persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Glad it's not me with a problem ..I would be petrified to leave a small dog 'on duty' at night .. so much to go wrong when they are in prey drive and not thinking of much else ... yes, I have seen it - my old mini foxie lost an eye chasing a rabbit down a burrow - she was staked ..and there have been other dogs, other injuries .. How does one train a ratter to dispatch cleanly and without getting itself injured? never having had rats ... I guess they can give a reasonable bite? Those who have ratters .. do the bites get infected more than other bites ? Do rats carry things other than fleas ? I once entertained teh thought of having a 'rat pack' .briefly entertained, and a long time ago ..... Blacjaq have you tried those zap traps? Someone here tried them with success from memory... they are quiet, and effective , and humane ..and work 24/7!! :) Plus the local raptors will LOVE the free meals . ratzapper Hmmm THESEare on special .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I've got Irish Terriers - and the last year in the old house, Duke killed about 20 mice - not counting birds, lizards and anything else that dared venture onto his territory! He often woke me up at 3 in the morning going thru furniture to get to the mice. Kate, my other IT will help with the tracking, but its Duke that does the killing. One headswipe and toss the body. Here at mum's its been more magpies and the odd rat (he's very pleased with himself over those, too). So far the cats around here have been a bit too quick to get back over the fence. I think that any of the terriers you try, you need to look for one with high prey drive. My first male IT - you'd hear him yelp as a mouse ran over the top of him! Mind, I wouldn't want to put Duke anywhere near chooks - that would be the very definition of self-serve for that boy! But a dog like Duke would be happy to be a day pet as long as you had a nice doggy door for him to go do his hunting at night. I currently kennel him at night otherwise he's out hunting cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 ratting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The JRT and most terriers would normally be obsessed with trying to get chickens etc. So many people have chickens now, when I do homechecks if they are looking at a JRT type I usually recommend they don't try and have both at the same time and that goes for cats too, many JRTs would kill a cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkes Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Our rescue just had a JRT X and a terrier X handed in for dispatching with both the family cats, a few chooks and lizards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I think though, that terriers would be much less inclined to kill the family chooks if they were on acreage , and had 'a job' ? We always had a terrier or two , and they killed lots of mice/rabbits , but never chooks or cats .... The lab killed kittens/cats ... and the border collies killed the chooks .... Edited February 1, 2014 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'd say that's really possible - before I got Duke, both Quin and Kate were ruled by the weero - and I mean totally ruled! Duke however, I have always thought that he'd started killing other creatures long before I ever got him as a wayward adolescent. His first owners were not particuarly forthcoming with information on him when they surrendered him to the queensland breeder. It's quite possible that if he'd been brought up with chooks, that he would consider them part of his territory. After all, they were originally irish farm dogs, so they must have been relatively safe with chooks and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I guess like dogs of any group there are quite different personalities. We've only really had Aussie Terriers and Poochie was as laid back as anything when it came to cats, birds, chickens etc. but put her with mice or lizards and she'd turn on her terrier ratting instincts. She wasn't fussed over rabbits either; in fact, my family found one on the vacant block next to us, put it in a box ready to take to the vet and Poochie chewed through the box and helped it escape. Kirah on the other hand, if it moves, she'll chase and want to eat it. Wild birds, mice, lizards, cats ... She'll chase anything and eat it. Regarding terriers being yappy dogs, I haven't found that to be true. Sure, a lot of them can be yappy, but if they're properly stimulated, again like any dog, barking shouldn't be a problem. Kirah does have a tendency to bark a bit more than Poochie did, but she's not as laid back as Poochie was and stays more alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 We had two terriers. JRT x Fox terrier. They were outside only dogs, but never barked unless every other dog in the neighbourhood was too. Towser was also an incredible 'snaker'. We lived in Northern NSW and the amount of snakes he despatched was legendary. We never trained or encouraged that behaviour, but he was incredibly good at his 'job' . I've heard of trainers or racing dogs, mushers etc. Using terriers in a sort of 'perimeter' fencing scenario to protect other dogs.. Sorry that was a bit off topic.. Would be interested in hearing if it works out for you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Hi guys :) Several points have been raised that I have already mentioned previously.. I do not want anymore cats, the current one is the last one ;) Also I find that the cat will only really bother to go catch something if he is hungry and then he will mostly go down the back to get a rabbit. He was from semi feral farm stock (and is neutered). I specifically wanted a dog instead of more cats, as I can at least confine the dog to a fenced in area and so wildlife outside this area is safe. A dog would also be a good day time companion for my OH (taking barn kitties to work would probably not work out that well). Rescue is definitely a