Puppy Mill Near Grafton?

[dollygirl]

After many vet visits, she has adopted a wait and see re the amputation as he is not in pain.

So the dog has not been in any pain, it was given away with by the sounds of it full disclosure from whoever bred it and you want to report them for what ?????

For not treating the puppy adequately while in their care. No vaccination, no microchip, no worming. It almost seems that the intention was to have the puppy put to sleep to save money. If he had been treated when it was first damaged then he would be normal now.

Edited April 5, 2015 by dollygirl

[WreckitWhippet]

After many vet visits, she has adopted a wait and see re the amputation as he is not in pain.

So the dog has not been in any pain, it was given away with by the sounds of it full disclosure from whoever bred it and you want to report them for what ?????

For not treating the puppy adequately while in their care. No vaccination, no microchip, no worming. It almost seems that the intention was to have the puppy put to sleep to save money. If he had been treated when it was first damaged then he would be normal now.

Unlikely in a small juvenile animal.

Good luck proving their intention, they may well have considered putting the pup to sleep, you argue to save money, the breeder may well argue in the best interests of the pup.

[dollygirl]

After many vet visits, she has adopted a wait and see re the amputation as he is not in pain.

So the dog has not been in any pain, it was given away with by the sounds of it full disclosure from whoever bred it and you want to report them for what ?????

For not treating the puppy adequately while in their care. No vaccination, no microchip, no worming. It almost seems that the intention was to have the puppy put to sleep to save money. If he had been treated when it was first damaged then he would be normal now.

Unlikely in a small juvenile animal.

Good luck proving their intention, they may well have considered putting the pup to sleep, you argue to save money, the breeder may well argue in the best interests of the pup.

So is it usual practice (for reputable breeders) to find a home for a puppy that is not microchipped, vaccinated or wormed? I would have thought that caring dog breeders would do the best possible for their puppies, have I been misled?

I thought microchipping was mandatory.

[tdierikx]

It is not illegal to not vaccinate or worm your dogs... if they are otherwise healthy. It is illegal to rehome a pup that is not microchipped, but I've not seen that one enforced across the board - one just needs to look at the number of animals that end up in the pounds without chips to know that there are MANY people rehoming without chipping first... and new owners not actually bothering to do it either.

The pup was rehomed to what appeared to be a decent home (at the time) with full disclosure of his issues... so who's really at fault here... the breeder, or the new owner who offloaded him to someone else when they realised that they couldn't deal with the issues any more?

T.

[WreckitWhippet]

I'm assuming that the pup changed hands twice and wasn't chipped.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Aren't breeders in NSW supposed to comply with the code of practice

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/animal-welfare/codes/breeding-dogs-and-cats

Is it in the best interests of the puppy to be kept alive? What about all the other basic welfare issues that seem to be missing from this puppy's life which I imagine include the vaccinations and worming and microchipping.

Transfer of Ownership Objective

The transfer of ownership of animals should be used to promote socially responsible pet ownership, and to reduce the destruction of companion animals.

9.1.1 Standards

9.1.1.1 Puppies and kittens must not be re-homed before they are 8 weeks of age.

9.1.1.2 Dogs and cats must not be re-homed to people less than 18 years of age.

9.1.1.3 No dog or puppy, cat or kitten may be sold unless vaccinated in compliance with the requirements of Section 8.2 of this Code.

9.1.1.4 All dogs and cats re-homed must be microchipped, and treated to remove gastrointestinal parasites prior to release.

9.1.1.5 No dog or cat suspected of being sick, injured or diseased may be sold under any circumstances.

9.1.1.6 At the time of purchase, clients must be offered accurate written information at no charge which concerns the care of animals purchased.

9.1.1.7 If within 3 days a dog or cat is not acceptable to the purchaser for any reason, the breeder is required to take the dog or cat back and refund 50% of the purchase price of the animal. This guarantee must be provided in writing to the purchaser at the point

So the most interesting one is 9.1.1.5 saying can't sell an unhealthy puppy but nothing about giving it away.

But the breeder and the neighbour seem to have failed on

9.1.1.3

9.1.1.4

9.1.1.6

9.1.1.7

[Steve]

You may get a case for the breeder breaching the microchip laws but this isn't the person the dog was handed over to and the rest is in the wind.

Prove the pup that was said to be handed over not wormed and vaccinated is this pup. It wasnt identified and the second owner is in breach as well as the breeder for on selling without a chip.You also dont know what the agreement was between them. What do you want to get out of it - there isnt a refund or payment for vetting at best you can get the breeder a very small smack on the wrist if you can get anyone to take notice of second hand info.

