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Australian Working Dog Rescue: Dog Bites Child


koalathebear
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What I cant work out is that the contract they get potential adopters to sign says that they are given first option on taking the dog back even after its been paid for. There was also something about commenting against them on social media too which seemed a bit odd. The dog we trialled was unsuitable and they took it back - it took a few days but there wasnt a problem. Clearly for us it wasnt a match as it didnt gel with our household - completely different dog appeared when the foster carer picked it up - we gave them suggestions and it was another two months before it was offered again so assumed they did further training etc but that was a different state to the one being discussed. Im just amazed the guy just didnt say they would take the dog back even if it took a few days to sort.

However we then went with a puppy as we didnt want to chance it again with trying another rescue as our older dog is a bit special and took a little to get back to his routine.

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I'd be interested to know if anyone posting here has received any threatening messages from the founder as that's the style.... :laugh:

I have. This was what I got when I resigned from the organisation. It was a very unpleasant end to what had mostly been pleasant except for interactions with certain individuals. These were emails sent to me directly.

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Someone made a collage of the inconsistent legal threats here i.e. sometimes your dog can be seized, sometimes it can't be. More here:

I have three friends who adopted dogs and were threatened with having their dog seized back well after adoption:

- 2 for disagreeing with him

- one because he criticised the photos and petrescue profile and she said: "Please refer to original write up already supplied if you don't like my updated version."

The sad thing is that most people are frightened into silence because they think that the legal threats are real ... one of them was even a tough bloke who has no installed security cameras and motion detection sensors :( It's really, really sad ... It as the first group I ever fostered for - it was SUCH a huge relief to me when I finally left and volunteered for other groups to find out that they're not the same and that there are some great groups out there.

Edited by koalathebear
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How common is it for rescue groups to require foster carers to assess their dogs for things like resource guarding against humans and/or other dogs, anxiety, reaction to children, reaction to strangers, reactions to other dogs etc?

Do groups generally have a list of situations they require dogs to be tested in?

Just thinking that a dog fostered in a home with adults and one or two other dogs, with a big yard could be perfect in that home, show no signs of aggression towards anyone in the home, be fed each day following a routine where food is presented however and the dog is left alone to eat, outside while humans eat (or all the time), not walked because they get plenty of stimulation playing with the other dogs in the yard... Perfect dog with no apparent issues BUT untested in a wide range of situations.

There would be (are) plenty of lovely foster carers out there who know dogs, take great care of dogs, do the write ups and conduct meet and greets but who do not have the knowledge to do an actual behaviour assessment of a dog, and nor should they be expected to. Denny's foster carer was probably one of them. I'm sure the carer didn't lie in the write up of Denny, presumably Denny just hadn't been tested for resource guarding human food in the vicinity.

I know you can't cover all scenarios, there is always risk, with any dog not just rescue dogs, but it concerns me that people are adopting dogs that have been in foster care based on the belief that have a good idea of what the dog is like from what they are told by the carer and group, when really the dog could be far from actually assessed.

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How common is it for rescue groups to require foster carers to assess their dogs for things like resource guarding against humans and/or other dogs, anxiety, reaction to children, reaction to strangers, reactions to other dogs etc?

Do groups generally have a list of situations they require dogs to be tested in?

Just thinking that a dog fostered in a home with adults and one or two other dogs, with a big yard could be perfect in that home, show no signs of aggression towards anyone in the home, be fed each day following a routine where food is presented however and the dog is left alone to eat, outside while humans eat (or all the time), not walked because they get plenty of stimulation playing with the other dogs in the yard... Perfect dog with no apparent issues BUT untested in a wide range of situations.

There would be (are) plenty of lovely foster carers out there who know dogs, take great care of dogs, do the write ups and conduct meet and greets but who do not have the knowledge to do an actual behaviour assessment of a dog, and nor should they be expected to. Denny's foster carer was probably one of them. I'm sure the carer didn't lie in the write up of Denny, presumably Denny just hadn't been tested for resource guarding human food in the vicinity.

