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there are three products with this ingredient Bravecto, Nexguard and Simpparica (or spelling similar?) O'Domhnaill Shanz Does Bravecto Kill Dogs? utos1Sspon4sot tgJruuly 2eft0liu20d · ADMIN AWARENESS POST Per a well known vet: "Some good news on possibly helping isoxazoline impacted dogs. There is a theory out that high fat ingestion, cheese and/or coconut oil binds the isoxazoline that attaches to nerve and brain cells." See notes below from a top vet who wishes to remain anonymous- “Suggests fat-globule forming in the bloodstream (such as cheese) in case residually-bound Fluralaner molecules in the animal's body (particularly in nerve/brain tissues) might yet be coaxable to partition out of those tissues' cells and be excretable. To achieve higher fat levels, the dog can eat cheese with each meal and/or take coconut oil in food or treats (but, it's high fat so use in moderation). Some dogs may be intolerant of cow milk/cheeses, so sheep or goat cheese could be tried. Based upon the size of the pet: Use Whole Milk Cheese & common sense ! · Less than 10 pounds -- 1/2 slice or 1/4 inch block · 10-15 pounds, 3/4 slice or 1/ 3 inch block · 15-25 pounds, 1 slice or 1/ 2 inch block · 25-40 pounds, 1.5 slices or 3/4 inch block · 40-65 pounds, 2.0 slices or 1 inch block · 65-80 pounds, 2.5 slices or 1.5 inch block · 80 + pounds, 3 – 3.5 slices or 2-2.5 inch block etc At this time, this is theoretical and being suggested in an attempt to help isoxazoline impacted dogs. “ although one poster has had no posative benefit to their affected dog Wish it was true, but it did not make a difference for our boy. He had a tea spoon of coconut oil with breakfast and ended up with seizures and nothing made it better.

lots of information via this direct link so included for those want to learn more https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10222241437138182&set=gm.1805521142979672 think this is the forum it comes from? https://www.facebook.com/groups/fb.comgroupsnexguardbravecto/ apparently some are forming a class action. the chap who lost the 10 yr old intends joining it

I suspect this will be in the news some time soon. I have learned of 7 in just the past two months. Two are puppies I bred, only 3 have survived but they only had one dose of either bravecto or nexguard. An 8th I learned is now dead. same symptoms although her owners swear they never gave her either. although not saying what they did give her as their vet has told them epilepsy and neurological damage is inherited and has told them to ask me for their money back? Interestingly none of the vets who gave the dogs they then put down when the fitting and damage eliminated quality of life have considered the drug they gave the dog is responsible or offered any refunds? half have told the heartbroken owners, for the puppies. its genetic. for the until then perfectly healthy ten your old given his first nexguard chew by the vet and had to be put down, his owner was told "sudden old age onset"? He hit the roof when I warned him when he bought his new puppy. not to give her and that I knew it is killing peoples dogs. Until then he had believed his vet. all the ones ive heard about had reactions to their first exposure to it? Apparently for some reason (some vets are speculating in the literature I've been googling , it crosses the blood brain barrier) in a small percentage with awful results as the active component is a powerful neurotoxin and there is no antidote. This lady's dog the damage has apparently been accumulative. Kelly Duggan YesftrohesesetSpoSernmedasfatyg at 1u1h:or30edme · NOT MY DOG -- Reposting for Signe Bay Dear all! We are in deep grief as we lost our dear cocker spaniel Rita one week ago. She was four, almost five years old and had no symptoms of anything before a week before, where she started urinating at night. I immediately took her to the vets, and after a couple of days researching (and the first vet saying it was just a stomach flu ) they found out that Rita suffered from LIVER CIRRHOSIS (end stage) and they told us that there sadly was nothing we could do. At this point Rita was generally fine. We went to another vet to get a second opinion, but her conclusion was the same. But why? I asked them. Rita was never ever ill, she was so healthy, never had anything. Her breeder has had cocker spaniels for 30 years, and none of her dogs died under 15 years. But she doesn’t give them oral flea medications. The vet told us that it is most likely that Rita suffered from a genetic disorder. Other vets I talked to (more holistic ones, but still veterinarians) told me, Rita had to have been poisoned. No liver would be damaged to that amount without poisoning. One vet asked if we had been using Bravecto. Bingo! Yes, unfortunately I once listened to my vet who highly recommended this drug as we were staying one summer in an area with lots and lots of fleas. We gave Rita Bravecto approx. every six months over a period of two years. I’m usually very sceptical about chemistry and drugs, and I have no idea how I could, with no suspicion, give pesticides to our dear dear Rita. I want to use this very hard lesson to bring awareness to everyone about the horrible side effects {after} Bravecto! My goal is to get it forbidden in Denmark, and I will use my rather big amount of following on IG (290K) to reveal everything about these medications. Yesterday I wrote about Rita, and I’ve received hundreds of messages from people who’ve experienced the exact same issues with their young dogs - after using Bravecto, and many of these never saw the connection before - thus none reported cases. My vet, at first, wouldn’t even report it to the Danish department of Drugs neither Merck, so I reported it myself! Then I talked to the pathologists of the University of Copenhagen, only place in Denmark where they do autopsies, and they told me that they wouldn’t be able to see WHY Rita’s liver was end stage, not even whether it was poisoned or whether it was a genetic disorder, and even IF we knew Rita was poisoned, they aren’t able to make correct analysis to address what she has been poisoned with. I believe they only make these analysis (in the spine?) in the US? Addressing that problem to my vet, that ‘how on Earth will they ever have scientifically evidence when it is NOT possible to make the correct tests??’, she understood that there might be an issue here, and she was willing to report the death of Rita as ‘suspicious’. So, I NEED YOUR HELP! I am in contact with Merck in Denmark, and they are VERY curious to see registers of reported cases. But WHERE do I find these official reported cases? I guess in the Danish Drug Department (Lægemiddelstyrelsen), but they are impossible to reach - so I might have to seek ‘access to documents’ there. And can someone please tell me what kind of tests they do around the World to see what kind of poison is the reason - IF they can see whether it is poison. Can someone please get me in contact with the people in Holland who fought to get it forbidden there?

