espinay2

I am over the RSPCA well and truly. It strikes me as quite the double standard when it was only a short while ago that they were all at a ceremony at the War Memorial to award Sarbi the RSPCA Purple Cross for doing the same job!

No - Schnauzers are not terriers. Though they should be grouped with Pinschers if we are looking at historical development. Not sure why they were split up when group 6 and 7 were split here. While the split of LGD between groups 5 and 6 doesn't seem logical (and didn't to me either until it was actually pointed out to me recently) they are actually split more or less between the two groups in line with the FCI split between mountain type dogs (which we put in our group 6 and are in FCI group 2 along with Pinscer/Schnauzer type and Mollossoid type) and dogs from lower regions (in our group 5 and FCI group 1 which is sheep and cattle dogs).

Regarding the statement in bold. I have to ask. Are their breeders out there who work for rescues that are using the rescue resources rather than their own to rehome dogs they have bred? I am not talking about just contacts for people who might be looking for homes as these can often be passed freely between breeders and rescues and I would not class a dog as a rescue because the dog was united with a person through a contact list of people looking for dogs (my friends just got a lead for a dog through a rescue but dealt with the owner who was rehoming the dog - while the lead came through rescue the dog is a rehome). I am talking about in general classifying a dog as a rescue and possibly using rescue resources to rehome a dog where they are the breeder of that dog.

I think many people confuse 'rescue' and 'rehome' When a breeder takes a dog of their breeding back and finds a new home for it, that is not rescue that is a rehome. When an owner finds a new home for their dog, no matter what story they spin (whether true or not) about where the dog will end up otherwise, that is a rehome not a rescue. Where a dog is taken in by people who are not the dogs owners edited to add - like a rescue service as explained below which is an example of this definition (or who do not have some connection to the dog such as the dogs breeder, or vested financial interest in the dog such as a store or broker) and they keep it temporarily before finding the dog a permanent home,THAT is rescue. And of course buying from someone who has a financial interest in the dog (such as a breeder, broker or store), not matter what the condition the dog or pup is in, is a sale - not a rehome, and not a rescue either.

You might mean this one? http://www.lgd.org/library/dogfight.htm

It is his system of hip scoring that we use here in Australia (the AVA scheme scores in accordance with the 'Willis system'). Thanks for posting.

There is a kennel prefix with 'Shante' in it so not sure if you will get anything with that in the name. Shante means 'peaceful' or 'peace' so you could run with that. how about: Prefix Gift of Peace

I would not immediately condemn a dog for 'standing over the body' (particularly if it was a pet concerned about its owner - my own dogs have been known to stand over me and nudge me if I fall and am hurt - and how many times have we seen the movie scenario of 'the person standing over the body must have done it'), but there are so many things that are unclear in this story that it is hard to judge one way or another. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

OMG cuteness explosion. I know all puppies are cute, but that is simply off the scale

On that we can both agree! ( But that is because for these breeds, HD and other bone and growth issues are known to be conditions prevalent in the breed.) Sadly it can be a hard thing for someone to do here in Australia, for Pyrs at least (I am pleased to say my own dogs now have nearly complete 5 generation pedigrees of hip scoring with the missing scores being 4 and 5 generations back)

Puppy socialisation is very important ant the period up until 12 weeks is critical. Agree that you need to be reading up so you can inform and educate potential puppy buyers. Up until around 8 weeks is a critical period for pups in the litter. It is during this period that they learn some important socialisation skills including bite inhibition. Removal of a pup from the litter earlier than this can often result in a puppy who has poor understanding of doggy lenguage and social skills, has poor bite inhibition and often gets 'frustrated' and agressive in social situations with other dogs later in life. It is important to read up and understand why 8 weeks is the usual recommended date. After 8 weeks is the phase when it is important for dogs to socialise not just with dogs but with people and to see other sights and sounds. At this age it can be important to separate a pup from other litter mates for most or a percentage of the time so that they begin to interact with people even more rather than their siblings. This window of opportunity for early socialisation last up until about 12 weeks of age and is a very important period. It can be a fine balance between immature immunity and socialisation but there is a LOT that can be done in this time. Wrapping a pup in cotton wool during this period can be very counterproductive for the pup. Whether the pup is with you or in its new home, it will need to have a start with its training and socialisation during this critical period. It is important to be able to explain to puppy buyers what needs to be done with a pup during this important period and how they can go about it. Or if they want you to do it, to explain what that will involve for you (and yes it may involve explaining any additional costs IF you wish to charge them for taking on that early socialisation role for them). There are links to some good articles on this webpage which may provide you with some information so you can talk to your puppy buyers: http://www.4pawsu.com/vaccinations.htm A good book for puppy owners is 'The Perfect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey I also suggest the Dogstardaily free ebooks 'Before you get your puppy' and 'After you get your puppy': http://www.dogstarda.../free-downloads

