angelsun

I agree that many toy folks need to get their act together...I remember one six day marathon I stewarded where we had what I called the "pug-dominium"....a stack of pug crates on a wheeled trolly that had no less than a dozen....in and out, switch and change....at one point I did catch them taking a dog back into the ring in another class that had been judged already and I tried to point that out to the handler, who got VERY snappy and said "I know who I"m showing!!" Ok then.....til the time came to judge bitches and she stomped in with a dog on the lead....oops! All in all, a dozen pugs pushed through in a reasonable time....no drama really....but then I remember the little old darling with three Jap Chins and I swear she took about 15 minutes to sort them all out as they were in separate classes....that was painful to watch as she tried to change leads, numbers and be in the correct spot for the judge. I remember one other time when an exhibitor who lost, stomped out of the ring snarling at me saying...."you can just tell that judge I think he's an absolute moron who's blind as well as stupid for not awarding THIS dog!" To which I calmly replied....you have just done that yourself sir....he's standing behind you.

this might help...it's got some good ideas. introducing_two_dogs.doc

Absolutely...I try to get a progesterone done on Day 1 if possible to find my "base line" Then I go from there...it seems to work really well. Testing every 4 days until I hit around 2 (my system) then every other day or if she seems to be moving fast, every day and the key I found...was try to get blood drawn the same time each day..it really helps you sort out the numbers better.

Ah..ok..see I can't get into the site so can't read anything..it loads the top part and freezes solid requiring a shut down at my end...thanks for clarification!

No problem..I just slapped it into a table and it's fine...makes sense as well...thanks again.

Solid Gold used to have 'Concept-a-Bitch' which I'm told was very good..had manytrace elements that are often lacking and very helpful for bitches...another OLD stand by is 'raspberry leaves'

I've never been able to open the site as it keeps freezing...is everyone sure that this site does in fact belong to this poster? I'd hate to see a witch hunt started based on an assumption.

Will copy this with some spaces....bit mushed up there....thanks....something to study since I"m not going to the dog show today!

That would be great....sucks to have to learn all this over again!!!

It's for UNDER active thyroid that many have been using. I had great success with males, one male in particular that had about 2 sperm under a scope during a test, went to very viable to freeze in less than three months on this method. Friend of mine had a Dane bitch that had many misses and two pups and when she put her on the meds, had a litter of six without issue and no misses prior to the litter and when the meds were started. This bitch came from a long line of big producers, so going from many misses and two pups to 6 is an amazing jump in my opinion...since then, my friend puts all her bitches on thyroid meds and has had a much better success rate of breeding than she had for almost 5 years of misses and low pup numbers.

You numbering system is a bit different here than what I am used to but am thinking it's just a decimal point thing...anyway..I can tell you how I used to interpret my LH levels. A bitch CAN stall up to 2 and many assume that 1.5 they will progress at the same time frame..not always true...for me, if I was doing a natural mating or a fresh chilled, when the bitch hit 2, I knew to mate five days later, BUT I did another progesterone after they hit 2 so that I knew if they were in deed progressing at the same rate..I have had bitches decide to stall between 2 and 5 so I tend to keep an eye on things. Natural or fresh or chilled AI's at this time, work well and often I need only to do one mating (if natural) although if there is enough in the chilled semen, I will split the amount and do one AI and 12 hours later, insert the remaining. If I'm doing frozen implant, I wait til they hit 5 and implant 48 hours later, although new science is saying we are rushing now to do that and should be waiting 72 hours after they hit 5. (I'm not sure on that and haven't tried it, so can't comment)

Got what I need..thanks everyone!

"Can you let the judge know I need these points to finish this dog?"

I went looking for dictonary references for Randy versus Ratbag and found neither...glad you sorted that out for me. After breeding for thirty years, nice to be sorted on that one! Because as I mentioned..I progesterone to hit the ideal breeding time. In many cases, one mating is done and based on the science..that's all I need to put anyone through. It's got nothing to do with being in prime health. Just because they CAN mate everyday, doesn't mean they MUST. My dogs all ran together as well, I would have it no other way..if they can't, they aren't bred from...I don't want that sort of temperament introduced thanks. As do I have happy and content dogs that have good mating experiences and my 'interferance' does not cause any problems. Can you please explain your definition of 100% whelping percentage....I'm trying to figure out if that means every mating you have done has had pups, or you have never had any losses in your litters....? :p

BAER is how the shelties I've known about were determined to have hearing on the one side.

If anyone has a catalogue, can you PM me? I'm looking for some info on two breeds for the Saturday show. Thanks!

We found that giving a low dose of thyroid meds for about two months prior to her coming into season and whilst she was being bred, increased the number of whelps considerably. Works great to up the sperm count on males as well.

I've heard of it frequently in Shelties. Further testing showed hearing in the other ear was just fine.