Yes Moosmum. too true. as for the witch hunts to "eliminate" back yarders and or puppy farmers is pandering to the hate so many people like to be part of with no idea they too can be targeted as the parameters to accuse are so vague. spotted this quote from the Queen today and thought gee she doesn't realise this also applies to dog people. Peace and Goodwill For her holiday broadcast in 1957, the Queen was facing a historic moment. This was to be the first televised message, moving away from radio. She offered comfort in a changing world: "It has always been easy to hate and destroy," she said. "To build and to cherish is much more difficult. That is why we can take a pride in the new Commonwealth we are building." " the ankc has been busy tearing itself apart for over 20 years without realising nice as it feels to be part of the call to " to hate and destroy" those accused of being targeted as puppy farmers/backyard breeders. its about time to "To build and to cherish" before its too late for the rapidly declining still remaining before its too late.

Interesting conversation with a chap just now. his neighbour breeds, cavoodles, beagoodles and Borderdoodles. It is a totally dedicated puppy farm and the owner is on the best of terms with the RSPCA inspector who came to "audit" the place . Thanks to the mega prices the puppies bring in the place has the best of everything because they can afford to. so much for eliminating puppy farms.

meanwhile ANKC members are telling each other "we should not be asking a price that covered breeding our pups, not doing it for the money" I noticed three breeders were asking only 1,000 for their puppies and two told me that. the other didn't reply to my query why so cheap. A friend posted this today on faceplant. Why are we being encouraged to not value ourselves or our work or knowledge we put into our pups? Why is it believed to be proving your "ethical"? or as a friend asked, "is the first priority of being an ankc member today stupidity? It certainly is not the agenda of the x breeders and the people who want a pet are paying the insane prices. A giant ship's engine broke down and no one could repair it, so they hired a Mechanical #Engineer with over 40 years of experience. He inspected the engine very carefully, from top to bottom. After seeing everything, the engineer unloaded the bag and pulled out a small hammer. He knocked something gently. Soon, the engine came to life again. The engine has been fixed! 7 days later the engineer mentioned that the total cost of repairing the giant ship was $20,000 to the ship owner. "What?!" said the owner. "You did almost nothing. Give us a detailed bill." The answer is simple: Tap with a hammer: $2 Know where to knock and how much to knock: $19,998 The importance of appreciating one's expertise and experience...because those are the results of struggles, experiments and even tears. If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 20 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