I know you can't cover all scenarios, there is always risk, with any dog not just rescue dogs, but it concerns me that people are adopting dogs that have been in foster care based on the belief that have a good idea of what the dog is like from what they are told by the carer and group, when really the dog could be far from actually assessed.

I help out with a few groups. It varies across groups and it is left to the discretion of the carers in most instances. I use this socialisation checklist for my foster dogs, and include it in the dog's CV/User Guide when it goes on trial adoption so the adopters know what the dog has/has not been exposed to.

All my foster dogs are assessed against this training table and I won't adopt out before they have mandatory behaviours. Aggression is definitely tested. We have 3 resident dogs plus tonnes of friends with dogs and we take our fosters to obedience class so we are able to test the dogs with lots of different people and dogs. I only adopt dogs to families with small children if the dog is calm and bomb-proof - there have been a few in that category. As mentioned above, where the dog is being adopted to a home with a cat or with a resident dog who is cranky, I engage a behaviourist to help me transition the dog into the new home - I'm lucky to know some very pro-rescue behaviourists/trainers. I also put the new family in touch with the trainer. With our last few dogs, the applicants have come to obedience class and wrangled the dog before the dog goes on trial. With Jerry, we actually took 4 months to transition him into his new home before his formal trial started (lots of sleepovers, visits, taken for walks by applicant) and with Dyson, he had 3 weekend sleepovers and was taken on a few playdates and walks before his trial started. I am mega paranoid though.

Edited by koalathebear
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d. Like greyhounds and the purebred dog fraternity - if the rescue movement isn’t willing to expel our bad eggs, we’ll be regulated by outsiders and legislation whether we like it or not.

Above from Shel's blog.

So why isn't rescue regulated? Does it not fall under state jurisdictional codes of practice?

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That's brilliant KTB! I think you are the Gold standard of foster carers!! I wish all groups had a minimum standard at least. And I think it should be the responsibility of the group leaders to set those standards up, not the carers.

Edited by Simply Grand
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d. Like greyhounds and the purebred dog fraternity - if the rescue movement isn’t willing to expel our bad eggs, we’ll be regulated by outsiders and legislation whether we like it or not.

Above from Shel's blog.

So why isn't rescue regulated? Does it not fall under state jurisdictional codes of practice?

It's a very thin-almost non-existent layer of regulation that might as well not exist. Seems like anyone can set up a rescue ... You don't actually have to be a fit and proper person as people who have reported the conduct to the regulators have found out. It's very disappointing. I personally think there should be more accountability - and I am very, very pro-rescue.

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d. Like greyhounds and the purebred dog fraternity - if the rescue movement isn’t willing to expel our bad eggs, we’ll be regulated by outsiders and legislation whether we like it or not.

Above from Shel's blog.

So why isn't rescue regulated? Does it not fall under state jurisdictional codes of practice?

It's a very thin-almost non-existent layer of regulation that might as well not exist. Seems like anyone can set up a rescue ... You don't actually have to be a fit and proper person as people who have reported the conduct to the regulators have found out. It's very disappointing. I personally think there should be more accountability - and I am very, very pro-rescue.

Especially because they are utilising donated funds, supplies, time, energy and good will, with very very limited accountability to the people providing those resources, let alone anyone else.

ETA - that just made me think of something, do private rescue groups registered as charities have to provide annual reports to anyone?

Edited by Simply Grand
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I'd be interested to know if anyone posting here has received any threatening messages from the founder as that's the style.... :laugh:

I have. This was what I got when I resigned from the organisation. It was a very unpleasant end to what had mostly been pleasant except for interactions with certain individuals. These were emails sent to me directly.

aqyc6xE2v.jpg

aqD5P6pLx.jpg

aqzvmzb0c.jpg

aqzK5Zwzn.jpg

aqyNGEbvN.jpg

Someone made a collage of the inconsistent legal threats here i.e. sometimes your dog can be seized, sometimes it can't be. More here:

I have three friends who adopted dogs and were threatened with having their dog seized back well after adoption:

- 2 for disagreeing with him

- one because he criticised the photos and petrescue profile and she said: "Please refer to original write up already supplied if you don't like my updated version."

