Dogsfevr Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Personally he doesn't sound aggressive just extremely frustrated at the direction & most likely the signals you are given. He obviously values his treats more than your spoken word. Saying "stop " means what ?? Nothing he isn't being asked to do an alternative or given direction Ask yourself why does he respect your husband ?? What does he do that you don't ?? He is never left alone apart from a few hours on the weekend Dogs need to learn to cope on there own ,shut the backdoor & encourage him to be independent not reliant on you .The backyard can be turned into a great mental game mindfield whole life seems to be revolving around the puppy at the moment Ofcourse it will your pup is a baby the effort you put in now is what your rewarded with in 12 months time ,owning a puppy isn't a part time job but you can make it harder or easier & most make it harder which in turns becomes even harder at 12 months the time you should in reality be enjoying the dog & the effort put in as a pup I have taken to walking him on lead and letting him run off leash at the beach for about two or so hours each day So his reward for being a naughty on lead is to get free range play at the beach & on his terms. Like others have said energy doesn't equate to walking & walking ,you have a large breed pup that over walked will play navoc on his joints something your breeder would have told you. All my large breed pups are taught from day one how to be calm & capable of switching off,for me its more important as a pup to foster calm behaviour ,They are also showdogs so are also taught how to switch on but there biggest role at home is family pet weekdays ,full on show ponies weekends & i have done obedience & agility at times . When they are trained for the ring they are hyped up fully ,i prefer to train them to be responsive when in crazy mode & rewarded for the right behaviour & find they are way more responsive as its fun for both . I use food,balls,squeaky toys anything BUT as there also pets they also now my voice is the ultimate tool I agree you need help in how to handle this dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Jane harper has a really good reputation. OT - but it sounds like your GSD is doing a lot of walking. This can cause all sorts of issues later on as the bones are still soft and forming . The GSD folk would be able to tell you if your current regime is overdoing it. As Kabul suggested , brain training will tire him out more. Clicker training it a good way to get them thinking. I personally wouldn't try any method - correction or otherwise - until seeing someone like Jane. I'd explain that the situation was urgent and you needed an appointment ASAP . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Great idea to get some professional help - it will give you the confidence to deal with a pup that sounds a bit frustrated. I can vouch for the fact that more exercise doesn't make it easier. I have a rescue boy and used to let him run for a couple of hours a day and I got the point, where I couldn't wear him out. A meeting with a local behaviourist and she explained that all I was doing was creating a very fit dog who wanted more exercise. Zig now gets about half an hour a day plus about 4 or 5 training sessions (I work from home). The training sessions are short, maybe a minute or two each. A heeling session, a focus session etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoonyLuna Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) As the owner of a 6 month GSD girl I can vouch for mental activity being a great way to tire her out. Obedience class on Sunday morning gives us a lovely quiet afternoon with a snoozy puppy. My girl loves to smell things, so during the week a 15 or 20 minute walk through a dog friendly nature trail gives her heaps of new things to sniff out and takes the edge off her energy. Good luck with your boy! Edited August 27, 2014 by LoonyLuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterbanns Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 UPDATE Thank you to all for your responses and invaluable information. We have FINALLY managed to engage a trainer. I do live in Queensland, but regionally. I have left messages and sent emails with as much detailed information as possible and no one but one has responded. Unfortunately, like all reputable trainers she is very busy and we will have to wait a week or so to see her but at least help is on the way. Her initial feelings from the information I have given her is quite interesting but sobering. Anyway, she wont get a firm idea until she meets us all next week and her work can commence. In the meantime, the aggression comes and goes - mainly in the morning and evening but during the day he is fine. I am noticing that he is getting a lot more jumpy than usual. Anyway, we will keep trying to keep him calm until help arrives. BTW, in answer to a previous post recommending that we don't exercise him too much, the 'walks' we do, are really just strolls with lost of 'stopping to smell the roses' so to speak and to get used to different things like pushbikes, children, other people, boats, kyaks, jet skis and pelicans going past not to mention the odd blue tong lizard - there is no hard exercise. I could not deny him, he really loves these outings too much and it is the one time of day when we really enjoy each other's company :) We do play 'mind' games out in the backyard and verandah along with ball games etc. I just wish he could talk human speak or I could thoroughly understand dog talk! Will keep you updated. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Thanks for an update :) Glad you will be seeing a trainer , and I hope this person can help . