Erny

Hey Steve ..... what d'ya say? :wink:

You have a PERSONAL life????? Okally dokelly Cosmolo ..... 'twas just a nudge. ETA: Besides, it put the order of my two 'related' topics the way I like them .

You are each trainers in your own right ....... separate ones under the same business will be fine. After all, you are two individuals expressing your own individual views. Just a reminder.

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Yes - IMO you should be concerned. You MUST be perceived as the leader to BOTH dogs, and what comes with your leadership is your responsibility to protect each dog (as well as, of course, your right to govern, as perceived by the dogs). Beware - at this age your own dog could also be in, or entering, a second fear impact period. It is important that bad experiences are avoided during that period. I would be keeping each dog separate for a while. Perhaps where they can orientate but where each does not have to succumb to threatening advances by the other. This will also allow some time for your "leadership" to be perceived - especially by the new foster, who quite possibly has come with some other learnt pre-conceived ideas. Lots of parallel walks (two walkers needed for this) off property until you identify they are beginning to relax around each other.

Seems you are having bad luck with them, that's for sure. Did Innotek say what the problem has been? Same problem/fault for each one, or a different fault?

Have received some initial enquiries as to whether "training in drive" will be included in the workshop. The answer is "yes" if there are sufficient numbers who are interested in this. We'll cover pretty much whatever you want ...... just need to know what that is.

Pro-K9 Dog Training & Behaviour Consultancy and K9 Force Dog Training and Behaviour Consultancy are pleased to announce the forthcoming "Take the Guess-Work Out Tour" Seminar and Weekend Workshop for 2008!!! Venue KCC Park 655 Westernport Highway (between Thompsons Road and Hall Road) Skye 3977 Melway Map 128 Reference J12 Dates Friday 16th May 2008 Saturday 17th May 2008 Sunday 18th May 2008 Details are almost final, those on our email lists will get ticket options for this event hopefully by the end of this week! If you want to come, your best chance is to be on this list!!!!

A friend of mine began experiencing the same problem with her pup. I suggested she barrocade the verandah (hers is one that surrounds the whole of the house) leaving only the area near the back door - which is where pup was offending. Put the pup's kennel up there and also feed there. She tells me this did the trick and pup now habitually uses the yard rather than the verandah.

No - it's either a case of you are recognised as pack leader by your dogs, or you're not. There are numerous things you can do - these are generally daily interactions, direct and indirect. Sometimes some dogs will rise to the challenge with certain tactics (even tactics which at first glance to the novice would appear fairly benign) which is why I tend to hesitate to put them out as "advice" without knowing your dog. But fairly safe are tactics such as NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) .... this is where your dogs don't receive ANYTHING for nothing. Not a pat; walks; play; car-ride; treat; dinner; ..... nothing that your dog enjoys, for nothing. Have your dog sit; shakepaw; or any other trick/obedience command that YOU chose, before your dog receives something enjoyable from you. Also of course is "TOT" .... this program is "pinned" at the top of this training forum. These are just a start. IMO, applying "leadership" from every angle possible is the way to go to get the message across clearly and quickly and to achieve maximum result. But to prescribe more - well, as I said, I don't know your dog. The fact that the dog is already escalating to nipping at you when YOU don't respond the way SHE wants concerns me. Perhaps it is a benign behaviour (even though undesireable), but it is worth taking seriously and nipped in the bud straight away.

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That when we think we are loving our dogs, we aren't really loving them enough to be doing them any favours. We need to "love" them in ways they need and are less likely to become confused by.

It is difficult to identify with the little information and without seeing your dog, but it is possible that your dog's behaviour indicates a leadership problem? IE That SHE thinks she is leader? Rather than ONLY looking at the symptomatic behaviour (ie the jumping up; ensued by nipping if you ignore), look to see if there are other things that you can be doing to adjust/enhance your leadership status. Eg. NILIF The other question I ask is how long has the behaviour been occurring and how much time have you spent on each method? The "ignoring" might have been working, but you've (understandably) quit before her extinction burst has expired. She learns from that to escalate her behaviour to nipping to demand your attention - and she learns that this works. In what circumstances does she exhibit the jumping up behaviour?

Never had cause to do this myself. Pups that have been 'difficult' (due to behaviour problems) that the owners have not been able to manage in the class environment have been afforded some one-on-one assistance and I've found this normally gets them 'over the line'. But in the more rare but severe cases, a home visit consultation has assisted. If there was to be anyone who wasn't following instruction and as a result potentially causing problems for the other members of the class, then yes I might need to have a word to them to explain and to let them know if they won't participate as a class member then "class" is not for them. However in the years I've been involved in puppy classes, I can't say I've needed to go that far - most people with puppies are happy to be guided and where they might not listen to some things, the difficulties that present themselves by their pup's respondant undesireable behaviour is usually enough for the owners to start listening.

Beyond the advice Tony has provided, there is also the "Scat Mat". I haven't needed to use one myself, but in essence it is a light mat that gives an unpleasant sensation to the dog when touched. The advantage being that some dogs learn to not surf benches when you're there, but learn it's ok to do so when you're not. It either runs off battery, or mains via a transformer. If you google "Scat Mat" I think you'll find more details easily enough.

If you don't want your dogs out in front of you ever, you can achieve this training even in release mode. Simply do a quick about turn every time your dog moves out in front. Praise and keep moving forward when your dog is level with you. In this way, you can still walk your dogs and allow them to sniff and take in the 'news' of their environment, rather than always heeling where they are not permitted this liberty.

Do you think that it is possible that he's learnt (through your training) to not be ahead when you are 1:1 with him, but that when you're with two dogs and when you're on the bike, your "training" does not occur, hence the difference?

Generally speaking I don't mind where the dog walks (assuming he is in "release mode" ie not in "heel"), so long as I can tell that he hasn't forgotten that I'm at the other end of the lead.

I think it started from this comment : And given that the topic heading is "The Dangers of Giving Advice on Forums" isn't that what we are talking about?

Yes Rom - and Steve will be supplying the dozens of single long stem roses to bestow upon those whose performance meets the 'pass' criteria. And your dog will be dubbed "CCDX" (companion canine dancer extraordinaire). Of course, the handler must demonstrate excellence in lead technique whilst pirrouetting amongst the TOTulips. Steve should soon be announcing the first of his seminars in "Training in Drive Tights" very soon. Now THAT will be a sight for sore eyes!!!!! I'd pay to see that!!!!

The way I read it, I think the point Rachelle tried to make from the outset is that even if you know a specific breed in general, the giving of advice over the internet for the treatment of that individual dog is still fraught with potential to be wrong, simply because that individual dog may not be typical of its breed.

:cool: Let's just say that Rom has in fact taken learnings from a ballerina. Oonga - perhaps I'll treat you to a demonstration when next I see you :cool:. Although the ol' pins don't hold "fifth position" so easily these days.