Me Angelsun Angelsun Seems we actually agree on these last points. What tests should breeders HAVE to do in their breed? I don't feel it should be a 'one size fits all' thing that every breed should be tested for one specific condition or another. There are ways of establishing whether we should start testing which dont actually involve testing - and these involve knowing our breed and being aware and open to recognising incidences that require further investigation when they arise. Testing should be approached on an individual breed level (just as you are doing with your own breed). By knowing the history of the breed and seeking out situations within your breed that may be issues, you determine what onditions may be inherent and what tests are relevant to YOUR breed. In a breed where a condition is certainly present and someone dosn't test because 'they dont have a problem in THEIR dogs' - I agree totally with the 'you dont know if you dont test' theory in many cases. In these types of situations I agree that some breeders are definitely putting their heads in the sand. I have been told by some breeders that if they started testing for a particular condition which is inherent inthe breed they would limit their breeding choices too much so they dont want to do it (if ANYONE can see the actual logic in that please tell me!!!!! ) But the theory can't necessarily be applied in a blanket fashion across all breeds and all conditions though. As you have shown in your reply, there are methods of determining whether a test may be necessary for a breed, BEFORE you actually start testing for it. I therefore think that looking negatively at those who dont test for certain conditions in their breed (which may be highly necessary in another) is not the way to go unless we know that there have been incidences of the condition in that breed that need further investigation. FWIW

For Walking, my pups (large breed as you can see ;) ) I use: A martingale collar (Premier,Lupineor Country Brook Design). These collars are very adjustable and they fit a Pyr pup pretty much from the beginning until fully grown - no need for new collars. They last well too - I have some that are over 15 years old and look almost as good as the day I got them despite being used regularly. I like them so much I have them in my puppy packs. A double lead of some kind. My favourite are from Rogz or the mountain rope ones (callicoma has them). Again, same lead I use as an adult.

And how do we know that there is a condition inherent in the breed, unless we test? A lame or limping dog, does not mean dysplasia...a dog that is blind or partially blind does not mean there is an eye problem....in the above, there there could problems that do not show by physical symptoms and without testing, we simply are using an ostrich mentality and leaving our heads in the sand and hope it goes away if we can't see it. But where is cut off point? Should all breeds test hearts? BAER test for deafness? What about degenerative myelopathy? Von willibrands? Copper Toxicosis? Should we test every breed for every condition? How did you come to the decision to test for some things in your breed but not others? What made one test more important for you to do than another? By your logic you are putting your head in the sand over every condition there is currently a test for that you are not doing on your dogs. (and before anyone starts slamming me for being 'anti test' I suggest looking at the profiles of my dogs on my website ;) )

To understand your standard, you need to understand the breeds history and development and how the standard came to be written. Can you go back are read about how the standard came to be written? Are there any articles or books which explains who first put the standard together and what they were aiming for at the time? In my breed we have some good information in this regard and you can follow a lot of their thought processes on the whys and wherefores of some of the finer points. It helps demystify a lot of things in the standard. In relation to variation, remember in any breed there can be different 'styles' or 'strains'. They can be equally correct within a standard but still have a slightly different 'look' about them.

It is too much of an individual thing to answer within the answers you gave. Frankly I don't feel that any general number should be set. What is relevant for one breeder is not relevant to another. I would suggest reading the 'larger breeder' thread. More litters does not equal a bad breeder and for some breeders one litter is one too many. Agree 100% If we are not careful animal rights will have their way and dog ownership will be legislated out of existence. Breeders will no longer able to keep the dogs to breed with, they wont be able to breed the litters they need to keep the breed viable or have the genepool available to breed within the genetic guidelines being enforced and there will be less and less responsibly bred purebred dogs available for pet owners. Forget two or three year waiting lists for puppies and think ten or more if you are very lucky.

Dogs can eat the lot, bones and all. Depending on the size of the dog and the size of the chicken you can give it to them whole. Mine often get half a whole chook for a meal. I just cut it in half down the middle with the chicken shears and give them half each.

Pyrs seem to be between $1500 and $3000 (from a registered breeder). Interestingly the difference between the top and bottom isn't related at all to the quality of the bloodline or whether the sire and/or dam is imported or the product of frozen semen AI - the price is dictated purely by what the breeder decides they want to charge.