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Thanks so much for the update, do keep us posted. We want it to work out for you and your dog. I just wish he could talk human speak or I could thoroughly understand dog talk! This is where video can be such a help. Sometimes watching yourself - allows you to see stuff that you don't see when you're in it. You can get a small tripod (joby gorilla pod is one) that will hold a mobile phone and then use that to video what's going on and get some insight to what the dog sees, what you're doing and what you could try doing differently. I find it really embarrassing to look at - even when it's only me looking - but also really educational - I lost connection with the dog here, my signals were up the creek there, and the dog got distracted here - for basic agility runs... I've also done a bit of video of her at "walk time" or "dinner time" - tho I'm fairly aware that I'm not working through the barking extinction burst - and I will have to choose between allowing the dog to break my hypnotic connection with the computer - or having her behave better with less yelling at me. I also need to do a bit more video of counter surfing issues. She's getting more brazen which means I'm doing a poor job of educating her about putting her paws up on things looking for food. She's weird about it - she just locates the food (by putting paws up, sniffing and looking) but then she sits there and "indicates" which may involve some barking - she doesn't actually steal the food. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Another dangerous and confounding problem is that he is fascinated with cars and when they are going past while I am walking him he trys to run along with them or AT them. I have tried a few different strategies with little success, so now just soldier on, keeping him on a short leash and ignoring his carry on and the car, hoping that eventually he will stop being fascinated by them. Lots of good advice here but this point needs to be addressed. You have a herding breed and as such their natural instinct is to chase anything that moves. I have a breed that tries to head off cars. It is not something they grow out of. You must get control of the dog despite distractions and never, ever trust him off lead around moving vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Glad to hear an update and that help is on its way! If the aggressive behaviour only happens in the morning and evening and is fine in between, is it possible your pup is taking things too far during 'crazy time'? There's an hour window every day with my pup, where she goes bonkers. I've learned to head it off with her we do some trick training with her favourite tug toy as a reward, helps her get out some of her craziness (because crazy hour for us is always after dark, otherwise I'd just take her outside for a play). I found that crazy hour didn't bother my OH, as he wasn't in the path that she would take, whereas I was. Good luck, continue to keep us posted, I hope the trainer is very helpful to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9cult Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Thank you for your replies and the wealth of information you have shared from obvious experience. I am really grateful! The stuff about marking with piddle really made sense and the comment that your dog would get cranky just for being ASKED if he had piddled really rang true for me. My boy always gets a 'look' on his face - like a sullen teenage human - when he is asked to stop doing something EXCEPT when he is out and about, then he is very good. To update, last night I kept him out of the bedroom and left him with the new larger and improved Kong that he has graduated to. He wanted to come in this morning and scratched at the door but I did not let him in. Instead, I opened the door and went out when I was ready - calmly and without fear :) I did not speak to him and pretended to be preoccupied with something else. He then jumped up and I calmly 'removed' him without looking at him and went on my way. I was aware that he tried a very half-hearted snap at my feet but I just ignored it and he seemed to loose interest. I then had to clean up his latest work of art (aka piddle and poo in the house) while he went outside. All done calmly and without comment. He was then given his breakfast while I had a bit of a chat with him. I know these are small steps compared to the strategies that need to be taken but I was happy with myself that I had at least stayed calm and did not display or feel apprehension. re his coming from working dog line, I don't think so, but he has come from a line of successful show dogs both here and in Germany? We met his parents and a couple of other 'relatives' and they are all majestic dogs to be in awe of. Yes, I do think he would love a 'day job' but not prepared to give up on him just yet :) It was very nice to hear echoed what I believe: that he is really a special and clever boy. Thank you for the names of the trainers you recommend. I will look them up and see how I go. And will abandon idea of a dog walker - makes sense what you suggest there. He loves balls, of course and also hide and seek type games so will do that. I am not feeling confident about using the balls for distraction from cars. It usually takes all my strength and concentration to keep him with me when they go past (or overhead as they did yesterday on a walk the involved walking under an overhead bridge) But a professional will be able to help me with that. Thank you for the tips about exercise, I was beating myself up for not being able to walk him and play with him for ten hours a day, seems it wouldn't help anyway! Honestly, I didn't sleep a wink last night worrying about all of this, so getting your response this morning has really made me feel better! Thank you once again! g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9cult Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Hi, don't abandon the idea of a dog walker. A dog walker will get him used to another person and also expose him to different situations /environments that you may not. The point about not wearing them out is correct. I take my GSD on 20km horserides and does not wear her out. She is the only dog that after a canter on the horse is right there by my side, no waiting for her to catch up. My dog has dominant issues as well (i live in the city) but when she is exercised they are not so evident. So point being if you can afford a dog walker, give yourself a break, expose the dog to a different "handler". If you ever go on holidays you want the dog to be able to be cared by another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Another dangerous and confounding problem is that he is fascinated with cars and when they are going past while I am walking him he trys to run along with them or AT them. I have tried a few different strategies with little success, so now just soldier on, keeping him on a