Dry Food / Kibble

[FANG]

I have two Boxers and two cats. I have recently been investigating various kibbles since discovering that the Nutro dry food I've been feeding Tyson has sunflower oil in it. After reading one of David Gillespie's books, I've become aware that scientific research indicates that polyunsaturated seed oils cause cancer and heart disease in humans. I assume it would be the same story with dogs, and since I know Boxers are prone to cancer, I am very concerned by this. It turns out that most dry foods contain either soya oil, canola oil or sunflower oil, which is a real worry.

I have also read through this website: www.dogfoodproject.com . I am not entirely sure if the information is trustworthy, but it seems to be. Most of the kibbles that don't contain polyunsaturated seed oils seem to fail based on the website's recommendations of what to look for. The only kibble that passes is Eaglepack, but I am concerned that one contains inulin and the other contains yucca schidigera extract. Inulin is a fructan, which essentially has the same effect on the body as fructose (the part of sugar that cause heart disease, diabetes, dementia, obesity, cirrhosis of the liver, kidney disease, and most of the other lifestyle diseases we're faced with in the western world). Yucca is a plant that is poisonous. Obviously the poison is in the dose, and the yucca schidigera extract used in many dog foods clearly doesn't have any immediate toxic effect, but I am a bit worried about what the long term effects might be.

I am now really unsure what to feed my dogs and cats, as I really don't have the time or money to feed them BARF. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

[moosepup]

I feed mostly BARF (it makes up about 90% of their diet) but I do give the dogs a small amount of dry in the morning. I feed Artemis and it doesn't have any of the ingredients you mention.

Good luck in your search!

[persephone]

You don't need a lot of time or money to feed raw , IMO, it need not be a science project :)

A variety of meats/bone/offal , and in the case of dogs, a small amount of veg, plus eggs, yoghurt and some cereal if you want .

[Rosetta]

I have two Boxers and two cats. I have recently been investigating various kibbles since discovering that the Nutro dry food I've been feeding Tyson has sunflower oil in it. After reading one of David Gillespie's books, I've become aware that scientific research indicates that polyunsaturated seed oils cause cancer and heart disease in humans. I assume it would be the same story with dogs, and since I know Boxers are prone to cancer, I am very concerned by this. It turns out that most dry foods contain either soya oil, canola oil or sunflower oil, which is a real worry.

I have also read through this website: www.dogfoodproject.com . I am not entirely sure if the information is trustworthy, but it seems to be. Most of the kibbles that don't contain polyunsaturated seed oils seem to fail based on the website's recommendations of what to look for. The only kibble that passes is Eaglepack, but I am concerned that one contains inulin and the other contains yucca schidigera extract. Inulin is a fructan, which essentially has the same effect on the body as fructose (the part of sugar that cause heart disease, diabetes, dementia, obesity, cirrhosis of the liver, kidney disease, and most of the other lifestyle diseases we're faced with in the western world). Yucca is a plant that is poisonous. Obviously the poison is in the dose, and the yucca schidigera extract used in many dog foods clearly doesn't have any immediate toxic effect, but I am a bit worried about what the long term effects might be.

I am now really unsure what to feed my dogs and cats, as I really don't have the time or money to feed them BARF. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Really? Thats interesting.

I have given up on kibble altogether. I came to the conclusion that feeding the dog does not have to be that complicated. I feed cooked meat or chicken with added veges such as sweet potato and pumpkin. Salmon and/or sardines and egg a few times a week. Lactose free milk occasionally because he likes it. I am looking at a vitamin/mineral supplement to add as well. Others will not agree with this but at least I know what he is eating and he likes it a lot better than dry kibble.

[Kavik]

At the moment, all of my dogs are being fed different food! What a nightmare!

Diesel is on a homemade raw diet, with no bones because he had his spleen removed and stomach tacked. I find that it is time consuming, having to portion overything out and make the vegies and rice etc.

Kaos is on Advance (also gets chicken wings), Nitro is on Advance puppy, Zoe has just been diagnosed with failing kidneys so is on a special renal dry food.

