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Crazylabmum

Toilet training on command HELP!

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Hi, new to the forum. I have been trying to train my Assistance Dog in Training to go toilet on command. He will very reliably go in our backyard on command but never out. The trainer said just keep going different places and he’ll eventually have to go. However like today for example, he went 15 hours without going in order to wait until he got home. In the end we got him home and he went all over the house floor so couldn’t even make it outside.  This is not healthy for his bladder to hold out that long.  I don’t know what to do. Tearing my hair out. Everything I read says it’s easy once the dog knows the command. Obviously they haven’t met MY dog!! Does anyone have any ideas?

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Do you have a trust worthy adult dog who will reliably piss on command to be an example? When I brought my (already toilet trained) puppy home he didn’t go until 2am... when I took both dogs out to potty and he watched my older, then copied her (to my relief and I’m sure his!). 

 

There are sprays I believe you can buy, they’re like urine target sprays to aid toilet training. You spray where you want the puppy to go. Spray it on ground, give the command and wait while pup has a sniff. 

 

alternatively but At risk of being a bit disgusting. Dab a bit of fabric into this pups urine. Put it in a plastic bag and drop that when out and about o_o 

 

 

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Hi :) ..so ..he will go at home .

I suggest you extend 'home'..as it seems he has learned to toilet in a place/to other cues  ..NOT in response to the word used  ;) 

try using the cue word in all sorts of different places around the house/yard ..ON LEASH ..so he toilets  in a spot you select  eventually ..upon hearing the cue word .
maybe start with his favourite spot ..first thing in AM . put leash on ..long leash if needed .. and use ONLY the cue words  repeat, repeat
..NO name... or any other conversation  until after he has done what is needed...then treats/praise  whatever is good :)  When this seems to work.. move to other spots nearby  for a few days ..then start changing spots ..front yard ..back yard ..out on footpath .... and so on ... 

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2 hours ago, Thistle the dog said:

Do you have a trust worthy adult dog who will reliably piss on command to be an example? When I brought my (already toilet trained) puppy home he didn’t go until 2am... when I took both dogs out to potty and he watched my older, then copied her (to my relief and I’m sure his!). 

 

There are sprays I believe you can buy, they’re like urine target sprays to aid toilet training. You spray where you want the puppy to go. Spray it on ground, give the command and wait while pup has a sniff. 

 

alternatively but At risk of being a bit disgusting. Dab a bit of fabric into this pups urine. Put it in a plastic bag and drop that when out and about o_o 

 

 

Thanks, I didn’t realise there were sprays! 

 

My son has offered to show the dog what to do lol

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5 minutes ago, persephone said:

Hi :) ..so ..he will go at home .

I suggest you extend 'home'..as it seems he has learned to toilet in a place/to other cues  ..NOT in response to the word used  ;) 

try using the cue word in all sorts of different places around the house/yard ..ON LEASH ..so he toilets  in a spot you select  eventually ..upon hearing the cue word .
maybe start with his favourite spot ..first thing in AM . put leash on ..long leash if needed .. and use ONLY the cue words  repeat, repeat
..NO name... or any other conversation  until after he has done what is needed...then treats/praise  whatever is good :)  When this seems to work.. move to other spots nearby  for a few days ..then start changing spots ..front yard ..back yard ..out on footpath .... and so on ... 

I’ve been doing that and he’s happy to go wherever.... as long as it’s in the backyard. He’s a little too well trained it seems... I’ll leep persisting 

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Tassie   

How old is the dog?   I'm another one who is a great believer of having pups on leash when you're working on any sort of toilet training.   Many people have trouble because they have never toileted the pup on leash when it's young, and you hear 'oh my dog has to be off leash before he'll wee/poo whatever.".  I travel and compete in dog sports with mine, and so it's essential that they can toilet on leash .. even though their preference may be to be off.

So in the case of your dog, I'd be quite strict about having him on leash any time he's going to toilet.   Particularly on leash when he goes outside first thing in the morning .. just follow him round with the leash and let him choose the spot/s in your yard at first .. as Perse suggested.   Another advantage of doing this is that you can see what the dog's preferences are for toileting .. e.g. grass, mulch, big patches of grass.   My older Border Collie really prefers to do his poos on a taller clump of grass, small bush, etc. .. so that helps me when I need him to poo .. just find some appropriate vegetation and then limit his area with the leash.   (He also has to circle 2 or 3 times to make sure his chosen spot is actually suitable … whatever :rofl:).

Then as Perse suggests you can start moving him .. again first thing in the morning is probably good .. to somewhere different, but not too far away.

It's going to be time consuming at first, but it will pay off in the end.

 

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16 hours ago, Crazylabmum said:

He’s a little too well trained it seems

..too accustomed to the backyard ..THAT is the stimulus for his body to toilet ...  ;) 
you need to   teach his body to respond when it hears your cue word .