[dollygirl]

My main concern is getting help for this puppy. The more I look into this, I don't think this kennel is a puppy mill, but a breeder trying to make money. I have found out that they are using at least 3 breeds and crossing at least one of them with a Poodle. I don't know conditions of the kennel. I only know about how the puppy was received by my sister. The vet that my sister is in consultation with is now saying "that is puppy is in no pain, then leave it alone." However I believe this is because of lack of funds from my sister, she has really taken on a dog that she can't afford and now loves him far too much to do anything but love him and look after him to best of her ability.

I am going to research into the this suggestion, which hit me of being very valid through the night, always our or my best time for insight.

quote name='Kirislin' timestamp='1428008055' post='6672708']

I wonder if he might have been a "swimmer" puppy? I've only seen them as puppies but if they didn't get treatment I'm wondering if they turn out like you've described.

I have the breeders telephone number and when armed with as much information as possible will call her and see what come of this. I am not really interested in pursuing reporting breeder, since finding out a bit more personal information about her.

[redangel]

Sounds like this dog needs less concern with whose fault is it (some time has passed under the bridge) and well it isnt going to help this dog and its issues. Personally the fact is wasnt microchipped then is illegal...but is it microchipped now? Is it vaccinated now? Are you calling your sister out on a white lie when you say she tells you the vet is saying the dog is in no pain? No vet I know would decide if a dog is in distress based on the owners financial capability to pay a bill.

Apologies but I take a dim view on people who think they are doing the right thing in "saving" an animal by merely keeping it and loving it when it obviously needs a higher quality of care...is there any chance Dollygirl you can present the dog to a independant vet for examination? I would personally put more energy in seeing if there is anything medically possible to help this dogs quality of life. If the dog is deemed to be in pain or distress and despite the fact your sister loves it she is only being another one in the chain of people who are not doing right by this dog.

Edited April 5, 2015 by redangel

[dollygirl]

Sounds like this dog needs less concern with whose fault is it (some time has passed under the bridge) and well it isnt going to help this dog and its issues. Personally the fact is wasnt microchipped then is illegal...but is it microchipped now? Is it vaccinated now? Are you calling your sister out on a white lie when you say she tells you the vet is saying the dog is in no pain? No vet I know would decide if a dog is in distress based on the owners financial capability to pay a bill.

Apologies but I take a dim view on people who think they are doing the right thing in "saving" an animal by merely keeping it and loving it when it obviously needs a higher quality of care...is there any chance Dollygirl you can present the dog to a independant vet for examination? I would personally put more energy in seeing if there is anything medically possible to help this dogs quality of life. If the dog is deemed to be in pain or distress and despite the fact your sister loves it she is only being another one in the chain of people who are not doing right by this dog.

I totally agree redangel and I am struggling with this issue as well. I did originally push for the puppy to be returned to the breeder. I feel he was offloaded by the breeder as a simple option. I have made some suggestions to my sister on how she could try and raise money to help him but to no avail. She is speaking with me now and saying she can live with him as he is and it does make really angry that she hasn't done enough. My sister lives in Grafton and I am in Sydney, I didn't know how badly the puppy was effected until when on holidays up in Coffs spent 1 day with him.

The photo on my avatar is my springer and the springer lying down is my sisters.

He is microchipped and vaccinated now.

Edited April 5, 2015 by dollygirl

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Sorry to be blunt but as a dog rescuer who takes on dogs with various illness sometimes, I don't think your sister sounds like a suitable owner for this particular dog. She didn't even do the basics.

[dollygirl]

Sorry to be blunt but as a dog rescuer who takes on dogs with various illness sometimes, I don't think your sister sounds like a suitable owner for this particular dog. She didn't even do the basics.

I know. I am struggling with this myself..I can't say it to her though. She thinks that if he is well fed and being trained and is loved then it is enough.

[redangel]

I know it is hard when family members are involved. I know first hand how frustrating and torn you can be and I feel very sorry for you on this. I guess it would be hard for you to offer money for assessing this dog as well...is there an organisation like Lort Smith that your sister could get access to? My concern is that his problem may be just the start of things as his better limbs/joints are carrying the load..and who knows how solid they are. For those who are in rescue here...what are your ideas on getting for help or rescue for a dog in this predicament? I wouldnt be holding back my frustration though ....in my instance I would give my sister a. Option to accept my offer to pay for a consultation b. discuss the need/requirement to do what is best for the dog and follow through c. as a last option involve the authorities.

Again I understand that sometimes family members when involved can make it even more distressing. In the past I have a. rehomed for a family member and even bought one back to re-home off a family member.