The sad thing is that most people are frightened into silence because they think that the legal threats are real ... one of them was even a tough bloke who has no installed security cameras and motion detection sensors :( It's really, really sad ... It as the first group I ever fostered for - it was SUCH a huge relief to me when I finally left and volunteered for other groups to find out that they're not the same and that there are some great groups out there.

I just properly read your email chain, had to enlarge it on my phone. This guy seems delusional! The privacy act does not cover details of pet ownership and fence height for goodness sake, and of course an adoption application can be shared with a member of the group in question who has a clear need to know the information as the custodian of the dog in question.

So bizarre.

ETA and just looking at the links, UNBELIEVABLE!

Edited by Simply Grand
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they've been around for a while, I am surprised they haven't actually been sued by now, with all the dogs that they must have put out to adoption. I cant understand how they are still operating, there's so much bad press going 'round about them. :confused:

WOW! I just read the links, that is appalling! Surely he's found this thread by now. I wonder if he will sue Troy and everyone here.

Edited by Kirislin
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they've been around for a while, I am surprised they haven't actually been sued by now, with all the dogs that they must have put out to adoption. I cant understand how they are still operating, there's so much bad press going 'round about them. :confused:

WOW! I just read the links, that is appalling! Surely he's found this thread by now. I wonder if he will sue Troy and everyone here.

I think you've found your own answer to why things aren't more widely known. I think incidents like this will let people know that they shouldn't be afraid to speak up and share their experiences.

As to suing, there's nothing of substance here to sue about.

- the incident happened and this posts links to Jane's account of what happened to Matthew

- the media report on the incident happened and Carey was given a right of reply and they filmed his actual response

- I've reported on things that actually happened to me and Carey's response - people could check my emails to confirm that they are authentic

The links are to external screencaps/emails, but I know the persons to whom those emails/comments were made or who made the screen caps so have stuck within the circle of what I know as a fact. As to finding this thread, I suspect the organisation has more to deal with than a factual account of events in a dog forum ...

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d. Like greyhounds and the purebred dog fraternity - if the rescue movement isn’t willing to expel our bad eggs, we’ll be regulated by outsiders and legislation whether we like it or not.

Above from Shel's blog.

So why isn't rescue regulated? Does it not fall under state jurisdictional codes of practice?

I'm a rescuer and I believe rescue should absolutely be regulated.

The money side of it.. :shrug: one person's waste of money is another person's valuable investment. As long as money is not being used for any purchases outside of the organisation's scope, I don't think detailed reporting of finances is all that necessary. Complicated financial reporting requirements take time and energy away from where it's needed and very few small groups have the luxury of handing that stuff off to a professional to manage. Down here, we're required to have a yearly audit to be an incorporated association and they cost ~$500. When your donations for an average year are barely $500, it's impossible to maintain. I ended up just dropping the incorporated association and funding my rescue, myself. Somehow, that actually ended up costing me less of my own money.

The animal welfare side of things, however.. that needs addressing. "Rescue" groups warehousing animals for years, not desexing, not bothering to screen homes for suitability for the breed/individual, not disclosing behavioural issues, and so on and so forth. The whole point of rescue is to improve welfare and I see a lot of cases where the opposite is happening.

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This is all kinds of weird for me. Some years ago I was part of a Christmas fundraising activity for AWDRI. I met the people who established it and spent half a day side by side with them. They were lovely. I continued being a financial supporter. Then I emailed them for assistance/advice. No response so I sent a second apologetic email and the response I got then was very rude. Even if they didn't remember me there was no need to type what they did. I was really sad. I've avoided them since and no longer suggest them as a rescue option to anyone looking.

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There's a nsw rescue that could do with reading Shel's blog from what I've witnessed on fb.

