Greyt Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it. The races themselves produce a lot of injuries and PTS events. I don't know how much of an appetite the public has for that but there haven't been public outcrys, yet, in the same way that there have been for jumpers in horse-racing. And yet estimates are that up to 600 injury/PTS events occur every month in Australia.There are many ways to make the actual racing safer eg if the tracks were straight instead of round, there would be far less injuries. Finding the will and the $$ to make the races safer are another matter By far the worst by-product of the industry is the rampant over-breeding that occurs. The industry admits that around 40% of whelped dogs never make it to the track and are subsequently disposed of, then thousands more healthy adult dogs are PTS every year. If the by-product of having an organised sport is that 10000-15000, healthy dogs are disposed of, every year, I am not for such a sport. In the USA, industry estimates are that up to 90% of ex-racers are re-homed where as in Australia only about 1000 lucky dogs find a new home ever year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Australia isn't the US I know people want to compare what they did and if we can do it too, however we don't have to resources or the homes to adopt out the dogs too. If we did then greyhound rescues wouldn't be struggling so much to place dogs. --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Australia isn't the US I know people want to compare what they did and if we can do it too, however we don't have to resources or the homes to adopt out the dogs too. If we did then greyhound rescues wouldn't be struggling so much to place dogs. --Lhok Hi Lhok, You are right. The US (industry) says 90% re-homing Australia is at 5% As indicated just a few posts up, a lot of factors are different such as gambling laws, private track ownership, public awareness as to the fate of greyhounds, animal welfare sentiment are just some. Comparing the two experiences however is informative - they are far mor advanced in the process of Greyhound rights as it were - we can learn from them, what worked and adopt similar strategies to end intolerable practices and what didn't work and avoid the strategies that didn't work. And you are right too about the Australian rescues struggling but it is much more to do with the rampant over breeding perpetrated by the industry. Dis you know that the RSPCA estimates that there are correct.16,000 Greyhounds PTS every year? Perhaps if we couldn't learn anything at all from a country that has already been through what we are going through, we could learn a thing or 2 from the number 16,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it. ^ This! If greyhound racing is banned it will be the end of the breed. How many show pups are bred each year? Very few, I suspect, though Rebanne would know for sure . The dogs love to chase, it is what they have been bred for over centuries. Of course there are injuries in racing - there are injuries to dogs outside of racing too. My Shep x broke a toe doing zoomies in a paddock, one of my Belgians broke a shoulder jumping a fence, tipping the top bar & landing awkwardly. Do you not think agility dogs & racing sled dogs sustain injuries? Hey let's ban them too! I applaud the work that AA & Animal Lib have done in exposing the dark side of greyhound racing, but nowhere in the general media has there been a mention of the ethical trainers. I listened to a greyhound trainer on Sky Racing Radio recently. He lamented the fact that no-one has mentioned that in the Eastern States (or so I presume - it could have been just NSW) 10 tracks were under camera surveillance, 4 showed evidence of live baiting, the other 6 were clean. Let's get rid of the rogue element so that the public can enjoy fit dogs doing what they do best. Edited February 28, 2015 by trifecta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it. I feel this way as well I have to say. How that can happen, I am not sure. There does need to be closer monitoring and much tighter regulations adn yes the amount of surplus dogs needs to be dealt with in a much more satisfactory way. I know of Whippets injured racing each other in the back yard and yes the odd one dieing from injuries gained in racing around with their friends. So yes there are injuries adn yes they are under more pressure but injuries on the track should not be a main reason to stop racing. My Whippet injured her knee after running around with my dog at home and zagged when she should have zigged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 But the difference between other sport dogs and pet dogs is that they receive treatment and rehab for their injuries instead of being disposed of. In many instances a greyhound won't be afforded the same care, unless they have some value as a breeding animal. I don't know what the answer is, but I think abruptly shutting the industry down, isn't the way to go. We don't yet have the demand for pet greyhounds to ensure that most suitable dogs will be rehomed. there definitely needs to be better regulation of the