good idea but I was hoping for a puppy from known stock as OH seems to bond easier to a puppy than an already grown adult. If rescue was the only option (or a suitable dog of whatever age came along) I would definitely consider it. I am not about to jump out and try to find a dog tomorrow, just looking into options at this point so I am glad for any breed or alternative mentioned. I have found snake skins around the place and they seem to have zero impact on the rodents. Neither does cat or fox scat. Breed does not have to be a Terrier (hence I was considering a Whippet or similar and asking questions in this direction) but Terriers are what was (and in some places still is) commonly used in this role, hence my asking about Terriers. I will certainly consider other breeds. I have had a German Coolie before and she was definitely not a ratter. High intensity herding dog, yes. But ratter, no, not unless you count staring rats down and trying to direct where they are going. I am hoping a Terrier (or similar small breed) won't be jumping quite as high as a Coolie since my girl would easily clear 8 ft fences. If necessary I would install rollers on a top wire on our fence to stop a Terrier jumping over but I would have thought chicken wire at 1.10m + smooth wire on top would be too high for most Terriers. I could be wrong. Adding chicken mesh on the bottom to stop digging (as you do with foxes) would not be a problem. The poultry area is set up to contain even small poultry (so all mesh is about chicken wire size and there is ballast under gates to ensure a snug fit). Sheds come off this area and are colourbond and mesh so a dog door would be installed and the dog should be unable to leave the shed except through the dog door. Are there other common means that a Terrier might escape? I'm sure plenty of people manage to keep in their Terriers but better safe than sorry! I don't think going to work with OH during the day would be overly exhausting, our other dogs simply sleep most of the day (especially in the vehicles) and occasionally walk from one area to another or whatever. It's not like they will be doing anything overly exciting all day long. Some exercise and play time would have to take place during the day to help distract the dog from any destructive urges but I am sure there will still be plenty of time to sleep more at night, there would have to be a LOT of rats to keep going non stop all night and besides, Terriers are generally fairly high energy as far as I know. I do already have a dog I use for gundog work, so I am hoping that similar training concepts would apply re. obedience, maybe some tricks and perhaps some basic retrieving. Obviously working underground would take extra training and I would certainly allow for this. Dogmad, would you generally not recommend a Terrier to somebody who has no previous Terrier experience or just not for a working home? With Dachies I would be concerned about back injury potential in show stock but have never had one so I have no direct experiences, only personal "prejudice" to go by. Persephone I am not sure how you do "not" leave a small dog "on duty" at night, short of crating it. Unfortunately there is always a risk in working dogs, especially when they are in "work mode" and accidents can happen at any time, day or night. Plenty of gundogs spear themselves of branches whilst hunting and I'm sure if the dogs could choose between being crated or "hunting" they would probably choose hunting. I seem to get a vibe that you do not approve of Terriers doing what Terriers do. Or is it only an issue at night? As I said, I already have a working gun dog who learnt to live with our poultry and other stock just fine despite high prey drive but regardless, the poultry are safely locked away at night when the dog would be in the area and during the day the dog is likely to be either not home (i.e. with OH at work) or in the house/houseyard, again without poultry. I guess the dog might decide that chickens look just delish and not let me dissuade it from trying to escape and eat them, in which case day time at home would be mostly inside time and most outdoor off leash time at home would be at night when poultry is not available for snackage. We have and do hunt and kill feral cats as well as foxes. I'm sure my cat will realize quickly that the dog means business, he is dog savvy and will not enter the kennel of the one cat unfriendly dog we have even when the dog is not in that kennel at the time (not the Wei btw). Again, I am hoping to find a peaceful resolution (involving training) just like we did with our Weimaraner but if not then we can work with that. I am not sure why anybody would get a Terrier and not expect it to kill stuff but I am hoping that a dog with a job, or several jobs, will be perhaps more satisfied with his life than a pet only dog and not feel the need to kill everything and anything within sight. It is good to read that some people have found a satisfied Terrier to not be yappy like the ones you see in a lot of back yards in town who never leave their little patch of dirt. I have made the experience with my Weimaraner, that a dog with a busy and interesting life is a lot less likely to fit the stereotype of the breed that many people have in their mind. Snakes are still a topic I feel concerned about.. I have had somebody tell me to lay bird netting along the perimeter of the fence to stop snakes entering an area.. Any idea if this works? Edited February 1, 2014 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I seem to get a vibe that you do not approve of Terriers doing what Terriers do. Or is it only an issue at night? :) I have owned a mini foxie , and a minfoxie X dachsie , both died at around 16 .. both were terrific hunters/watchdogs ,tough as nails- and one would also work sheep in the yards and on trucks . I love terriers ! We have been brought up that our dogs are confined/restrained at night , that's all ... as dogs are not equipped with the senses of cats , injury from an animal or something concerns me. Our Koolies are the hunters now :) I only have to whisper "mouse" ..and there is a rush ! I am not sure why anybody would get a Terrier and not expect it to kill stuff but I am hoping that a dog with a job, or several jobs, will be perhaps more satisfied with his life than a pet only dog and not feel the need to kill everything and anything within sight. Agree!! :) if a dog is socialised correctly .. it should only target that which it is meant to . Like your Gundog :D Our dogs kill feral cats ..and share beds with ours. It's not difficult ... as for snakes ... they climb, and compress their ribcages so they can fit thru very small spaces . They love sheds full of hay & rodents ..and where there are water sources . