by registering the litter with Dogs Vic. Regarding diseases- health checks and vaccinations for pups are really important, yes. But in addition to these, good breeders (and the kind I would go to) would test their dogs before breeding them together, to make sure the resulting puppies don't have any particular health conditions that breed is prone to. I'm not sure about Staffords but for example, when I was buying my dog, I wanted to make sure that she was free from a particular eye disease (progressive retinal atrophy, or PRA, which makes dogs go blind). I knew that she was not going to get PRA as her parents had both tested clear. Some breeds are prone to things like hip dysplasia, which is a disease that has similar symptoms to arthritis, and which doesn't often manifset until after puppyhood. You can't actually TEST for it, but what you can do is make sure that you only breed dogs together who have 'good' hips, that are less likely to create pups with problems. This is the link to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of Vic. I'm sure they have lots of info on there that you might want to read up on, and they might have upcoming shows listed too. I'm at work so should stop procrastinating and leave this thread, otherwise I'd check for you! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 some things potential buyers can look for. See ads with the following, run a mile bred specifically for family pets the entire litter is on the main register blue to blue mating claim the pup is a pied when it's simply a black brindle with a white chest and possibly socks the non blue pups in a litter are heavily discounted (meaning they are sold closer to the going rate for an SBT pup) "carry the blue genes" "carry the blue pied gene" parents are in excess of 20kgs some 25kg's or more and it's promoted as a good thing "english staffy" blue makes a perfect show dog none of the pups are line bred and that's promoted as a plus when you can clearly see patches of hair missing in puppy pics (or any pics) when they can't spell "conformation" generations of blue big bitch with a massive head blue has a black nose when all they can talk about from a potential litter is the perfect colour they might produce when the majority of what they say about their adult dogs, consists of it's coat colour and "personality" "has an excellent pedigree" with not a CH, CD, ET or any other title to be seen big chunky bitch with a head like a boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Buns Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Awesome info thank you all so much!! Lots of our friends and family have dogs so our pup will definately be well socialised, and also having two kids ourselves along with five neices and nephews, socialisation will be very important. I'm hoping to find one in the next couple of weeks, as we have school holidays and I will be able to spend lots of time training and socialising, and getting into a routine etc. Sooo can anybody recommend a decent breeder? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 If you purchase from a registered breeder in NSW or VIC, papers are not optional, it's is mandatory that every puppy from every litter be registered. It is also mandatory that those papers are provided to the purchaser ( not simply copies of parents or pups papers ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 As has been suggested, it's worth hopping over to the Stafford thread in the Breed sub-forums here And the next all breeds shows will be at Lancefield 27th, 28th, 29th. You might be able to take a run out there and have a prowl round to look at some dogs and maybe check out some breeders. Just don't try to talk to people when they're rushing to get into the ring, or when they're coming out having just been beaten :D . You'll be looking for the Group 2 ring - the Terrier Group. Dogs Victoria office may be able to tell you what likely time of day they'll be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugeanjaam Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Sorry I can't help answer you questions as I don't know much about Staffy's but good on you for taking the time and asking the questions!! I hope you find the perfect pup for your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I'm hoping to find one in the next couple of weeks Don't rush! Take your time to find the right breeder and the right pup. Afterall she/he will be your new family member and will live with you for many, many years. You may be lucky and get the pup fairly soon or you may need to go on a waiting list. Edited to change the huge size of "Don't rush" Edited December 12, 2011 by HonBun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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