Pyometra Or Mammary Cancer

[goldielover]

My vet quoted me similar stats to stormie re mammary tumours

I'm not sure of the prevalence of pyo. I am a very small breeder and haven't had any bitches with it yet, but i do know many breeders who have experienced it - all have been over 5 - not sure if this is a coincidence or not, but i haven't heard of any younger bitches developing pyo in my breed, although i'm sure there have been cases

[WreckitWhippet]

There's no point in a bitch having any seasons if you aren't going to breed her. Each time she has a cycle there is the possibility that she will have a pyo. It also increases the chances of mammary tumors.

There is if you want it to grow and develop properly

[YOLO]

It’s all a bit scary.

I’ve owned one bitch but Coco had other problems so these never became an issue, and she passed away at a relatively young age.

I have no immediate desire to become a breeder, so maybe a male puppy would be easier…

[Dogsfevr]

If your getting an older dog chances are it will already be spayed especially a bitch .

If getting a bitch & planning to keep her entire your current male may decide that isn't fun for him even though he is spayed .

We are breeders but i can't stand girls in season so we have a small number of entire bitches & once retired they are spayed asap .

We have had 2 pyo s picked up very early as we pay attention which is a must with entire animals

Girls in season are either something you are happy to deal with or not ,you can certainly spay when more mature in a larger breed

[Elise+Hudson]

I got these stats on Mammary cancer from a Repro course I did recently...

Desexing:

before the first heat results in a 0.05% lifetime risk of developing mammary cancer.

After 1 heat = 8% lifetime risk

After 2 heats = 25% lifetime risk

After 3 heats = 50% lifetime risk

After 4 heats = greater than 75% lifetime risk

If you have a link to the paper these are from, or any details I would really appreciate them!

As a vet I know I mostly see one side of these things, but it certainly has made me much more aware for the day when I will own entire bitches.

[Elise+Hudson]

There's no point in a bitch having any seasons if you aren't going to breed her. Each time she has a cycle there is the possibility that she will have a pyo. It also increases the chances of mammary tumors.

There is if you want it to grow and develop properly

This is something I don't understand completely that gets thrown around a whole lot. I would be interested in any research which has concluded that desexing at the standard 5-7 month age bracket has adverse effects on growth and skeletal maturity.

[Rappie]

I got these stats on Mammary cancer from a Repro course I did recently...

Desexing:

before the first heat results in a 0.05% lifetime risk of developing mammary cancer.

After 1 heat = 8% lifetime risk

After 2 heats = 25% lifetime risk

After 3 heats = 50% lifetime risk

After 4 heats = greater than 75% lifetime risk

If you have a link to the paper these are from, or any details I would really appreciate them!

As a vet I know I mostly see one side of these things, but it certainly has made me much more aware for the day when I will own entire bitches.

I think I have the article these stats are from, but I don't remember the 75% lifetime risk aspect of it - more so that after the 4th heat there isn't a significant benefit from speying at that time (although there is a reported small protective benefit against malignant tumours at any time. Happy to see if I can find the article and get the reference for you.

[Guest Clover]

I've never had a bitch with pyo but it's something that you need to be mindfull of.

If you aren't going to breed your bitch then letting her have a couple of seasons to mature and then desexing would be an idea to think about.

As for mammary cancer, I'm yet to have one of those either but again it does happen and you need to know the signs

I have left my girl til fully grown, I have second guessed myself so many times though. But only time will tell if leaving her to have a couple of seasons will cause any problems.

But then I keep forgetting that Clover was 3 years old when she was desexed and she never had a problem with mammary tumours, and just some old age incontinence.

[Elise+Hudson]

I think I have the article these stats are from, but I don't remember the 75% lifetime risk aspect of it - more so that after the 4th heat there isn't a significant benefit from speying at that time (although there is a reported small protective benefit against malignant tumours at any time. Happy to see if I can find the article and get the reference for you.

That wound be fantastic :) I always have this discussion with my new puppy owners, so would love to read the article if you do find it by any chance.

Just wanted to add - love your signature! The nurses at work fondly call me the 'ninja vet' haha.

[YOLO]

If your getting an older dog chances are it will already be spayed especially a bitch .

If getting a bitch & planning to keep her entire your current male may decide that isn't fun for him even though he is spayed .

We are breeders but i can't stand girls in season so we have a small number of entire bitches & once retired they are spayed asap .

We have had 2 pyo s picked up very early as we pay attention which is a must with entire animals

Girls in season are either something you are happy to deal with or not ,you can certainly spay when more mature in a larger breed

Coco had a few seasons, Jasper was around for one or two. One resulting in a false pregnancy, which had her vet amazed considering how ill she was. He thought her treatments would have put paid to anything like that.

Jasper always doted on Coco, so it was never a problem.

I'm leaning towards a puppy, and knowing Jasper I think he will grow to love either a bitch or a little brother.

I was completely ignorant of these two diseases when we had Coco, but now the prospect of an entire bitch is a bit scary. IMHO the issues with a Male dog are very straight forward and keeping entire doesn’t give me any cause for concern.

[OSoSwift]

I have owned a few bitches so here goes.

