Can Some Dogs Just Be Mean?

[BJean]

So me and the housemate were watching on the news the other day about the two dogs attacking a jogger and then we started talking whether it was the owner's fault. He reckons its unfair to blame the owner because sometimes dogs can be just mean. He then was telling me about his friend who has two cattle dogs and even though the guy has never done anything to the dogs, the dogs have tried to bite him before. I never got the chance to say if it wasnt the owners fault then why were the dogs lose in the first place but by then the argument was getting a bit heated so I left it :laugh:

No some owners are just daft and removed from the world around them, and do not realise that dogs are not mean,

they just hold no need to respect the owner.

Nothing complicated, simple animal outlook.

[OSoSwift]

American Bulldogs are not ANKC registered. It does not mean they do not exist.

Edited May 30, 2013 by OSoSwift

[inez]

American Bulldogs are not ANKC registered. It does not mean they do not exist.

the german coolie has been here for 200 years now.

at least when we look at a coolie we know what it is until we run into an Australian Shepherd. but at least they not only look very alike are even the same size.

Although I saw an identical twin to those dogs involved in the liverpool attack not that long ago and his owner thinks hes an english staffy? that grew incredibly tall? You could stack two and half english staffies just about, to reach his shoulder height.

wonder what his dog really is, APB, Amstaff or Ambulldog? whats the differences? besides starting with A?

good old google

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/american-bulldog-types.html

“This makes the standard type American bulldog very agile and structurally sound. They have a very strong prey drive and can be dog aggressive, which is exactly what American Bulldogs needed 300 years ago to protect the farm from wolves and coyotes, and to do catch work.”

just what we need to keep undesirables out of our property today.

Maybe what we need to do is make it mandatory everyone should to wear "I am not a coyote, a dog, or a wolf" prominantly in future. They were only doing what they are bred for.

Although is this really necessary 300 years later?

Edited May 30, 2013 by inez

[Kirislin]

There were three dogs, and they were American Bulldogs.

Yes I'm sure there are some dogs that are just bad natured due to their genetics, but I think the majority have bad temperaments due to the way they are raised and managed.

I just checked the puppy listings

Affenpinscher Puppies (3)

Afghan Hound Puppies (3)

Airedale Terrier Puppies (2)

Akita Puppies (9)

Akita (Japanese) Puppies (0)

Alaskan Malamute Puppies (8)

American Staffordshire Terrier Puppies (20)

Anatolian Shepherd Dog Puppies (2)

Australian Cattle Dog Puppies (16)

Australian Kelpie Puppies (5)

Australian Shepherd Puppies (16)

Australian Silky Terrier Puppies (5)

Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog Puppies (5)

Australian Terrier Puppies (8)

Azawakh Puppies (0)

Where? do you find an American bulldog? Just to be absolutely sure I phoned there are no such breed in australia

or is it the new term for an even taller APB?

They're definitely around, the president of the club used to live in my town. I dont know if he's still here but I looked up the club page this morning. It looks a bit dated now so not sure what is happening with it. I found some of the pigging photos quite disturbing as they looked like they might have been attacking the pigs in an enclosed area, I could see a mesh fence just behind the pig, although I couldn't be 100% sure if there was an escape for the pig.

[Dame Aussie]

Dogs don't have any morals so I think "mean" is probably a bad way of wording it. Are some dogs genetically predisposed to aggression or more likely to express aggression due to poor socialisation? Probably.

Yes, mean is a human word/description, dogs aren't mean.

[Dame Aussie]

Bull Terriers do not "lock on" its a myth, just because they have a higher threshold does not mean their jaws lock, get it right

Thank you, you stopped me from having to respond to this.

Also, I agree completely with Wobbly's post.

[melzawelza]

What makes a dog dangerous to people is a combination of genetics, socialisation (or lack of it) and environment

Here's what Karen Delise (author of Fatal Dog Attacks) has to say on the issue:

Today's media is filled with sensational headlines of dog attacks. Routinely quoted in these newspaper accounts are dated statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. The last CDC study released documented which breeds of dogs caused the most human fatalities from 1979 through 1998. While the CDC did an admirable job of studying fatal dog attacks, and went to great lengths to point out that irresponsible owners were the cause of most of these incidents, the media and lawmakers continue to use CDC statistics to substantiate claims that certain breeds of dogs are inherently more "vicious" than other breeds.