This is a facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/475356950059066/?__cft__[0]=AZV6X4TZIQa4w3IJlXI4b6kG0WL2964O2iUWuOgH3YHPquYu_DdBjpXqsEcr0fsCpU4Mn4DL5T2n6R8dh8oWt0FmuBBO4oHF-y7exy4Kr93SkzT5yU68c90cimMlJDpKjIBIpHM4zKYKmwdR8QpHxbv5pXhRwjOaLLrkedCmciLWdTeskprE7nhmf50DmFfywsvJZ78OS6OsqP8BzhfBLWXzt2Tnk1QUwBEbnIH3PP621g&__tn__=R]-R I am hearing weekly now of dogs dying from being treated for ticks Bravecto, Nexguard and Simparica can be deadly Just one of the posts there " Here is the updated data on the reported adverse side effects from the class of drug responsible for our Benji’s suffering of seizures so debilitating that we had to put him down. These numbers are USA only, there are many more to be added from the Europe, Australia, Canada etc. you get the picture right. Please share this! If we can prevent even one more senseless death like Benji’s it’s worth it!! The trauma and pain for families and their pets is unbelievable. This has to be stopped!!

look up gumtree, the oodle x's are even going to $9000 ? unreal

the farmers have been though hell this past years between drought and fire and what does our govt and the rspca do. Rob them. https://www.theland.com.au/story/7159192/lost-cattle-in-national-parks-sent-to-sale/?cs=4941&fbclid=IwAR3ZR55nEuJjqrErVlWLXSw7Bv8f-3jbtrgeQNEOAUnPpDKYPiX-EmMBOAA

friend has the same condition, in her case there is herniating and the doctors dont want to operate. she feels like she is suffocating. very hard for you, she has no choice but to live with it and the fluid reduction treatments. good luck with your dog.

the other story doing the rounds is this one. " The old lady who owned them has dementia and her family asked the rspca to step in and help rehome the dogs, no mention of that in the rspca speil is there! Points to note: 1. They always post a photo of the worse dog - the dog pictured does not look to be in a drastic mess! 2. "A decision will be made in 60 days whether to prosecute the owner" .. prosecute her for what?! She is old and unwell FFS, the family asked for help and the dogs were surrendered. If she is prosecuted it goes against all the guidelines the rspca must follow when dealing with these types of cases. " RSPCA NSW 2m1tSpofnsofredshd · RSPCA NSW yesterday seized 79 dogs from a breeding establishment located in Central West New South Wales following reports of alleged breaches to the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1979. Two RSPCA NSW inspectors executed a search warrant at the property at 8 a.m. on Wednesday 24 February 2021. Due to the size of the operation, six inspectors, two RSPCA NSW veterinarians and two animal transport officers attended the property and assessed the animals. The inspectors seized 79 dogs and puppies requiring varying degrees of veterinary treatment into RSPCA NSW custody. All animals were admitted into care at RSPCA veterinary hospitals by 5.15 a.m. this morning, Thursday 25 February 2021. The investigation is ongoing. A decision to lay charges against the person of interest will be made within 60 days. " " but why would they when the family realised there was a problem and sought help from the -supposed- caring charity in order to ensure the animals had the best chance of being suitably rehomed. Bearing in mind that is a lot of dogs to rehome if the family tried to do it themselves, obviously they were overwhelmed at the prospect and sought help as per the process outlined on the rspca website. I don't know the exact wording but l have read on their website something along the lines of ... 'if sickness or other factors means you can't care for your animals properly, contact us, we can help'. "

well no one else has shared it . " OMG, look at this! Unbelievable! Pawn off puppies and kittens with ringworm to foster carers so you don't have to deal with treating them They more than likely got ringworm in your shelter, like Roxy the Borzoi did Asking if foster carers have a LAUNDRY where they can keep the puppies and/or kittens! How does this fit in with the Standards and Guidelines that you are applying to all dog and cat breeders?" "Our Sydney Shelter is currently looking for some very special foster carers to look after some of our more vulnerable residents.Ringworm (a fungal infection similar to athletes foot) is a common but very treatable illness. Regular cleaning, ongoing support and advice about fostering animals with ringworm will be provided to you as a foster carer.Fostering ringworm animals is recommended for people who meet the below criteria:• do you have no children?• do you have a tiled room that you can keep animals in (specifically puppies or kittens) that is easy to clean, such as a bathroom or laundry?• are you confident or willing to learn how to administer medication or bath kittens?• can you commit to fostering for approximately 8 weeks?If you fit the criteria and believe you can assist please sign up to be a foster carer on our website, when choosing what categories you can assist with make sure you check the box that says 'Ringworm' http://bit.ly/3pGCgAL " Interesting in the light that if you bred them you would be charged in line with the current Audit raids?