industry though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 While the bad ones most certainly exist and they should banned for life and be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, there are many others that get no recognition. A friend of mine who is very well informed about the industry in WA was telling me of some kennels she knows, that have heating, air-conditioning and even TVs so the sound soothes them. She is of the opinion that happy and well cared for dogs race the best. She also was telling me how much the dogs absolutely love to race and it would be sad to lose this outlet for them based on the actions of the few. She also thinks that the people exposed in the program should be not only banned for life but should also do jail time. I personally prefer to focus on the positive. I see a clean up of the industry as positive and I see the exposure of how wonderful greyhounds are as pets as positive and I hope that they are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it. I'm a Pollyanna & wish greyhound racing could just be a dog sport ... in the context of a hobby, not an industry based on gambling. So true, greyhounds love racing. I have no moral concerns about gambling per se. But with animals the focus, money considerations take centre stage & welfare has far less priority. Neil Mitchell has been saying this. But I understand, even if this came about, the gambling on dog races would likely go underground. Another economic factor was mentioned by the man who chaired a NSW enquiry into greyhound racing, back in 2013. He pointed out that greyhound racing sustains a 'primary industry' in rural and semi-rural areas & so has economic value to the state. Very difficult to fit the same welfare expectations we have for our pet dogs into all this. I'd like regulations to be the answer, but those which relate to welfare would be very hard to police as the dogs are kept on private properties, with what's done going under the radar. I'm leaning towards banning. But I doubt it'd get banned, anyway. Too many vested interests. Edited February 28, 2015 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Dogs can still enjoy racing as a hobby activity as opposed to a large scale gambling activity that has huge negative animal welfare rammifications. Lure coursing is becoming increasingly popular as a fun dog sport to do with your pet. Ending the racing industry doesn't mean that no greyhound will ever get a chance for the thrill of the chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it. ^ This! If greyhound racing is banned it will be the end of the breed. How many show pups are bred each year? Very few, I suspect, though Rebanne would know for sure . The dogs love to chase, it is what they have been bred for over centuries. Of course there are injuries in racing - there are injuries to dogs outside of racing too. My Shep x broke a toe doing zoomies in a paddock, one of my Belgians broke a shoulder jumping a fence, tipping the top bar & landing awkwardly. Do you not think agility dogs & racing sled dogs sustain injuries? Hey let's ban them too! I applaud the work that AA & Animal Lib have done in exposing the dark side of greyhound racing, but nowhere in the general media has there been a mention of the ethical trainers. I listened to a greyhound trainer on Sky Racing Radio recently. He lamented the fact that no-one has mentioned that in the Eastern States (or so I presume - it could have been just NSW) 10 tracks were under camera surveillance, 4 showed evidence of live baiting, the other 6 were clean. Let's get rid of the rogue element so that the public can enjoy fit dogs doing what they do best. Brilliant post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I believe the greyhound racing industry should be shutdown. My conscience and moral compass does not allow me to support this industry in any way, shape or form. The amount of greyhounds bred, killed, injured and subjected to abject misery year in year out in the name of this industry is simply atrocious. The greyhound racing industry has an extremely poor track record with regards to the welfare of the greyhounds and that is not going to change anytime soon, if ever, as the focus in this industry is the dollars not the welfare of the dogs. Time and time again over many years when the issue of the welfare of the greyhounds is highlighted, whether it be due to reported cruelty cases, investigations into the industry, government inquiries, Four Corner type exposes~, it is the same issues time and time again and hollow promises are made by the industry and required changes to improve the welfare of the dogs are not made and the poor greyhounds continue to suffer. How many chances is an industry to be given?? and propped up by useless governments who should have shut them down years ago. The greyhound racing industry has done a terrible injustice to this beautiful breed and unfairly tarnished their reputations, so they will be forever linked to the greyhound racing industry as long as it is allowed to continue operating. We are meant to be a more enlightened society speaking up for and protecting defenceless