After reviewing over 431 cases of fatal dog attacks it is apparent there is no single factor that translates in a lethal encounter between a person and a dog(s). A fatal dog attack is always the culmination of past and present events that include: inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, socialization, function of the dog, physical condition and size of the dog, reproductive status of dog, popularity of breed, individual temperament, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, victim size and physical condition, timing and misfortune.

While many circumstances may contribute to a fatal dog attack, the following three factors appear to play a critical role in the display of

canine aggression towards humans;

Function of the dog - (Includes: dogs acquired for fighting, guarding/protection or image enhancement)

Owner responsibility - (Includes: dogs allowed to roam loose, chained dogs, dogs and/or children left unsupervised, dogs permitted or encouraged to behave

aggressively, animal neglect and/or abuse)

Reproductive status of dog - (Includes: unaltered males dogs, bitches with puppies, children coming between male dog and female dog in estrus)

It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally rare event, yet many communities and cities believe that the solution to prevent severe and fatal dog attacks is to label, restrict or ban certain breeds of dogs as potentially dangerous. If the breed of dog was the primary or sole determining factor in a fatal dog attack, it would necessarily stand to reason that since there are literally millions of Rottweilers, Pit Bulls and German Shepherd Dogs in the United States, there would have to be countless more than an approximate 20-25 human fatalities per year. Since only an infinitesimal number of any breed is implicated in a human fatality, it is not only unreasonable to characterize this as a specific breed behavior by which judge an entire population of dogs, it also does little to prevent fatal or severe dog attacks as the real causes and events that contribute to a fatal attack are masked by the issue of breed and not seriously addressed.

From 1965 - 2001, there have been at least 36 different breeds/types of dog that have been involved in a fatal attack in the United States. (This number rises to at least 52 breeds/types when surveying fatal attacks worldwide). We are increasingly becoming a society that has less and less tolerance and understanding of natural canine behaviors. Breed specific behaviors that have been respected and selected for over the centuries are now often viewed as unnatural or dangerous. Dogs have throughout the centuries served as protectors and guardians of our property, possessions and families. Dogs have also been used for thousands of years to track, chase and hunt both large and small animals. These natural and selected-for canine behaviors seem to now eliciting fear, shock and a sense of distrust among many people.

There seems to be an ever growing expectation of a "behaviorally homogenized" dog - "Benji" in the shape of a Rottweiler. Breeds of dogs with greater protection instincts or an elevated prey-drive are often unfairly viewed as "aggressive or dangerous". No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. [The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

If you have a "mean" dog then it is your responsibility to keep it under complete control. "Accidents happen" simply isn't good enough.

Ahh sense. Thanks Haredown!

Genetics absolutely have an influence. But don't confuse genetics with breed. This is to do with the individual dog and it's individual parents/grandparents. Each dog is an individual, even dogs within a purebred circle. When you then add dogs without pedigree papers who's history is unknown, 'breed' becomes even more of a silly construct when trying to predict behaviour, especially aggression.

[icedmice]

There are two white American Bulldogs at Campbelltown pound currently.

They definitely exist and growing in popularity rapidly particularly among less reputable owners.

There are quite a few out there that have been crossed with other bully types too, no doubt by bogans who want a mean looking dog.

[megan_]

Just because a breed isn't recognised by the ANKC doesn't mean the breed doesn't exist. That is like saying Murray River retrievers (sorry, I don't remember the correct name) don't exist.

Either way, the owner is responsible, even if the dogs had very aggressive tendencies. You either house the dogs appropriately (locks on all gates, concrete trench to avoid digging, high walls, 2 gate systems to one slip up doesn't = near death for a person) or you PTS.

If you own powerful dogs capable of killing a person, you need to be very, very careful how you manage them.

[staffydave]

So the majority of people who own american bulldogs are less then reputable people and are bogans generalise much

Edited May 30, 2013 by staffydave

[Agility Dogs]

If you own powerful dogs capable of killing a person, you need to be very, very careful how you manage them.