THE REAL PROBLEM every dog, every situation is different. these animal rights nutters trying (and succeeding now) to force everyone to fit their ideas of best practice legislation they are demanding of the pollies from people who dont even believe in breeding any domestic animals in the first place is beyond me? The pollies are not even listening to the real reproduction vets first?

thanks. agree with you. Bluie was from (wait for it) A litter of ten! Chihuahua puppies, her mum Winnifred was like a seedless watermelon with legs barely capable of standing with the weight. I rang Nancy freaking out at her size, i used to look after her brood girls after she had her heart attack until she was recovered more. but Winifred every instinct was warning me this was going to be a potential disaster delivery. Took her to Nancy and she agreed so we went to Marilyn Gill. she went into labour but no puppies were moving. As I suspected she was too full of puppies to push normally so one normally self whelper too packed to push ended up needing a ceaser and she raised them all. I took her home and looked after them and her as Nancy was still too unwell yet. the docs said 1/3rd of her heart had died. they gave her 3 months to live. stubborn old girl lived another 5 or was it 7? and dementia won the battle . Think Nancy Gate was an amazing lady. My friend since I was a teen. So although I kept Bluie I was terrified she would emulate her mum some day . so it was a complete mystery why she stuck to singletons all her breeding life. but frankly I didn't mind, she had no trouble whelping and they were stunners every one of them.

the stupidity is the fact that the owner of a singleton producer is hamstrung on now many puppies she is allowed to have. my Bluie had 8 pups before she finally had a daughter to continue her line. today thanks to the thought police she would never have been born. Meanwhile the owners of 15 litter pups has 120 pups to choose from. When I raised this anomaly the owners who have the choice of over 100 pups told me I "should accept what nature gave you". as for the what I consider fools who think they should only breed one or at most 2 litters to choose for the next generation are not breeders. you need to have a half decent number to select from to maintain not only the gene pool but genetic diversity. but That's not politically correct. so best practice goes out the window. as for the education level of vets today left me not impressed had a litter with prentation problems so needed a ceaser. lovely puppies all 7, what does she say? "Poor mum, they will suck the life out of her." If she truely believed that? Why was I not offered a feeding chart to ensure she was adequately fed for goodness sakes? I told her she will gain weight , she will have go on a diet after they are weaned. She told me I "will learn that is not the case, the puppies WILL suck the life out of her" I made a point of taking them back so she could see for herself. she was not a just out of uni newbie vet? This is not acceptable no wonder so many laws when even modern day vets do not know our basic management job?

We do need to be able to make our own decisions. based on circumstances. the real problem has become this push by politicians to legislated our right to make decisions based on our individual circumstances. for example arbitrarily deciding how many litters you may breed with nothing to differentiate between a 1 pup "litter" and 15 pup "litter"

Please dont be chased away. Its people NOT questioning the mess the show breeders are happy with that created the disasters featured on Pedigree Dogs Exposed. Hugs. you raised valid points. the idiots shoot the messenger, something even the King of Persia refused to do no matter how bad the news.

already happening in 1978 when I bought my first chihuahua. My brother and I were total newbies, saw an add in telegraph. Went to elfreda kennels and were blown away by the amazing facilities she and her husband had built. huge shed. office. whelping area, storage area on right. on the left runs that went outside under covered area. not only bird netted even mozzie netted! None of her bitches were bred from again if they needed a caesarean, unless the cause was a malpresented pup. her aim from the outset was all self whelping only. She explained she loved her dogs so much. she and her husband decided why not make them their business so they could be with them every day. Think she said she made on average $40,000 a year. no idea what that would equate to today. when I showed my new pup to my friend Nancy Gate she was horrified I had bought her from a puppy farmer. Yep. we have to get rid of puppy farmers was going in 1978. Although it wasn't until some time after 1980, both Nancy and Betty Stepkovitch began telling me how "we have to get rid of the backyard breeders, they are ruining the reputation of the RNSWCC." Just sat there staring at them. Then asked. "what do you think is outside your back door? How could you say something so silly? Are you really backing something that applies to every one of you?" They could not understand my meaning. Well we all know how well that's gone. along with how many tens of thousands less members and ankc dogs less in existence now? Even as early as the day I bought Genie, and I began going to shows with Nancy. Who incidentally was quite surprised at the quality of our two puppy farm puppies. I noticed many judges were not following the Chihuahua Standard. It had a sentence "in the case of equal quality, the more diminutive preferred" I commented to both Nancy and Betty. So many judges are not even bothering with the "case of equal quality" they dont even look at anything but the "more diminutive preferred" hence so many of Nancy and Betty's champions were so small they could only whelp by caesarean. Neither saw this as a problem. well until when I began breeding Genie and saw how easily she whelped. Phill had taught me to select the puppy with the widest pelvic bones for ease of delivery. Works just as well with cattle too. anyway I had already noticed my neighbour had an English bulldog that could not deliver except by cesear. As for mothering ability. well she sure had none of that. If she didn't keep them away from their mum and bottle feed them they would all be dead by morning. I pointed out to both Betty and Nancy this is really bad practice. any newbie who buys a daughter of these mums will die if they dont know and dont get her to a vet in time? Interestingly after Pedigree dogs Exposed was released. the RNSWCC and I suspect all branches of the ankc deleted the section "in the case of equal quality, the more diminutive preferred" from the standard. so something was achieved even if only a small gain. I know my thinking at the time was such a pity they couldn't clean up their act before the peta mob shamed them into it.