[sheena]

Have you had a look at the new Australian Black Hawk, Fish & Potato (sweet potato)

Fish & Potato Adult Dog - NEW

Ingredients:

Anchovy & Ocean Fish Meal, Salmon Meal, Sweet Potato, Ground Whole Brown Rice, Fish Oil (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols, source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract), Oat Groats, Field Peas, Natural Fish Flavour, Emu Oil, Poultry Oil, Whole Linseed, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulphate, Inulin, Carrots, Blueberries, Dandelion, Peppermint, Dried Rosemary, Tomato Powder, Dicalcium Phosphate, Egg Powder, Potassium Chloride, Yucca Schidegera Extract, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Sulphate, Vitamin A-Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Sulphate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate.

[persephone]

The OP doesn't want to use Yucca?

[persephone]

polyunsaturated seed oils cause cancer and heart disease in humans.

may I be so bold as to suggest that the AMOUNT and the carriers of oils may have a lot to do with it ?

Someone who uses small amounts of these oils on salads, or to quickly cook meats , and someone who eats deep fried foods, baked pastries ...Hmmm now which one of those may be ingesting too much /rancid/chemically changed oils and risking their health??

[Diva]

The OP doesn't want to use Yucca?

nor do they want to use inulin, both are in that BH.

[sheena]

If what the OP claims is true, then there must be an awful lot of sick dogs out there. I Googled Yucca Extract & couldn't find one claim against, it. Why would manufacturers put Yucca Extract & Inulin in their food if it is going to poison our dogs?? I cannot understand, why, if the OP is so paranoid about things in dry dog food, why she doesn't just feed RAW Lots of people have differing opinions on these things, so to be sure...why not just feed Raw. It doesn't make sense that she doesn't have the time to feed raw & it certainly doesn't have to be expensive, compared to premium brand dry.

ETA...if I lived in Tassie like the OP does I would be feeding road kills, as there is no lack of them down there....a good source of fresh free meat. :)

Edited July 1, 2013 by sheena

[Rosetta]

Have you had a look at the new Australian Black Hawk, Fish & Potato (sweet potato)

Fish & Potato Adult Dog - NEW

Ingredients:

Anchovy & Ocean Fish Meal, Salmon Meal, Sweet Potato, Ground Whole Brown Rice, Fish Oil (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols, source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract), Oat Groats, Field Peas, Natural Fish Flavour, Emu Oil, Poultry Oil, Whole Linseed, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulphate, Inulin, Carrots, Blueberries, Dandelion, Peppermint, Dried Rosemary, Tomato Powder, Dicalcium Phosphate, Egg Powder, Potassium Chloride, Yucca Schidegera Extract, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Sulphate, Vitamin A-Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Sulphate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate.

Actually that product looks pretty good....nooo, don't tempt me to try yet another kibble :D

[Salukifan]

Really? Thats interesting.

I have given up on kibble altogether. I came to the conclusion that feeding the dog does not have to be that complicated. I feed cooked meat or chicken with added veges such as sweet potato and pumpkin. Salmon and/or sardines and egg a few times a week. Lactose free milk occasionally because he likes it. I am looking at a vitamin/mineral supplement to add as well. Others will not agree with this but at least I know what he is eating and he likes it a lot better than dry kibble.

Where is the calcium source in this diet This might be fine for an adult dog but not for a pup. Add RMBs and you've solved it though.

I've fed a full raw diet and now a mixed diet of kibble and RMBs.

What your dog likes may decide what you feed in the end. One of my Whippets refused point blank to eat my BARF mix. He refused point blank to eat most of the premium kibbles I tried him on. He likes Royal Canin - so that's what I feed.

And interestingly, the toy poodle that had regular anal gland issues on a fully raw diet has none on a mixed diet. In her case, cereal fibre appears to have solved the problem.

[persephone]

anal gland issues on a fully raw diet

Our dogs/cats get some of whatever outer covering their fresh food wears .. fur etc ..it works well !

[Dogsfevr]

Feed dry for over 30 yrs all dogs live a very healthy long life.