[dollygirl]

I know it is hard when family members are involved. I know first hand how frustrating and torn you can be and I feel very sorry for you on this. I guess it would be hard for you to offer money for assessing this dog as well...is there an organisation like Lort Smith that your sister could get access to? My concern is that his problem may be just the start of things as his better limbs/joints are carrying the load..and who knows how solid they are. For those who are in rescue here...what are your ideas on getting for help or rescue for a dog in this predicament? I wouldnt be holding back my frustration though ....in my instance I would give my sister a. Option to accept my offer to pay for a consultation b. discuss the need/requirement to do what is best for the dog and follow through c. as a last option involve the authorities.

Again I understand that sometimes family members when involved can make it even more distressing. In the past I have a. rehomed for a family member and even bought one back to re-home off a family member.

Yes I am tired of 2nd guessing about this pup. I have concerns with his other leg, it is extremely muscular but is miss shaped. His front is extremely wide and flat. His hindquarters do not have very much muscle tone either, I was expecting the muscles to be very developed but he must be depending on that one working leg..he sort of drags the other bad leg and of course the elbow of that leg is not attached. She was going to have him x-rayed and asked me the approx cost then decided against it.

I did contact these people in Lismore http://www.animalrights.org.au/index.php

I am happy to help pay something to help him but don't know who she should go to.

[dollygirl]

I am offering to pay for consultation but need to find the correct person near Grafton..she has accepted that.

She contacted the breeder this morning and they spoke to each other all warm and fuzzy..wants her to visit her, wants to see puppy.

Breeder said the vet told her to put puppy to sleep but couldn't do it. So obviously did nothing instead.

Edited April 6, 2015 by dollygirl

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I think there's a specialist vet in Taree - she may have to do a drive, I hope she's up to that.

Xrays are not that expensive, if she's not willing to pay that then she surely won't undertake further work, this dog will eventually be in a great deal of trouble.

Rescuers would start with xrays and consult with somewhere like SASH or similar (there are other ortho vets around).

[Steve]

But hasnt the current owner taken the dog to a vet and been told the dog isnt in pain and no treatment is required - so what is the problem ?

[dollygirl]

Yes she has a friend who is a vet, who thinks the puppy is not in any pain. She isn't a small animal vet but specialises in horses. The vet being a friend, I felt that both the vet and my sister were bringing the financial situation into the equation. I am really concerned the way the puppy moves, I wish I had a video of it to show you. I have a springer as well, they are athletic dogs, this poor little fellow has a go at running, one front legs throws out and the other leg is useless. It would be easier for me to just let this go, but my heart and head is saying not enough has been done.

[_PL_]

I think leaving the 'puppy-farm' stuff behind and getting xrays are a great idea. :) There is a rescue in Grafton who might be able to send you to a vet that has been very knowledgable in the past when they have had a wonky dog.

Our foxy boy Speedy a complex surgery. His bones were deformed in his hind legs, his patellas were off doing their own thing. And to just take look at him .... to me it honestly looked like his hips were the problem. Because they had very little muscle and he was looking a bit pigeon toed. Obviously that was incorrect.

Anyway, the specialist repaired him in two surgeries and he's now a normal happy little dog who has also grown muscle where there was none. But without those xrays being taken and looked at by his vet and specialist we would never have found out he had a rare condition that could be fixed. If he was not repaired, he would have been a wonky dog unable to enjoy a run, risking painful injuries and very early arthritis.

Sorry to not be explaining things in medical jargon bones aren't my strong point. lol It was just to say that all is not lost, you just need a diagnosis before worrying too far ahead. Have a vet do the xrays and if it looks like you need a specialist (or if you just want to see one anyway) they will do a referral.

xxAnna

[dollygirl]

I think leaving the 'puppy-farm' stuff behind and getting xrays are a great idea. :) There is a rescue in Grafton who might be able to send you to a vet that has been very knowledgable in the past when they have had a wonky dog.

Our foxy boy Speedy a complex surgery. His bones were deformed in his hind legs, his patellas were off doing their own thing. And to just take look at him .... to me it honestly looked like his hips were the problem. Because they had very little muscle and he was looking a bit pigeon toed. Obviously that was incorrect.

Anyway, the specialist repaired him in two surgeries and he's now a normal happy little dog who has also grown muscle where there was none. But without those xrays being taken and looked at by his vet and specialist we would never have found out he had a rare condition that could be fixed. If he was not repaired, he would have been a wonky dog unable to enjoy a run, risking painful injuries and very early arthritis.

Sorry to not be explaining things in medical jargon bones aren't my strong point. lol It was just to say that all is not lost, you just need a diagnosis before worrying too far ahead. Have a vet do the xrays and if it looks like you need a specialist (or if you just want to see one anyway) they will do a referral.

xxAnna

Thanks Anna, I think the rescue in Grafton is Happy Paws? They know my sister there, I will call in the morning.