short leash and ignoring his carry on and the car, hoping that eventually he will stop being fascinated by them. Lots of good advice here but this point needs to be addressed. You have a herding breed and as such their natural instinct is to chase anything that moves. I have a breed that tries to head off cars. It is not something they grow out of. You must get control of the dog despite distractions and never, ever trust him off lead around moving vehicles. Totally agree with dancinbcs. One of my Border Collies was a wannabe car chaser. She's been taught to look at me for a treat when she hears a car coming when we're out walking... originally it was a stop and sit for a treat, but she's over 12 now, and for several years, looking to me has been enough. (She even does it if she hears wind in the trees that sounds like a car coming.) So it's been based on teaching her through classical conditioning, a response to a moving car that's incompatible with chasing. That said, I would still not push my luck by having her off lead where there are cars moving that she could get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I have a car chaser here as well. I too agree with Dancinbcs & Tassie. I use the same method as Tassie. Hear car or motorbike look at me for treat.While this method works perfectly because herding/ chasing is a natural instinct I would never rely on either of my guys not to chase off lead either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 UPDATE Thank you to all for your responses and invaluable information. We have FINALLY managed to engage a trainer. I do live in Queensland, but regionally. I have left messages and sent emails with as much detailed information as possible and no one but one has responded. Unfortunately, like all reputable trainers she is very busy and we will have to wait a week or so to see her but at least help is on the way. Her initial feelings from the information I have given her is quite interesting but sobering. Anyway, she wont get a firm idea until she meets us all next week and her work can commence. In the meantime, the aggression comes and goes - mainly in the morning and evening but during the day he is fine. I am noticing that he is getting a lot more jumpy than usual. Anyway, we will keep trying to keep him calm until help arrives. BTW, in answer to a previous post recommending that we don't exercise him too much, the 'walks' we do, are really just strolls with lost of 'stopping to smell the roses' so to speak and to get used to different things like pushbikes, children, other people, boats, kyaks, jet skis and pelicans going past not to mention the odd blue tong lizard - there is no hard exercise. I could not deny him, he really loves these outings too much and it is the one time of day when we really enjoy each other's company :) We do play 'mind' games out in the backyard and verandah along with ball games etc. I just wish he could talk human speak or I could thoroughly understand dog talk! Will keep you updated. Thanks again. Just checking in to see how you are going? Hoping that help has arrived for you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterbanns Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 UPDATE TWO! Hello! Well what a day - a wonderful day! The trainer came and within about 5 minutes she had the wee brute under control using a thoroughly calm and assertive manner AND most importantly, I was able to do it. She corrected all the small mistakes we had made and gave basic, simple and common sense guidelines for moving forward. It is like I have a different dog! AND HE seems a lot more relaxed and happy, once he settles. It would seem that the poor boy has some anxiety - born with it, it would appear. So the problems with aggression ie biting and the like seem almost licked, destroying furniture completely licked. The other things like barking at the fenceline at people in their yards, well a strategy is in place and so far so good, but more practice needed. The car issue, almost there. The problem was of course, of his climbing to the top of the pack and my letting him, even though I though I was trying not to. I have also just returned from a "adolescent puppy" class - the first of four. Tonite we worked on lead walking and the boy was on a special high collar with a snout collar and double lead. I FINALLY had control. He pulled me over the other day while we were out walking and as he is strong and continues to grow stronger it was inevitable that it was going to happen again. So tonite was wonderful, I am looking forward to taking him out again with his new collar tomorrow and his meeting other dogs without pulling me so hard that I feel my arms will fall off. The puppies did a bit of socialising and it was very good. All the dogs were around the same age, mainly large breeds and with the same issues. For the first time, I really didn't feel like I was the only one with these issues. The last couple of weeks have seemed very bleak, but now I feel like a weight is gone and we can move forward with a great dog to share our lives with Thank you to everyone for being so kind! I will post another update once we have finished the course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 She corrected all the small mistakes we had made and gave basic, simple and common sense guidelines for moving forward. The smarter the dog - the more they take advantage of the small mistakes we might not even notice. Unless we video, watch it back and then they're really obvious like spelling errors after we hit send. So glad you're getting control back and progressing in the right direction. Make sure you remember to release pressure, and praise heaps when he's doing what you want him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 This a great news! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 UPDATE TWO! Hello! Well what a day - a wonderful day! I will post another update once we have finished the course! *coughs quietly* Maybe a photo as well please? I am so very happy to read of your progress. May it continue and all go very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Great update! I second the request for a photo ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 wonderful news... Great update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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