We deal with alot of dogs in the kennels who are diabetics & it isn't due to the dry but all the crap people feed.Schmackos,pigs ears & the list goes on

The current fad we are seeing is people feeding barf but most have no clue what it is ,The buy the cheap stuff.the dogs are severely underweight & so unhealthy looking .

There isn't a cheats version but it isn't hard to do it right.

The problem is these same people then feed treats that totally counteract the point of barf ^ they don't get it

I tried it on one of my dogs & it was a total disaster & wouldn't feed it again unless it suited .

.

The best for me is what suits that dog & what one feeds as a whole package .

People should feed what suits each dog & sometimes it may be something that goes against your ideals.

I now die hard barf feeders whose dogs are always sick so im not a believer in it being the best .

Yes there are food to avoid or feed in minimal amounts

[ktn]

After trialling various dry food, including super premium brands, I realised that it still depends on the dog. Mine had allergies or did not like the good stuff (works out well for my budget in the end), so it's worth trying it out yourself and experiment first hand. I won't get too paranoid with single specific ingredients or nutrient, just look at the diet as a whole. And there are other joys with cooking for the furies occasionally and watching them enjoy raw bones.

[alpha bet]

There is a thread on here about the Vets All Natural Diet. They also have a website which has loads of information and ideas.

This is a cost efficient way to feed and offers much the same as what BARF does but is less expensive as not packaged in the easy container system - VAN is a similar price to using dry food.

[Rosetta]

Really? Thats interesting.

I have given up on kibble altogether. I came to the conclusion that feeding the dog does not have to be that complicated. I feed cooked meat or chicken with added veges such as sweet potato and pumpkin. Salmon and/or sardines and egg a few times a week. Lactose free milk occasionally because he likes it. I am looking at a vitamin/mineral supplement to add as well. Others will not agree with this but at least I know what he is eating and he likes it a lot better than dry kibble.

Where is the calcium source in this diet This might be fine for an adult dog but not for a pup. Add RMBs and you've solved it though.

I've fed a full raw diet and now a mixed diet of kibble and RMBs.

What your dog likes may decide what you feed in the end. One of my Whippets refused point blank to eat my BARF mix. He refused point blank to eat most of the premium kibbles I tried him on. He likes Royal Canin - so that's what I feed.

And interestingly, the toy poodle that had regular anal gland issues on a fully raw diet has none on a mixed diet. In her case, cereal fibre appears to have solved the problem.

I don't have a pup I was just saying what I feed my dog - not suggesting that it is suitable for the OPs dog.

[Phyria]

polyunsaturated seed oils cause cancer and heart disease in humans.

may I be so bold as to suggest that the AMOUNT and the carriers of oils may have a lot to do with it ?

Someone who uses small amounts of these oils on salads, or to quickly cook meats , and someone who eats deep fried foods, baked pastries ...Hmmm now which one of those may be ingesting too much /rancid/chemically changed oils and risking their health??

THIS.

Just like with us it's not just about WHAT you eat but how much and how it's delivered.

I don't have a dog yet, but I do have a cat.

She only likes Purina Supercoat, and will only eat the chicken flavoured indoor formula. I've lost count of the amount of dry cat food I've given to my friend for her less-fussy cats.

She also won't eat raw meat, she wont even eat cooked chicken that I'm eating. But open a tin of cat food and she's all over that!

My point here is that animals can be just as fussy as us when it comes to food, some only like dry food. I guess all we can do is try to supplement their diets so they get all the nutrients they need.

So long as their diet keeps them healthy and happy then it's okay with me :)

[FANG]

I feed mostly BARF (it makes up about 90% of their diet) but I do give the dogs a small amount of dry in the morning. I feed Artemis and it doesn't have any of the ingredients you mention.

Good luck in your search!

Thank you, Artemis looks like it has good ingredients! It seems to have a lot in common with Eaglepack Holistic and Canidae though, which didn't agree with Tyson's stomach so well. And it's not available in Tasmania, but I will enquire about having it shipped!