animals and be outraged at animal cruelty and the miserable existence that some animals, including greyhounds in the greyhound racing industry, are forced to live. The pro greyhound racing people say shutting down/banning the industry will result in thousands of greyhounds being killed. Well that already happens now, year in year out with approx 60% of the thousands bred every year (estimate of 20,000 greyhounds bred each year)having the athletic capability required for a racing greyhound and out of these, the numbers that do make it to the racing track, their careers are very short lived with most disposed of between ages 5-6 years. The mind boggles and the heart aches at the sheer amount of greyhounds killed in this awful industry, let alone the ones injured and ones subjected to a life of abject misery. If a government was courageous enough to shutdown this industry, it would need to be a phased in approach to prevent en-masse killings of greyhounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) But the difference between other sport dogs and pet dogs is that they receive treatment and rehab for their injuries instead of being disposed of. In many instances a greyhound won't be afforded the same care, unless they have some value as a breeding animal. I don't know what the answer is, but I think abruptly shutting the industry down, isn't the way to go. We don't yet have the demand for pet greyhounds to ensure that most suitable dogs will be rehomed. there definitely needs to be better regulation of the industry though. I agree with you totally except for the "many" greyhounds that won't be afforded the same care unless they are of some value. I know a trainer who spent 10k on his retired, desexed bitch at SASH last year only to have to have her PTS when nothing more could be done for her. Broke his heart, I know this guy personally. He has two other retired dogs that now live on his lounge, swim at the beach every day with him and are loved and adored. He is a small time hobby trainer but has been lumped in with all the rest of the bad eggs. People are quick to tar with the same brush without some of them ever having met a trainer or been to a facility and that annoys me no end. Edited February 28, 2015 by HazyWal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The dogs love to chase, it is what they have been bred for over centuries. Of course there are injuries in racing - there are injuries to dogs outside of racing too. My Shep x broke a toe doing zoomies in a paddock, one of my Belgians broke a shoulder jumping a fence, tipping the top bar & landing awkwardly. Do you not think agility dogs & racing sled dogs sustain injuries? Hey let's ban them too! I don't think agility dogs or racing sled dogs sustain injuries at the rate of 600 per month or 7200 per year. Greyhounds love to run. So do all sighthounds. Only Greyhounds are significantly overbread, only Greyhounds suffer doping, live in tiny cages in such numbers, only Greyhounds are killed because they are not fast enough, only Greyhounds are killed because they are no longer competitive, only Greyhounds in significant numbers are fed such poor diets that their teeth rot prematurely. I hope you crossbreed and your Belgian made fast and full recoveries however I do not think they can teach us much in the discussion about Greyhounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Not picking on you melz, :) but just using your quote to illustrate a point: Lure coursing is becoming increasingly popular as a fun dog sport to do with your pet. This is how gambling/ racing started. "I bet you $50 my dog can reach the hare before yours!" There seems to be a lot of naievety about gambling...... Probably most of you are too young to remember the SP bookie down the pub? If gambling is a licensed activity controlled by the government then revenue can go back into ensuring integrity, welfare & increased prizemoney. The problems in the greyhound industry are systemic, we know illegal practices exist at all levels even at the top. Greyhound Racing needs someone like John Schreck, chief racing steward in Hong Kong, or Ray Murrihy, NSW Racing's chief lawman at the helm. I don't think agility dogs or racing sled dogs sustain injuries at the rate of 600 per month or 7200 per year. Greyt, if you are quoting figures please provide the source :) and it would also be useful to put the figures into perspective, is this nationally, globally or what, & how does it to compare to the number of dogs starting in races? For instance, in Australia last night alone there were probably 10 or more races at 5 or more meets, that's 400 dogs starting in the space of about 5 hours...... so how many starters in a month.... 