I beg to differ on both counts..I have seen entries with imported sire/dam that are American and Canadian (both have the same issues, both not good ones!) I have not seen any German Conformation judges (here) so can not comment, however I have seen my share of 'specialty' dogs appear at some All Breed shows, and yes, they do have roached backs and sickle hocks.

Kavik, I agree with your analogy and use that thought process myself. I do not use the word DRIVE however as I think it's a term that is misunderstood and has a far wider definition than the majority of people are willing to understand or give to it. I also have dogs that traditionally are not 'workers' so their levels or concentration and participation are much different than a herding dog for example. My breeds do not live to please me...they are instinctively designed to be independant workers that do not or will not take instruction to do their task from humans. This makes things VERY different when it comes to training in my opinion. I"ve been working with GSD's lately and they are a breeze compared with my current and former breeds. Their level of work ethics are simply not something you can compare to my breed. Drive is subjective...for whatever reason, many trainers seem to feel that unless they 'see' that intensity in the dog during the task, it's not working in 'Drive Mode'. I watch some of my dogs working at their task and they do not have that 'look' we see in many working breeds so does this mean their 'drive' or desire to complete their task is less? I should also add, that interpreting the look of "drive" is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen many dogs that their owners/trainers proudly proclaim them to have that intense driven look and I'm just not seeing it. I've also seen many dogs work beautifully but with the wrong motivations (in the era where ear pinching and severe corrections promoted obedience through fear) and their handlers brag about how much drive the animal has, and this is why it works so well.

This is already a positive so no turning it into one....I agree to start naming objects and even make more of a gave of it, to not permit the dog to simply go 'bring you everything' That will get tiresome after awhile....if the dog wants to fetch....simply shape that desire to your will. simple things like laying out objects at a time of day (five minute micro fetching sessions work great) and have the dog respond. If you don't allow the activity ALL the time, the dog will continue to find it fresh and fun...if the dog is allowed to fetch and bring whenever and whatever it wants....you may find that it tires of this game.

I want to add that there are still and have been many in the past that did hips/elbows long before it became mandatory to do so through the implementation of GSD Clubs and the ANKC. I personally do not find that the breed has come ahead in 30 years, but that is just my opinion. After watching the breed in North America morph into something that to many is unrecognizable as a GSD, and seeing the same thing here in this country, I find it discouraging that so much favour has been placed on a system that has allowed the breed to go from a straight backed, strong dog of such versatility, to a dog with a roach and hocks that hit as it moves. From dogs that could walk on their feet, to dogs that can't walk without doing so on their hocks. Many will disagree with me..that is their right, however it is also my right to state my thoughts about the evolution of this breed which I do not beleive has been a good thing.

This is why I allow one to two matings and not six. Because simply there is no need to put either dog nor bitch through it. I use progesterone testing with great success whether it be natural breeding or AI's and don't waste anyones time or energy as a result. As you have said, it does not matter how many matings you get over that time frame....therefore my simple arguement is why allow males/females free reign when it's simply not needed and can be hazardous (in my opinion) BTW, recent studies are showing semen to be viable for 7 days post ejaculate, and bitches that will stand and accept a male 3-6 days prior to ovulation. Once again, using science elimiinates unneccessary matings and wear and tear on both male and female. Perhaps all that allow natural unaided matings to occur have been very lucky....I have seen and know of too many breeders that have run into problems, severe problems that resulted in too much cost for both pocketbook and dogs health. I'm simply not willing to take that risk, nor do I encourage others to do so as well. it's in the same vein as allowing a bitch to whelp unsupervised..I know many that still do it claiming that the strongest will live, the mother should have the instincts etc, etc....I'm not about to do that and risk the lives of either the bitch or the pups. These are not simply dogs to me, but part of my family and I"m not willing to put their health in jeopardy by allowing 'mother nature' to run her course. I did that once, and lost a bitch with eight babies in her belly, because someone told me (in my younger years with less experience than now) that nature would sort things out...don't worry....a day later, the whole lot are dead....a situation that had I known what I know now, would never have happened, because to be blunt, Mother Nature isn't always right.

that's exactly right. What should be remembered is those that have strayed away from traditional obedience, will find a renewed interest in that sport and PLEASE remember, that Rally is NOT sloppy obedience..if anything it's more precise and tricky when it comes to heeling and proper positioning. (besides that, I'm a very hard marker...just ask some of those that have attended the seminars)

I"m not sure I would use the word ratbag in reference to a dog that is keen to breed, nor would I say that using such a dog is a detriment to a breeding program. that's a pretty wide brush in my opinion. I have had my share of wise stud dogs that lay beside a bitch until just the right time...I"ve had my share of randy boys as well, but either way, I still will not put my bitches through what I feel are unneccessary matings because I"m stuck on 'going natural'. There is very little "natural" left in the world of purebred dogs, nor has there been since we began manipulating genes to develope breed characturistics. Why would a person allow a male to mate so many bitches? Very simple.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$