Koalathebear, you handled yourself really well in that email exchange.

As for regulations, in nsw, rescues have to abide by multiple legislation. Most of them simply don't know the legislation they're meant to operate under. I find that only a handful even understand the Companion Animals Act, let alone POCTA or any others.

Edited by ~Anne~
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  • 5 years later...

I know this is an old post but I have had issues with AWDRI and an unknown staff member but they always signed off their emails with "don't be a dog dumper". 

 

We contacted them to assist us, we were in a difficult situation and I got a bucket load of abuse and very strange, almost childish behavior.  I was accused of being a dog dumper and I had to sort out all my mistakes and bad behavior. I was also called "woke", accused of being selfish, having a small brain.. lol, a wanna-be dog dumper also.  The exchange I had with the "anonymous" email writer aka founder of AWDRI was alarming to say the least.  I was quite taken aback.

 

I recently received a notice from AWDRI about a fundraiser, I could not use the link to unsubscribe, I wrote to them to tell them and said I wouldn't be supporting them as they have rude staff.

 

Well, CE stuffed up and sent me an email from his own account - using the same tone and sign-offs as the anonymous AWDRI email writer prior.

 

I agree with the sentiments in this post - Shel's Blog - particularly the 2nd last paragraph, most people contacting an organisation for assistance are vulnerable and in an emotional state.  It is not easy to surrender a pet.  It could tip someone over the edge.

 

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Could'nt see the original post of the story done , so only know what i'm reading from comments  ,, which brings me to ask , do these rescue organizations recieve funding from the govt , councils ect , I know the rspca do  but what about others  , it would explain why they exist  if they don't seem to care ..

 

On a side not i would say that , ACdogs  are the one dog that needs to be thouroughly assessed big time more so than any other dog . In fact i would say  a thousand times more so than any other dog , they are the one dog that  you really have to watch closely AT FIRST .  what do i base this on , well i'm not a dog behavourist ,  in fact don't even know if there is an acredited course for this , i'm not a dog trainer , and i'm not a dog breeder

 

i BASE THESE STATEMENTS ON  SPENDING THE LAST 30 YEARS OF MY WORKING LIFE GOING INTO   HOUSING TRUST HOUSES , i was a maitenence contractor for the SAHT  and has such i would go to  at least  5-8 houses every single day ,, i always said to the guys working for me beware of the cattle dogs , a shepard , a rotty , doberman and most dogs  will always let you know there aggresive its easy  , but a ACD  often would not  until it bit you ,,,

 

Now don't get me wrong i love them there probably my favorite dog of all   except for the shedding ,  i adopted one at 12 months of age of a young girl with a baby who  had to rehome him , he was fantastic with the baby , i brought him home  and he was such a good dog , at 2 i let my son take him because he wanted a dog for the kids , he was such a good familly dog  , he's 10 now and they still have him  he's wonderful and best mates with the 2 year old   will not leave her side ,

 

However at work i always found  if the blokes said  we got problems with the dog , 9 out of 10 times it would be an heeler  they just don't seem to have any fear  of strangers ,  we used to laugh about it when new blokes would start and it would'nt be long before they would say to me Jeez your not wrong about them heelers are you ,  not saying there viscous just that they have to be watched very closely if your not part of there familly , once they got to know you they were usually very freindly .  I know lots are going to disagree  and say its all dogs don't single out heelers , but this was my observations after 30 years of painting 60-70 houses A MONTH for 30 years .  Lovely dogs though by and large , like i said my favorite dog ,,  only reason i don't have one now is the wife  said if i get one i'm the one who's got to hoover the house twice a day ,, and that ladies and gents is'nt happenning

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kirislin said:

I forgot to mention though that Widget is a great grandmother, Neko a grandmother and Secret an  auntie because her brother Obi sired a litter of 2 with Jasmine, a beautiful little cream coloured girl. A blue boy and girl.

 

 

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Did you mean to post in this thread, @Kirislin?

Edited by ~Anne~
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