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Not sure why there is such emphasis on a terrier being harder to contain - mine have never attempted to escape and they are left alone in a backyard a lot as we work full time. Did you want a dog to go into burrows? If so Tenties aren't really meant for that hence the longer legs - more for chasing. Maybe a shorter legged breed would suit that if that's what you were after. I'm not sure why people seem to be trying to talk you out of having a terrier on a rural property ratting/mousing? That's what they are designed for! My dogs would love that opportunity. Would you also advise people not to put a Border Collie on sheep? Edited February 1, 2014 by pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 There aren't many of them in Oz, but ... surprise . .. rat terriers are pretty good ratters. My brother's two aren't that barky and they do a pretty good job keeping the barn rodent free. At night they prefer to be under the covers (in winter anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The overall issue for me is despite the instinct of the dog, it takes time and patience to train a good vermin hunter. That way you get the dog you want, so how much are you prepared to do? You obviously do a lot with your dogs and this would be one more thing. Nevermind the yappiness of a breed, you can train the dog not to bark while working. If you want a dog that doesn't sound yappy, I'd go the irish terrier (ours was once mistaken for a german shepherd!) but a breeder of any terrier should be able to tell you whether their hunting instincts have been breed out of them (if the breeder is honest!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion 01 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Failing all else, does your local council or anyone around your area have rat dogs, as in that I mean they keep a small pack of dogs especially trained for ratting and you can arrange to have them come out and clean out the rats from your sheds etc. Our local council used to have them, don't know if they still have. My best two mousers have passed on now, but one was a Bichon and the other was a Chinese Crested Powder Puff x Tibetan Terrier, and they worked as a team, the bichon would huff and puff at one end of the cupboard, and send it up the other end to the waiting one. They were both good quick clean killers. So they don't necessarily need to be a terrier type, it all depends on the individual dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wildthing Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Bird netting does work. I have seen a dead snake in it once with the netting pulled out flat to cover a vegetable garden. You can also get metal netting that is deemed to be snake proof from places like Bunnings (not sure if you have near you)It is initially expensive, but low maintenance. The other bird netting is very fine plastic and could be eaten by rats to make a hole to pass through. I know of a couple who have used the metal snake netting to good affect around an enclosed out side cat run on a rural property. If you shop around you could find the cheapest place, but living where you do, not sure how you could manage the delivery side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The overall issue for me is despite the instinct of the dog, it takes time and patience to train a good vermin hunter. That way you get the dog you want, so how much are you prepared to do? You obviously do a lot with your dogs and this would be one more thing. Nevermind the yappiness of a breed, you can train the dog not to bark while working. If you want a dog that doesn't sound yappy, I'd go the irish terrier (ours was once mistaken for a german shepherd!) but a breeder of any terrier should be able to tell you whether their hunting instincts have been breed out of them (if the breeder is honest!). Agree - it is all extra work and worry ... I'm lazy , and would go a "pack" of zapp traps ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Jagd Terriers look really interesting, and intense! Look like a real hunting dog, not a pet. Depending on what you want, might work. JRT is the other obvious choice, with some research I'm sure you could find one that would be good for hunting still. My old girl Zoe was a good ratter in her prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Our JRTx was a great mouser, we didn't have rats. Boy was he fast, he also got a couple of small birds. Kept up with the Kelpies at times!! He was an outside dog as he lost a huge amount of hair, so take that into consideration, he always had to go in the back of the ute when taken around the farm, Dad wouldn't have him in the cab! Not yappy at all. Never killed a chicken, he shared the house yard with the chooks and did so right from the moment we brought him home (6 weeks old back in the day). We got him from another farming family, so his 'lines' were from farming stock. He died when he was 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The German Pinscher were used as stable dogs and are very good ratters from my small amount of research. --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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