You don't need a lot of time or money to feed raw , IMO, it need not be a science project :)

A variety of meats/bone/offal , and in the case of dogs, a small amount of veg, plus eggs, yoghurt and some cereal if you want .

The breeder of my dogs said that one should add heaps of vitamins and minerals and stuff to ensure their diet is balanced, and that it does end up being really time consuming and expensive. I don't have time to cook for myself, so I also don't have time to cook for my dogs. I am always burning the candle at both ends, as it is.

I've become aware that scientific research indicates that polyunsaturated seed oils cause cancer and heart disease in humans.

Really? Thats interesting.

If you want more details, check out Toxic Oil by David Gillespie.

polyunsaturated seed oils cause cancer and heart disease in humans.

may I be so bold as to suggest that the AMOUNT and the carriers of oils may have a lot to do with it ?

Someone who uses small amounts of these oils on salads, or to quickly cook meats , and someone who eats deep fried foods, baked pastries ...Hmmm now which one of those may be ingesting too much /rancid/chemically changed oils and risking their health??

The scientific research has taken these things into account, and the results of these studies indicate that saturated fat is not the cause of heart disease; polyunsaturated fat and sugar is.

If what the OP claims is true, then there must be an awful lot of sick dogs out there. I Googled Yucca Extract & couldn't find one claim against, it. Why would manufacturers put Yucca Extract & Inulin in their food if it is going to poison our dogs?? I cannot understand, why, if the OP is so paranoid about things in dry dog food, why she doesn't just feed RAW Lots of people have differing opinions on these things, so to be sure...why not just feed Raw. It doesn't make sense that she doesn't have the time to feed raw & it certainly doesn't have to be expensive, compared to premium brand dry.

ETA...if I lived in Tassie like the OP does I would be feeding road kills, as there is no lack of them down there....a good source of fresh free meat. :)

http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/poison-control/Plants/yucca.aspx

Yucca is meant to make animals' faeces smell less foul, that's why.

http://sweetpoison.wikidot.com/inulin

Let me put it to you that sugar and polyunsaturated oils have been added to human foods for over 100 years because they taste good and they are cheap. They do not kill humans immediately; the process is very gradual. Now, consider that there are preservatives and meat products added to some dog foods that are banned from human consumption (such as Menadione Sodium Bisulfate). If you put a minute amount of bleach in someone's food every day, it'll take a long time for them to get sick, but they will get sick eventually.

Feed dry for over 30 yrs all dogs live a very healthy long life.

We deal with alot of dogs in the kennels who are diabetics & it isn't due to the dry but all the crap people feed.Schmackos,pigs ears & the list goes on

The current fad we are seeing is people feeding barf but most have no clue what it is ,The buy the cheap stuff.the dogs are severely underweight & so unhealthy looking .

There isn't a cheats version but it isn't hard to do it right.

The problem is these same people then feed treats that totally counteract the point of barf ^ they don't get it

I tried it on one of my dogs & it was a total disaster & wouldn't feed it again unless it suited .

.

The best for me is what suits that dog & what one feeds as a whole package .

People should feed what suits each dog & sometimes it may be something that goes against your ideals.

I now die hard barf feeders whose dogs are always sick so im not a believer in it being the best .

Yes there are food to avoid or feed in minimal amounts

What's wrong with pigs' ears?

I just wonder if the average lifespan of dogs could be increased if we perfected their diet...

[persephone]

The breeder of my dogs said that one should add heaps of vitamins and minerals and stuff to ensure their diet is balanced, and that it does end up being really time consuming and expensive

:) perhaps if the person fed a variety of good wholesome raw food they wouldn't need to prepare/pay for extras ? Just about all the things dogs need are present in a diet which has plenty of variety over time

I cannot understand, why, if the OP is so paranoid about things in dry dog food, why she doesn't just feed RAW Lots of people have differing opinions on these things, so to be sure...why not just feed Raw. It doesn't make sense that she doesn't have the time to feed raw & it certainly doesn't have to be expensive, compared to premium brand dry.

agreed.