BlackJaq Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) I just wanted to ask the brain trust on DOL for their opinion on a non event at obedience yesterday :) My dog, an adult 3 year old Weimaraner, does not particularly like puppies and will generally ignore. In line to sign in for the class she was sitting beside me when a puppy (maybe around 5-6 months old) very rudely approached and went to jump on her. Puppy did not actually make much contact as far as I could see (I only saw from the corner of my eye), since the owner yanked back on the leash, but my girl responded with a snarl and a warning snap (by this time I was definitely looking and everybody agreed no contact has been made). I chose not to correct my dog as I felt she behaved appropriately by warning the pup to back off but not actually hurting it. One of the instructors then came over and decided to stand over her and just kind of firmly tell her "NO" several times. I doubt by this point she knew what she was being "corrected" for and either way, I also doubt she would recognize this kind of interaction from a stranger as a correction, especially when I am holding the leash, i.e. clearly I am in control. She was obviously a bit uncomfortable with the instructor and gave calming signals (squatted a bit with ears back and moved closer to me, then ignored him like the deal was over for her). Anyway, since the guy was an instructor I did not want to make a scene, but I definitely want to know if I should have corrected in these circumstances? Do you allow normal dog interactions like this or do you insist your dog stays neutral to interactions from other dogs when he or she is on leash? I thought this was a great opportunity for me to learn something, either way :) Edited November 28, 2013 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 My girl also is not interested in puppies and ignores them as a first approach. If they jump all over her she will do exactly as your dog did and I also do not correct her - her behaviour is totally appropriate and the pup needs to learn that jumping on a strange dog's head is unacceptable. In fact, I think she's quite good for puppies for this reason - she doesn't tolerate any crap from them! But she has never hurt another dog and is never over the top with her correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 As a general rule, no. Correcting her will not change her view on puppies - she'll just learn to hide her warning snap/growl and go straight for an attack. I would focus on building a neutral view of puppies instead. When puppies are in view = good things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I have a dog who is not keen on rude or forward dogs/puppies approaching. I keep a sharp eye out and if I see one approaching I move my dog so that they don't meet, use a body block etc, though owners of forward greeting dogs do not always get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) I've been in this situation quite a few times with my girl and although no I don't correct her i also don't want her taking initiative to tell off other dogs because IME it escalates situations that don't need to be escalated. If she gets tense I tend to move backward saying her name then we do some tricks or heeling exercises. The picture I want out of the scenario is for her to focus on me and let me keep her safe. Correcting her wouldn't help me achieve that picture. I really have a personal dislike of instructors handling and correcting other people's dogs without permission. I was at a training class earlier in the year when a dog got away and did zoomies around the grounds and an instructor finally caught the dog, took the dog back to the owner, and THEN hit the dog twice yelling "No" Effing useless. Edited November 28, 2013 by TheLBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) There's no way I'd correct for that. As Megan said it will just teach her not to give warning signs. A snap that doesn't connect is still just a warning. Also she could misinterpret and think that puppies around make you feel quite cross, and thus confirming to her that puppies are a problem. Edited November 28, 2013 by raineth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I've been in this situation quite a few times with my girl and although no I don't correct her i also don't want her taking initiative to tell off other dogs because IME it escalates situations that don't need to be escalated. If she gets tense I tend to move backward saying her name then we do some tricks or heeling exercises. The picture I want out of the scenario is for her to focus on me and let me keep her safe. Correcting her wouldn't help me achieve that picture. This is what I do as well :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I've been in this situation quite a few times with my girl and although no I don't correct her i also don't want her taking initiative to tell off other dogs because IME it escalates situations that don't need to be escalated. If she gets tense I tend to move backward saying her name then we do some tricks or heeling exercises. The picture I want out of the scenario is for her to focus on me and let me keep her safe. Correcting her wouldn't help me achieve that picture. This is what I do as well :) And me. And I would certainly not be happy about an instructor (or anyone else) intervening in that circumstance, where there was no contact. I would probably be moving my own dog away, and saying to the puppy's owner something like "Please don't allow your puppy to come into another dog's space without invitation - it could get the puppy hurt." The people in my puppy class at club get the message loud and clear ... I advise them to do what they should also be teaching their kids to do - ask before making a close approach :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Shepherd mom Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Once upon a time I might have corrected (without going over the top about it) but now that Casper is an elderly dog with mobility problems I figure he's within his right to tell in-your-face dogs and puppies off. He is always on a leash and he WILL nip anything that comes that close. I would be annoyed if a trainer corrected my dog. He is there to train the owner to train the dog, he should not be correcting the dog. If he was not happy in your situation, he should have spoken to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) Excellent, I am happy that I have reacted well then. There was no problem that I could detect until the puppy initiated the "greeting" sequence. She was quite relaxed and had a look at which dogs were there as we have been to a few classes now and so she knows the regulars and some of them she is now friends with and therefore likes to look for them. There was no tension or issue afterwards and we passed the puppy several times with no incident. As I said, she generally ignores stuff when on lead, unless it actively seeks to interact with her. So far I given her relatively free rein since her reactions are appropriate (that is, she does not react badly to other dogs so I do not immediately move her away when another dog approaches, unless I feel that owner and dog would be a problem). When a dog comes charging at us then I obviously step in and make sure she feels secure in my ability to handle the situation. I have to admit that I saw this owner + puppy were behind us but the owner looked to be in control, I did not expect them to give the puppy enough leash to