12000, 15000? I abhor the waste of beautiful animals & agree wholeheartedly that there is overbreeding of dogs in the greyhound industry, but shutting it down is not the answer..... neither do I have the answer.... but I hope some concensus can be reached where the greyhound is the winner. If a government was courageous enough to shutdown this industry, It's got nothing to do with courage, labradore. Gambling raises revenue, it is taxed. It is exactly why the Government doesn't give a rats about the price of petrol at the pump. The higher the price the more they get from their percentage. Edited February 28, 2015 by trifecta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) But the difference between other sport dogs and pet dogs is that they receive treatment and rehab for their injuries instead of being disposed of. In many instances a greyhound won't be afforded the same care, unless they have some value as a breeding animal. I don't know what the answer is, but I think abruptly shutting the industry down, isn't the way to go. We don't yet have the demand for pet greyhounds to ensure that most suitable dogs will be rehomed. there definitely needs to be better regulation of the industry though. I agree with you totally except for the "many" greyhounds that won't be afforded the same care unless they are of some value. I know a trainer who spent 10k on his retired, desexed bitch at SASH last year only to have to have her PTS when nothing more could be done for her. Broke his heart, I know this guy personally. He has two other retired dogs that now live on his lounge, swim at the beach every day with him and are loved and adored. He is a small time hobby trainer but has been lumped in with all the rest of the bad eggs. People are quick to tar with the same brush without some of them ever having met a trainer or been to a facility and that annoys me no end. Yes I looked after two just a few weeks ago with the same sort of owner. He bred them, trained them and now they are retired with him. He lost one to snake bite a week before they were due to come in and he was a mess. He will be lumped in with them as well and that is not fair to him and many others like him Edited February 28, 2015 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 There are a large number of trainers that love their dogs and use ethical training techniques. Unfortunately, They have always been simply overwhelmed by the numbers of those those that put money ahead of everything else, including the welfare of the dogs in their care. For every dog living in air-conditioned comfort, how many healthy dogs in the prime of their lives are mercilessly shown the bullet? @ Trifecta, FWIW, I made my living from gambling for a short but sweet 18 months before my OH decided I was having too much fun and had to work for a living. My feeling was that most of the punters l came into contact with (a lot) led lives of quite desperation. Seeing it up close and personal made me feel just a little bit grubby. Informed punters know they can't beat a vig of 16-20% so the people wagering on Greyhounds are generally .. not well informed. BTW, the figures I have quoted ITT are mainly from RSPCA Vic - http://www.rspcavic.org/issues-take-action/animals-in-sport-and-entertainment/greyhound-racing Given the industry does not keep many figures such as how many dogs are disposed of after their usefulness has expired, I guess the RSPCA would be in the next-best position to educate the general public, hence my references to their figures. PS I never bet on animal races of any description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 GRNSW have not been back to inspect my property or check on the welfare of any animals since the day they approved my kennels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I haven't read the whole thread, and have no particular interest in greyhound racing, but I watched the show as an outsider and dog lover and was horrified. Even worse though is the numbers of unwanted dogs being killed. If the estimated numbers being talked about are correct (or even half true) this is an absolute tragedy. Surely if the industry contracts or even disappears then these dogs will no longer be bred in such numbers? Seems to me if racing persists then breeders will continue to breed more and more dogs hoping for a winner. Serious question for advocates of dog racing, is there a way the industry can thrive without producing so many unwanted dogs? Obviously they are not popular as pets (right or wrong) so how can we limit the numbers of dogs which don't make the grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) ANKC National Registration Statistics: http://www.ankc.org.au/National-Registration-Statistics.aspx 20 Greyhounds registered in 2013 2 in 2012. 16 in 2011 So there really isn't a critical mass for show Greyhounds tho' I suppose the pet market would open up if racing were banned. Edited to say you can see the "rare and difficult" sighthound registrations like Afghans and Salukis far outpace the Greyhounds. Edited February 28, 2015 by SkySoaringMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it. ^ This! If greyhound racing is banned it will be the end of the breed. How many show pups are bred each year? Very few, I suspect, though Rebanne would know for sure . The dogs love to chase, it is what they have been bred for over centuries. Some years there are no litters. People don't want greyhound pups anyway. They are very hard to find homes for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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