There is a vet at Lane Cove, they have been curing Non Hughson's Lymphoma for over a decade now using nano cells from Engeneic no idea the cost sorry.

I agree with some of your points certainly. as for " The need for formal health testing is, in part, testimony to many generations of breeding pedigree dogs without due regard to health. " is a bit foolish. PRA is recessive so you can have multiple generations over decades and never see it. BUT, the day you or someone has a C pup that goes blind before old age or accident turns up is pretty distressing. PLL affected go blind far earlier. I know I thought the lines mine came from were free of both. When the dna profiling became available. decided to get mine done to ensure what I believed was correct. Pretty amazed to discover half were B for PRA . although fortunately all were clear for PLL. Met a guy this weekend all his farm breds have gone blind young, he didnt even know it could be tested for. I think you were correct, there are few commercial puppy farms, that is until the POCTA inspections were instituted, now everyone inspected and passed is by definition a puppy farm. Which really is confusing. If you are passed then you are now officially a puppy farm. The ankc membership is extorted to eliminate any and all puppy farms from being members.. So doomed if you dont pass as the inspectors can seize your dogs. Dooms if you pass as your fellow members will be baying for your resignation or termination of your membership? The other way to gain brownie points is to be a dead end kennel and only sell on limit register, Thus ensuring less and less available for the gene pool and no new members so shrinking the ankc membership. Also Brownie points for selling your puppies for less than how much it cost to breed and raise them. thus ensuring only the independently wealthy can remain ankc to actually breed. googling gumtree for example, even purebred non ankc puppies are selling for more than even a main register ankc pup? What staggers me is yes they are breeders registered with alternate registers. No they are not dna profiled. Seems the only difference between the new registers is they dont hold shows? Its amazing to the oldies like me to see this happening? I have no solutions, I doubt the members will cease working to eliminate anyone accused of being a puppy farmer. Its too entrenched now.

having grew up with farmers, their mentality I found is very different to the dog world when I joined the ankc. Although the majority were wonderful people, I was surprised by even my best friends found nothing wrong with generations of ceasearan only mums. Long lived is certainly treasured in my favourite breed , Poll shorthorn. 20 to 27 is not unusual. one famous girl produced 25 calves without a miss . We have a girl 30. Daugher of our girl Four Ways Tonia, reserves champion at sydney royal 1981. we had Tonia for 22 years. Suspect we lost her to snake bite. one of my favourite heifers, I named her Rawhide after the Clint Eastwood series. remember they used to have such spectacular marked cattle in the rawhide tv series herd. although they were texas longhorns not poll shorthorns. love the variety in shorthorns. we never have to "muster" ours. we just sing out "come on" and they came running to follow us. this was taken at Brian Cromies where we agisted them until we bought our own place. Gee he couldn't believe his eyes when we first called them to follow us into the yards to tattoo the calves that day.