If you own dogs capable of killing anything (and I do - see the picture) you need to be careful how you manage them........

Maybe not mean, but some dogs do have more of a predisposition to aggression than others.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Agility Dogs

[Dame Aussie]

So the majority of people who own american bulldogs are less then reputable people and are bogans generalise much

Anyone who likes bull breeds or has a bull breed is a bogan, didn't you know?!

[tdierikx]

Dare you to call me a bogan in front of my 2 bull breed dogs... the Labrador will probably bite you for it though.... lol!

T.

[Kirislin]

sometimes I think one of my whippets can be sort of mean and spiteful to his brother, but I suppose it's me putting human behaviours on something he does that he's worked out gets him what he wants.

[icedmice]

So the majority of people who own american bulldogs are less then reputable people and are bogans generalise much

I commented "particularly", perhaps "notably" would have been a better word. Meaning a growing proportion of..people that own them are less than reputable.

Never said ALL.

I've seen more American Bulldogs in pound than should be there.

A lot of people that own American Bulldogs are doing the breed no favors.

The term bogans was used to refer to crossing breeds for a particular mean look and nothing more, and I stand by that generalization. Nobody with an ounce of common sense would do that.

I also own a staffy and there is nothing I despise more than people that own one to improve their tough guy image and breed them randomly.

Edited May 30, 2013 by icedmice

[icedmice]

Dare you to call me a bogan in front of my 2 bull breed dogs... the Labrador will probably bite you for it though.... lol!

T.

LOL :D .

I bet your lab would sooner savage a sausage.

[icedmice]

Anyone who likes bull breeds or has a bull breed is a bogan, didn't you know?!

OOPS, called myself a bogan ROFL.

Edited May 30, 2013 by icedmice

[wings]

The majority of the time "mean" or "nasty" animals are made that way, but I do believe that on occasion, in fairly rare circumstances, you will find an animal who just isn't right.

Even saw it when I was breeding rabbits! A friend who regularly produced the most smoochy, wonderful babies had one that from the start was trying to be the rabbit from Monty Python's Holy Grail.

Perhaps there was an underlying condition that caused it, perhaps his brain was just wired wrong but he was pts as he had no place in this world.

[tdierikx]

Dare you to call me a bogan in front of my 2 bull breed dogs... the Labrador will probably bite you for it though.... lol!

T.

LOL :D .

I bet your lab would sooner savage a sausage.

Actually - she has savaged my Pittie cross girl a couple of times... we keep them separate now, as we know that the Lab is most likely going to be the victor when they scrap.

But, as for the sausages... well... she's a Labrahoover, what else should we expect? *grin*

T.

[Staffyluv]

American Bulldogs are not ANKC registered. It does not mean they do not exist.

the german coolie has been here for 200 years now.

at least when we look at a coolie we know what it is until we run into an Australian Shepherd. but at least they not only look very alike are even the same size.

Although I saw an identical twin to those dogs involved in the liverpool attack not that long ago and his owner thinks hes an english staffy? that grew incredibly tall? You could stack two and half english staffies just about, to reach his shoulder height.

wonder what his dog really is, APB, Amstaff or Ambulldog? whats the differences? besides starting with A?

good old google

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/american-bulldog-types.html

“This makes the standard type American bulldog very agile and structurally sound. They have a very strong prey drive and can be dog aggressive, which is exactly what American Bulldogs needed 300 years ago to protect the farm from wolves and coyotes, and to do catch work.”

just what we need to keep undesirables out of our property today.

Maybe what we need to do is make it mandatory everyone should to wear "I am not a coyote, a dog, or a wolf" prominantly in future. They were only doing what they are bred for.

Although is this really necessary 300 years later?

For inez,

American Bulldog

american bulldog by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

Pit Bull

pit bull by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

Bull Terrier

bull terrier by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

American Staffordshire Terrier (Amstaff)

American Staffordshire Terrier by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Staffy/SBT)

Staffordshire-Bull-Terrier by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

To me they are all quite different but I suppose if you were not into bull breeds, you might confuse a couple of them..