First Bitch

Rottweiler - desexed at 8 months, buy 12 months had incontinence, euthed at 3 years due to Quality of life issues due to OCD

Second Bitch

Dobermann - desexed at 6 years after she had a caesar, then got an infection and got desexed in a rather short timeframe! Was incontinent by around 7 1/2 to 8 years of age, had a small cyst on a teat but that was it, died at almost 12 from DCM.

Third Bitch

Dobermann - Had an open pyo at 5 years of age, started in the last few days that her season finished, was treated then she was speyed before her next season. Was incontinent by 6 years of age, treated her on and off for it until she died at 8 and a half from DCM

Fourth Bitch

Whippet - just turned 5, entire no issues so far, will be desexed by 6 years of age or there abouts. I am not looking forward to it as all my bitches have had incontinence to some degree within 18 months of desexing. I am choosing to desex her to make sure she cannot be misnated when she is too old to have babies, not having seasons is easier, no having to be locked up kept away from the entire males etc and also to avoid any potential infections.

[espinay2]

There's no point in a bitch having any seasons if you aren't going to breed her. Each time she has a cycle there is the possibility that she will have a pyo. It also increases the chances of mammary tumors.

There is if you want it to grow and develop properly

This is something I don't understand completely that gets thrown around a whole lot. I would be interested in any research which has concluded that desexing at the standard 5-7 month age bracket has adverse effects on growth and skeletal maturity.

Article on the most recent study done at UC Davis :

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0055937

Edited March 1, 2013 by espinay2

[Guest donatella]

I would like to see similar done on small breeds also as I believe they grow/mature at different rates to large breeds.

[LizT]

All my life I have owned non desexed bitches, it was the practise to castrate the family male pet and leave the bitches intact. Probably because it was cheaper to do the male and unwanted puppies were not going to be a problem. Half a century and many dogs later I have yet to experience pyometra and have had one bitch, a Border Collie X ACD having mammory cancer at 12. She was given a radical mastectomy and hysterectomy and died three months later of a stroke, unrelated. NONE of my bitches were bred from. No wait lie, one, a mixed breed terrier, when I was a child had two litters of pups to a Poodle.

Now, half a century later, as a dog breeder, I have bred my first bitches in the past two and a half years and as mentioned by other posts see the need to be very mindful of the possiblity of these conditions. Protection against mammary cancer has flown the coupe, so to speak, in terms of desexing protection forthese girls, as, as I understand it from information from Verterinary Science, the protection offered by desexing is most effective IF DONE BEFORE 6 MONTHS OF AGE.

As to pyometra, again, vigilence and observation, a must for all pet owners, is high on the agenda. But no, I won't be desexing any girls that remain with me just as a matter of routine. Only, if required.

Edited March 2, 2013 by LizT

[Steve]

Ive been around entire dogs all my life and Ive never had a dog with mammary cancer, or pyro - or testicular cancer.

Most have lived to mid to late teens and all were bred. A couple have been desexed when they got older but I found they

didnt fair any better than those which were left entire.

[Aetherglow]

My old family dog, who was kept entire until she had a litter on breeder's terms, had two seasons. She was mated and had a litter on the second (approximately 20 months old), and got pyometra when the pups were 4-5 weeks old. Treated with antibiotics until settled, spayed before her next season.

My father had a desexed male dog, an adult rescue, which developed mammary cancer which eventually killed him several years down the track. Not sure if that's the info you're looking for, though!

Eta: My current entire girl is about to turn three, is due to have her fifth season within a month or so, had a litter on her last season. No problems so far.

Edited March 2, 2013 by LappieHappy

[julesluvscavs]

Theres no way i will be taking any chances with my female puppy since she will be purely a pet and not used for breeding. Im hoping to get her done around 5-6 months old. Also it is part of her breeders contract :)

[Mim]

Out of 4 females I have had two with pyometra. It scares me now and even though I want to show I think I'll only show males because I don't want to go through pyo again.

[pebbles]

In my 50+ years of having show dogs and bitches, never desexed any, ( tried to add them up but I'd have to find my old records,) fortunately I've never had pyo, testicular cancer or tumours, incontinence in either sex all living to a good old age. I have now one of each sex, both entire.

:crossfingers:

[LizT]

Out of 4 females I have had two with pyometra. It scares me now and even though I want to show I think I'll only show males because I don't want to go through pyo again.

In my 50+ years of having show dogs and bitches, never desexed any, ( tried to add them up but I'd have to find my old records,) fortunately I've never had pyo, testicular cancer or tumours, incontinence in either sex all living to a good old age. I have now one of each sex, both entire.

:crossfingers:

Two examples poles apart. And I think that's the thing isn't it. If we have been affected by something we are "once bitten, twice shy", however, if it has never been an issue it becomes a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I have heard of "stump pyometra" in desexed bitches. So it can also depends on the type of spaying done. Also an interesting point. Most literature talks of Pyometra occurring approximately 8 weeks after a heat cycle. But I have heard of cases of it happening during a heat cycle, and also post natally. Again, if your dog seems off colour, take her to a vet for a check up. Better always to catch these things early.