farmers v dog people I realise what im about to say is not going to make me any friends. But look at the bright side, I was not game to ask publicly in 1979. I watched the demonising of “puppy farmers” from the inception of the extortion to eliminate puppy farmers from the ANKC ranks. I wondered then at the choice of words. A farmer would never continue to breed from a female “farm” animal, if she could not deliver naturally. A farmer would never continue to breed from a female “farm” animal, if it had little to no maternal instincts. A farmer would not continue the lines of any female lacking in the above. Why? Because a FARMER knows very well that if a vet was not near to hand both she and her progeny could and probably will die otherwise. Why continue a line that cannot survive without veterinary intervention when the selection for self delivery and excellent mothering instincts ensure survival of both the mother and the progeny? In the wild such faulty lines die out anyway. A good farmer ensures the continuation of these genes. What does the show scene breeders do without a thought to the future of any pup born of caesarean only lines and poor maternal instinct mothers? They pay the vet to save the puppies, hand feed when mum won’t or in some lines doesn’t even have enough milk to feed them. One of my friends had generations of caesarean only bitches. Another handfed her Pom puppies from day 3 to 7 as her line did not produce milk after the first week. Whatever happened to the mentality of the show breeders that they lost sight of selecting for two such important traits in any breed or species? Then have the hide to brand anyone they want eliminated from the ANKC as puppy “farmers”. What an insult to what a farmer really stands for. Shows how far the show scene has strayed far from the parameters of what is held to be so important for the welfare and lives of the animals in the care of real farmers. It did not take me long to realise, when I bought my first ANKC pup, did I want to breed sound, self whelping, high maternal instinct lines. Or ignore what I knew was vitally important component of the genetics that never gets a mention in any of the dog breeds printed standard of excellence? I admit there is one “farm” sector that does not worry about caesarean’s. The Belgium Blue, many studs the caesarean percentage is from 80 to 90 percent of calving’s. Due to the presence of the double muscling gene. This is part of the breed standard of purebred Murray Grey cattle, but same for just about every breed of cattle as ability to reproduce normally is considered as high a priority as conformation, unlike what has happened to so many dog breeds. “Purebred (PB) Animals should be of the following standard. General appearance – All animals should be well balanced with length, width, spring of rib and smoothness. Undue deposits of fat must be avoided. Animals must have the ability to walk freely. Bulls should be masculine with breed character and capable of natural service and reproduction. Females should be feminine with breed character, prolific and able to rear their progeny” A fact even as early as 1979 I realised the dog world had moved away from with little regard to the consequences. Leaving them wide open to the resulting disaster that finally saw the screening of “Pedigree Dogs Exposed.” Little progress seems to have done towards addressing that problem. Instead, focussing on eliminating “puppy farmers” as if eliminating anyone so branded will clean up the reputation of the remaining membership. As if that is going to deflect the real elephant in the room desperately needing to be addressed?

Well at the produce store today was a puppies for sale . mum lab, dad husky x kelpie.. ONLY $1,000 each? half are already sold? could not believe it but it was so? well same price to buy a buy a main register ankc registered cattledog pup anyway from some kennels

Well the chap who had to pay 3000 has been using the same vet for 30 years and sure is not happy. they seem to have trippled in price over a pretty short period from what I've heard and when u need a ceaser u dont tend to have much wiggle room for negotiating

The problem is, the "crazy prices" are not just the pups. vets prices are going up and up too. Friend just paid $3,000 for a ceaser. My puppy food is now $127 a bag and fresh meat is not going down any day soon. Neither are vaccinations or microchipping. Its the incomming costs are going up inexorably too. The reason I stopped breeding my horses. I could get far more income from my cows and you sell your calves before mum has the next one. so five years of income from your cow. Yet horse people want it 5 years old, broken in ready to ride and thought 1500 was a fair price? it costs more than that to get them going under saddle? So even though they were topping State and National in performance my cows were returning $5000 over the same period. One of my mares would have 4 of her foals eating the same feed as one cow for each year they grew to 5 years. so financially hubby said. nothing foals until the last foal is sold. Had to agree. So one foal in 5 years for offers of $1500. I am hopeless at math but even I can see that's no go. Its financial suicide to supply horse riders for below the cost of production ditto for puppies, but then ankc members have been extorted to sell their puppies for below the cost of production for quite a few years now to show how "ethical and responsible" they are. It also eliminates the pensioners whose "pin money" from their puppies supplemented their income, who were the back bone of the ankc, (the ANKC did a survey which proved this fact) as they were the majority of long term members. But then they too was considered expendable in the rush to prove ankc members were not supplying puppies to people who would dump them and end up in the pounds. To be "ethical and responsible" you also need to be financially independent and can afford to breed a litter at a loss. As one old long time member asked me not that long ago. who like me is considering retirement from breeding. "do you get the feeling the first priority for being an ankc member these days is stupidity?" culling the membership of all but the independently wealthy does not automatically select for breeding excellence But that is where things seem to have gone. I did ask does your doctor refuse to bill you enough to cover his outgoings to be "ethical and responsible" Do you go to work and tell your boss your "ethical and responsible" and dont need a wage to cover food and home? Why is your time caring and feeding your puppies and parents worth nothing? Plenty of reasons why you are worth nothing.. well we are continually assured its the gold standard of "ethical and responsible"