Are  you using a word very different to normal words you use ? 
Remember ..toileting time is all business ..until it's finished ..so ..  all he hears is the cue word, conversationally ...it needs to be a word  ok to use in public, AND one which is said in a pleasant tone ..also to  be pleasant in the public eye   ;) 
 ..then gentle praise when he is toileting ...interspersed with cue word ..'Goood boy ..."toilet"' or whatever .... then a treat/play /cuddle ..afterwards :) 

My conversation with dogs here ..if we had neighbours ..they'd hear something like this :
C'mon fred ..out for 'quick-quicks'..
(dog trots  , on leash  to a spot I indicate )
"Quick-quick...repeat, repeat , mumble mumble ... quick quicks .....  (watching dog carefully)  then  quietly ..good boy fred, quick quicks... you're doing quick quicks ..what a clever dog ....  blah blah ...

*sigh*  We start with youngsters ..when we catch them toileting , we say our cue word ..if it coincides, there's a praise party ..then ,  before they travel in a car , come in the house , go to work (sheep/goat mustering) etc .. we say it again ..and they usually oblige .   

it will take a lot of practice for you ..but boy , is it worth it!!! 

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Dogsfevr   

Start training him to wee out the front of your house ,go back to basics .In the morning he doesn't get to go out the back ,place on lead & head straight out the front .
Your dog knows the backyard is where he should toilet & hasn't learnt that going out the front is just as good.
Yes i have owned 2 dogs that wouldn't toilet when out both showdogs .I train all my pups to toilet on leash in the back yard & rewarded even more for going on the leash .
One of the dogs i got at 15 months so it took time but with patience not necessity he finally was relaxed & comfortable with toileting at shows  .
My other boy i got as a pup but was very toilet proud ,he was more of a struggle to poo onleash at away shows but it wasnt the end of the world they do hang on but finally weed .
Use your cue but don't make it about the drama & a specific thing ,dogs pick up on your expectations .
I would causally walk around areas with a high pee rate & not say anything when my GSD  finally weed i also didn't make a big deal off it just walked of wish a simple good boy ,over the next few days followed the same no fuss procedure & each time he weed again i would slowly introduce my word but i made him fell his success was on his terms

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My pup came with a fear of pooping in front of me and a sphincter like a vacuum cleaner. He could not only abort an attempt to go and hold on for hours at 8 weeks of age, but even...retract.

I thought he’d overcome it...no. He’d just either thought he had privacy or not seen me pick it up.

When he had to go in the middle of coming to sit by me, he froze completely before bolting and going. 

Silly me praised him gently and didn’t realise that he was now coming up with ways to not only not poop in front of me, but to prevent me from picking up after him and even being present when he needed to go. 

Since we were one step away from him realising that eating might be connected to pooping, I decided that my skin and I were just going to go full-on intervention mode on him.

 

Basically I made sure no one was allowed near him for about a week so that they didn’t get connected to the poop saga. 

Then I ignored the dog hanging off my arm long enough to stand by a poop and repeatedly perform what must have looked like the most ridiculous choreography ever, went something like 

“puppy goes to toilet” circle, squat, look at poop

”and then I come along” march on the spot 

“and pick up puppy’s toilet” actually do so with pooper scooper

”and take it to the magical toilet bin!!”

take it over there, put it in and close lid.

I did this over ten times, after about number 6 pup got it and let me have my arm back, so I used it to give treats whilst reminding him that toilet is a good thing, and a secret between me, him and the magic bin, the last character being the most important as that dude is the one who stops others from seeing the poop. Magic.

 

Then I just calmly but firmly picked up poop when needed and told the dog on the arm that toilet is good. I did ditch the pooper scooper and went with latex gloves as reducing the cast of characters really calmed him down a lot and meant less blood loss for me.

 

And then, just out of the blue, he let me pick it up one day without biting like crazy in an attempt to have me play instead of notice the poop.

 

Then we had a vet check up, and I knew he definitely had to go as soon as we were home, and I excitedly raced him to the bathroom spot (because yes he held on for hours again). 

He was I guess so thrilled that he made it home to go that he was ok with me using the T word and picking it up. 

 

And now, we can poop on command (if we have to go), and it’s cool.

other people can even watch now. 

 

I’m not sure if that’s any help at all, I guess what I’m getting at (maybe? Even I don’t know!) is that sometimes even the most tried and true methods can fail through the fault of no one, we just don’t know what is going on in those minds.

So if possible, maybe hold off on toilet training for awhile in case it’s a confidence issue, because older dogs can definitely be trained, or on the other hand you can just go hard and use the total immersion technique (sorry for the bad visual!), just to nip it in the bud. Provided of course that you know you can be calm and patient and consistent throughout. 

 

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Are you saying your pup bites you hard enough for blood loss when he goes toileting or when your picking up after him, that seems unusual 

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16 hours ago, PANDI-GIRL said:

@CharbearsMa  does your pup still bite you

Not anymore, no :) 

it was just “play biting”, his attempt at the “don’t do that, do this!!” redirection thing we’re told to do with them lol, but it was starting to get a bit too frenzied.

 

now, he excitedly helps me “find” the poop, trots alongside me to clean it up, and goes when asked  (if he needs to go). 

 

Edited - yeah it’s not a phobia I would’ve expected tbh but he was obviously terrified that I’d tell him off for toileting. 

The blood loss would be my fault haha I had super thin skin when he arrived due to an allergy, he actually has incredible bite inhibition now after seeing me wince in pain after his whiskers brushed against my hand! :p

but he was quite a mouthy puppy, not unusual for his breed but he certainly would’ve been heading for top of the class, mouthing wise ;)

Edited by CharbearsMa
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