Training Talk Thread

[Ptolomy]

Kathq my boy also goes out and stands over the scent articles - he only saves it for trials though, not in training! Sometimes he will look at me, other times he will just stare off into space. I will not give another fetch command and I have also found he is better if I don't look at him, not that he can tell because I usually have sunglasses on.

I would suggest that if metal is the issue - then change your order and do wood or leather first. I have found playing hand touches or leg weaves before scent has helped. In training throwing food behind you as they pick up the article and head back towards you also helps - it makes them in more of a hurry to find it and bring it back.

I have to be honest and say I am still not sure why he does it though. I tend to think stress and the fact that he hasn't been rewarded.

As an after thought I would also have to say that in your first trial - if she had shut down that much - I would have not been hanging around trying to repair things - I would have been out of there, Coco back in the car, me up to the canteen to buy a gin/coffee and for us to both have time to think about it. I would have got her out afterwards and done a scent article or a change of positions and rewarded it. Negative body language can do a lot of damage on a soft dog.

and after thought number 2 - I think if you were having to use NRM's in a trial - it would be another reason to pull her.

afer thought number 3 - UD is character building, but it sucks!

HUgs to you......

Edited April 24, 2011 by Ptolomy

[Tassie]

I feel for you kathq! My first BC boy Sam used to do the same thing - stand over the correct article and look worried. Luci Ellem from NSW was judging us one day - and after waiting a little while said "Help me mummy, I need my sucky rug"! She was sooooo right Her advice was not to help him at all - just ignore it in the ring. And it was a ring thing - so I agree with Ptolomy - very likely nerves - his and mine. And agree about the leg weaves etc. - if I could get Sam barking mad going out to the articles, he was likely to have enough oomph to bring it back - he knew which one was correct - would usually indicate it - sometimes even bring it part of the way back.

Sounds like you're on the right track with doing the SB in long grass, and really making sure she's using her nose.

[kathq]

Thanks for the help guys, makes sense.

Have been out again today and did a double run through ensuring all scent work was done in long grass. Conditions were a little challenging with a very strong wind blowing but she used her nose properly all of the time none of this mad running about just looking. And no looking to me for help on the articles so maybe it was all a blip in the scheme of things for her and just a major melt down for me.

[Ptolomy]

Help - I would like some suggestions on how to teach a drop on recall. All my dogs do the same thing - obviously because they have all been taught the same way They tend to start dropping when I give the command and lower their body over their next 3-4 steps before finally dropping, they do come in at a rate of knots, but this is no excuse .........and I don't like it.

So fire away.......

I have 5 days to teach it

[ness]

Hmm Ptolomy what about teaching a drop on a target (but hesitate to suggest that as it might kill your UDX sendaway teaching method). I taught Kenz to drop on a mouse pad and then placed that between me and her. I haven't touched on a DOR in ages but its one idea that I tried. Another suggestion I watched on a youtube clip was place a bar on the ground and have the dog drop behind the bar.

Edited April 26, 2011 by ness

[xena98]

Kathq my boy also goes out and stands over the scent articles - he only saves it for trials though, not in training! Sometimes he will look at me, other times he will just stare off into space. I will not give another fetch command and I have also found he is better if I don't look at him, not that he can tell because I usually have sunglasses on.

I would suggest that if metal is the issue - then change your order and do wood or leather first. I have found playing hand touches or leg weaves before scent has helped. In training throwing food behind you as they pick up the article and head back towards you also helps - it makes them in more of a hurry to find it and bring it back.

I have to be honest and say I am still not sure why he does it though. I tend to think stress and the fact that he hasn't been rewarded.

As an after thought I would also have to say that in your first trial - if she had shut down that much - I would have not been hanging around trying to repair things - I would have been out of there, Coco back in the car, me up to the canteen to buy a gin/coffee and for us to both have time to think about it. I would have got her out afterwards and done a scent article or a change of positions and rewarded it. Negative body language can do a lot of damage on a soft dog.

and after thought number 2 - I think if you were having to use NRM's in a trial - it would be another reason to pull her.

afer thought number 3 - UD is character building, but it sucks!

HUgs to you......

Hey Ptolomy what do you do when your dog refuses to do hand touches when you do SD but does it every where else

[Ptolomy]

Interesting question Xena98 and I can answer this one because in Ciders 2nd novice trial she shut down between exercises (not sure if you have seen the vid or not), wouldn't come near me, wouldn't play hand touches and didn't want to be patted, so I resorted to what she knew best and had been heavily rewarded - heeling between exercises.

Hand touches is not something that in itself is naturally rewarding for a dog. Hand touches are usually taught by us to use between exercises and are whats called a secondary reinforcer. Unfortunately, and I am guilty, that once a secondary reinforcer has been learnt by the dog, we all tend to stop rewarding them in training, so we ask for a hand touch, the dog does it and we move on - and very quickly, the secondary reinforcer in a trial, loses its value.

After Ciders second trial - the one I described above. I spent the week rewarding patting, hand touches, and pushing her away in training. I probably went overboard, but it did the trick and her trial on the weekend, she was much more confortable in playing between the exercises.

So I suggest before your next trial, make an effort to reward whatever secondary reinforcer you are going to use a couple of times at each training session, not just one piece of food, but lots, and see what happens after seekback next time.

Hmm does this make sense??

[RubyStar]

I have 5 days to teach it

Soggy debuting in Open this weekend??