Some of the best breeders in my breed (on a world wide scale) are larger breeders who breed frequently. They are the breeders whose names are well known in some of the 'better' pedigrees and are recognised as making some of the most significant contributions to the breed. A lot of their dogs are also sold as pets (or livestock guardians). This holds as true today as it did in the past. We really have to be very careful that breeding is not limited so much in some cases that we reduce genepools to the point where they are no longer viable. And we need to be VERY careful about imposing labels driven by an 'animal rights' view of what is ethical. 'large scale breeder' does NOT automatically equal 'bad breeder'

Yes, though luckily in my breed we don't have many. If we hear of one, breeders around the country usually talk to each other to make sure whoever is closest responds if necessary and the breeder is located if possible. We try to keep our ear out for Pyrs in need (note to everyone - if you EVER hear of a Pyr in need, contact a Pyr breeder or the Pyr Club in Victoria - we cant help if we don't know!) One of the rescues stayed for life when I didn't feel I could place her elsewhere due to her issues ('Liza Jane' in the 'in memory' section of my webpage). I have helped out in different ways in the past (assessment, contacts, foster, transport) for Pyr, Pyr crosses and the odd other breed as well. I generally stick nowdays to being prepared to help out any Pyr in need when required, including helping any owners (of any Pyr) who are having difficulties, with advice or guidance so they can hopefully help themselves before if becomes a real rescue issue.

I usually wont show if it is going to rain. Showing big white hairy dogs in the rain is not really that fun no matter how much you say 'they are meant to be out in the paddock in the rain' (with a troublesome knee I am also too worried about slipping and doing more damage to show them really well in overly slippery conditions). I dont like setting and packing up in the rain either so might as well be at home enjoying myself in the dry (while the dogs splash around in the paddock in the rain ;) ). Though I will say I have broken my rule on more than one occasion! (including this past weekend at Albury! - though I was there for the seminar as well). I did pack up and go home a day early though. After going through about 20 towels in one day I had nothing dry left! Rainy days at shows can be fun sometimes, but I will continue to give them a miss for the most part unless the show is really special for some reason. Missing the odd show because of rain isn't going to kill me.

Teach him that it is ok to grieve. That men cry too when they lose something precious and it is ok. Teach him to talk about his feelings, not bottle them up inside. Be straight with him on what is happening. Tell him you hurt too. Acknowledge what is happening, but tell him you need to do what is best for your dog and sometimes that means saying goodbye even when you dont want to. Talk about the good times with your dog. Talk about how special it has been having them as part of your life and how even with all the hurt you wouldnt have missed that for all the world. Tell him how the pain of losing them is worth it to be able to spend your time with them. Give him time to say goodbye. Like others I remember coming home and being told the dog was gone. While they broke it gently and thought they were doing the right thing I really hated them for a while for not giving me time to say a proper goodbye. Seeing him grieve and say goodbye will hurt you, but it may hurt him more not to give him that opportunity. Ask him how he would like to remember your dog. Does he want a special picture on the wall? A picture and candle on the mantle? A special tree or plant or stone in the garden? Does he want a little ceremony? Will you bury or get the ashes? He may not want any of that and that is ok too. The important thing IMO is he gets the opportunty and time to feel like he has some control over the situation so he can deal with it in his own way and feels he can talk about it if he needs to. FWIW

Food. No 'free feeding' - all food comes from you. 'Bonding' btw is mostly about leadership and having your dog look to you as a good leader. ......and about enjoying the time you spend with your dog no matter what you are doing together. (though being a good leader helps this too ;) )

The film was shot in Canada. I know the lady with the PBGV (who was placed in the Group in the movie). Apparently when they were filming there were some 'precious' handlers who got upset when their dogs didn't win Apart from the lead characters (who had handling lessons for the movie) the rest of the handlers are all real and the dogs are all real showdogs - brought in as extras. Edited to add: This is 'Jak' (BISS Am. Cdn. Nat'l (JHA). Int'l (UCICB) Ch. Amonvhar D'Arryos Weskyuwin) the PBGV in the movie: http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/PBGVFC/amonvhar2.html

Pyrenean Mountain Dog - no compulsory testing. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge most breeders here in Australia do not hip score . I only know of two breeders that do and they do hips, elbows and patellas (I am one of them). Do I think they should be done? Yes. They are scored a lot more frequently overseas than they are here. Do I think all breeds should be hip scored? Not necessarily (though I understand fully and agree with the argument that you don't necessarily know you have a problem unless you do test - I just beleive that this is not an issue that can be dealt with via a blanket rule for all breeds and needs to be addressed on a breed specific basis). Do I think all breeds should be health tested for conditions inherent in their breed? Yes