take a small run up and nearly reach my dog and then yank the puppy back.. I don't quite understand why they did this but I assume they were either not paying attention or they did not think they should inform me that they were planning an interaction between our dogs. Just to clarify, Foxy is not reactive to puppies or other dogs, she simply chooses not to interact and play with puppies under a certain age if she has a choice. I have not found this to be a problem so far, as long as all interactions are appropriate (i.e. giving warning for puppy to back off etc without immediately tearing puppy's head off) I was honestly a little iffed at the instructor but have not been to enough classes to know if this was normal and generally accepted behavior or what... I imagine that sort of thing might end badly if the dog being "corrected" took it badly (coming for a strange man and all that..) Edited November 28, 2013 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I wouldn't have had her with me in the scenario you describe knowing she has issues. Pups will try to play but as you now your dog has issues then i would be more aware of the position the dog has been placed in & it would seem this wasn't the best option or you need to be better prepared for "what ifs" or they did not think they should inform me that they were planning an interaction between our dogs. For me this comment works both ways if your dog may be one to do something then i would also consider it your responsibility to say something as well ,play the active role that will best suit your dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I wouldn't have had her with me in the scenario you describe knowing she has issues. Pups will try to play but as you now your dog has issues then i would be more aware of the position the dog has been placed in & it would seem this wasn't the best option or you need to be better prepared for "what ifs" or they did not think they should inform me that they were planning an interaction between our dogs. For me this comment works both ways if your dog may be one to do something then i would also consider it your responsibility to say something as well ,play the active role that will best suit your dog This. :) I have a dog that I would not have put in that situation until very recently. The other two couldn't care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Most obedience classes have rules relating to the interaction between dogs - ie. dogs must be under effective control when in close proximity to others The fact that your girl air snapped and told the puppy that she wasn't impressed by it's rudeness is NO excuse for a stranger (instructor or not) to tell your dog off in an intimidating fashion. Quite frankly, if it were my dog that the instructor decided to chastise, the instructor would have had to deal with some unsavoury behaviour from ME... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Why does a dog necessarily have issues if they correct a rude puppy in an appropriate way? My dog can run loose with puppies, be around them on lead etc and generally ignores. If they follow her around while off leash she ignores. If they jump on her head she will tell them off. Puppies need to learn while young what is appropriate behaviour with other dogs. I think dogs like mine and (it sounds like) Blackjaq's are a great lesson for puppies - not all dogs want to play with you, and if you persist with dogs trying to avoid you you will get told off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I would have told the instructor where to go. Dogs have the right to tell off another dog/ puppy when they behave inappropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) Ideally I'd have taken a copy of this article, smacked myself on the head for assuming any puppy owner understands about appropriate interaction between dogs and then inserted it up the instructors left nostril to assist with comprehension. I certainly wouldn't have allowed someone who clearly has bugger all idea about dog behaviour (as quite a few dog obedience trainers don't) to correct my dog for an appropriate response to a rude puppy. How rude! You NEVER correct another person's dog as far as I'm concerned unless it's behaviour is affecting you or your dog directly and only then if absolutely necessary to stop it. What exactly does "no!" mean to a dog anyway? Edited November 28, 2013 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Thank You guys :) Yes, as I said, my dog does not have "issues" with any other dogs. She simply has no interest in being a puppy chew toy. She would not raise an eyebrow at puppies walking past, being noisy next to her or whatever, but surely she does not need to accept physical punishment from them without complaint? That was my reasoning, anyway. I know a lot of people believe in the "puppy licence" or would like to, at least, but I think some dogs are simply more tolerant of babies than others. And some simply have no interest. I'm not quite sure why I should not have had my dog, who was perfectly under control, in line with me? She was not bothering anyone and she has no "issues" with dogs or puppies, she just doesn't accept inappropriate interactions from young dogs (she is more tolerant of adults). Foxy knows about "no" in a "stop that" sort of way so I guess if I was giving the "no" cue she might have had an inkling what I wanted, but if I needed to diffuse the situation I probably would have moved her away and done training to take her mind of things as suggested earlier but since she stayed perfectly calm and did not go over the top in her correction I felt no need to do this and she was fine with the puppy immediately after (as in, walking past and sitting next to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cali Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) I would have corrected, HOWEVER I have multiple dogs whom I walk all together, there are a lot of normal behaviors that I do not allow, ever, because if it happens while I have 6 medium/large dogs on leashes...I have a BIG problem. if anything like that happens I need by dogs to sit down and avoid conflict, "I" will take care of the problem. to clarify I am talking on leash only. off leash I do not inhibit anything unless its obviously overkill. Edited November 28, 2013 by cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I definitely wouldn't have corrected and I would have had a serious word to the instructor for correcting my dog without permission. To be honest I would be having a good think about whether that club was the right environment for my dog at all given the way the instructor reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfthewords Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) All of mine react appropriately to boisterous/rude dogs and puppies. Carl will growl and lift his lip, and if the hint isn't taken, he'll air snap. Mischa doesn't mess around and lets any rude dog know straight off the bat that she won't tolerate anything less than respect (for a 3kg creature, she's terrifying). Jag is a little more laid back, as he will generally remove himself from situations that make him uncomfortable before he reacts. :) I generally never reprimand them for telling off dogs with no manners. All of them are respectful to other dogs. In your situation OP, you definitely weren't wrong. Edited November 29, 2013 by halfthewords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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