Can't help... you know I have a dodgy DOR x 2... and currently I'm just happy if they actually drop

[Ptolomy]

Hmm Ptolomy what about teaching a drop on a target (but hesitate to suggest that as it might kill your UDX sendaway teaching method). I taught Kenz to drop on a mouse pad and then placed that between me and her. I haven't touched on a DOR in ages but its one idea that I tried. Another suggestion I watched on a youtube clip was place a bar on the ground and have the dog drop behind the bar.

HMmm I don't have my speakers connected up, so I could only watch the video and not listen to what she was saying. I used a bar on the ground with Lara - after she had already been taught the DOR and she was running on. I have to be honest and say I don't think I really like the method as you remove the bar and the problem came back again.

[caffy]

Help - I would like some suggestions on how to teach a drop on recall. All my dogs do the same thing - obviously because they have all been taught the same way They tend to start dropping when I give the command and lower their body over their next 3-4 steps before finally dropping, they do come in at a rate of knots, but this is no excuse .........and I don't like it.

So fire away.......

I have 5 days to teach it

What do you want? An instant splat??

[JulesP]

Help - I would like some suggestions on how to teach a drop on recall. All my dogs do the same thing - obviously because they have all been taught the same way They tend to start dropping when I give the command and lower their body over their next 3-4 steps before finally dropping, they do come in at a rate of knots, but this is no excuse .........and I don't like it.

So fire away.......

I have 5 days to teach it

Buy a Border Collie

[xena98]

It was in the scent discrimination shall try that cause in every other exercise she is a nut case but soon we get to that exercise she shuts down hehehe I have three days to get it sorted lol

Interesting question Xena98 and I can answer this one because in Ciders 2nd novice trial she shut down between exercises (not sure if you have seen the vid or not), wouldn't come near me, wouldn't play hand touches and didn't want to be patted, so I resorted to what she knew best and had been heavily rewarded - heeling between exercises.

Hand touches is not something that in itself is naturally rewarding for a dog. Hand touches are usually taught by us to use between exercises and are whats called a secondary reinforcer. Unfortunately, and I am guilty, that once a secondary reinforcer has been learnt by the dog, we all tend to stop rewarding them in training, so we ask for a hand touch, the dog does it and we move on - and very quickly, the secondary reinforcer in a trial, loses its value.

After Ciders second trial - the one I described above. I spent the week rewarding patting, hand touches, and pushing her away in training. I probably went overboard, but it did the trick and her trial on the weekend, she was much more confortable in playing between the exercises.

So I suggest before your next trial, make an effort to reward whatever secondary reinforcer you are going to use a couple of times at each training session, not just one piece of food, but lots, and see what happens after seekback next time.

Hmm does this make sense??

[RubyStar]

Help - I would like some suggestions on how to teach a drop on recall. All my dogs do the same thing - obviously because they have all been taught the same way They tend to start dropping when I give the command and lower their body over their next 3-4 steps before finally dropping, they do come in at a rate of knots, but this is no excuse .........and I don't like it.

So fire away.......

I have 5 days to teach it

What do you want? An instant splat??

I love the way Brookie does it, stops on the spot and just goes down. I've got a serial stepper in Ruby, and if Millie is in the right mood, she skids into her down that I swear she would end up with grass burns on her belly! 101 ways to do a DOR, as written by our dogs!

[Ptolomy]

Help - I would like some

I have 5 days to teach it

What do you want? An instant splat??

YEP - is that asking for too much???

Yep I like Brookies DOR too - he comes in fast and then stops and does a fold back drop. Hmm maybe I need to watch what she is going to do with Zac and copy.

Off to email Deb to suggest she teaches Zac a DOR in the next 5 days.......

Edited April 26, 2011 by Ptolomy

[caffy]

Help - I would like some

I have 5 days to teach it

What do you want? An instant splat??

YEP - is that asking for too much???

Not at all

I have a dog that splats

If you're there tomorrow, will give you a hand.

[Ptolomy]

Not at all

I have a dog that splats

If you're there tomorrow, will give you a hand.

Thank you Saint Caffy - do I need to point out tomorrow I will only have 4 days to get a splat ???

Do I need to bring anything..................like a shotgun??????

[caffy]

Not at all

I have a dog that splats

If you're there tomorrow, will give you a hand.

Thank you Saint Caffy - do I need to point out tomorrow I will only have 4 days to get a splat ???

Do I need to bring anything..................like a shotgun??????

No shotgun...just a nice, quick foldback drop.

Shhh, still haven't taught Snazzy a DOR, but we like to keep him in a state of surprise

[RubyStar]

Not at all

I have a dog that splats

If you're there tomorrow, will give you a hand.

Thank you Saint Caffy - do I need to point out tomorrow I will only have 4 days to get a splat ???

Do I need to bring anything..................like a shotgun??????

No shotgun...just a nice, quick foldback drop.

Shhh, still haven't taught Snazzy a DOR, but we like to keep him in a state of surprise

Share the knowledge, please Oh wait, we need a snappy foldback drop first... I have some homework to do

[Ptolomy]

Shhh, still haven't taught Snazzy a DOR, but we like to keep him in a state of surprise

and you have 2 beautiful open passes - so does that mean I am in with some hope for 5 days time .......

UM what I haven't said is that I also don't have a retrieve over the jump or a change of positions..........

and last of all........

No OOS sit or down stay

[RubyStar]

Or a spare handler when you get through to stays We need rent-a-handler!