Training Talk Thread

[murve]

thats right Wuffles, it is done in Novice class & it is advised when practicing the Recall & Finish, do them separate or else the dog might start to anticipate Recall/finish & do them together, as my dog did this

Ben & Jerry, yes on the Recall when the dog has come to you & sits in front the judge will give you the command "Finish of Exercise" :D

[kathq]

Have had the best training weekend! Both this morning and yesterday morning out with the sparrows and Coco is working like an old hand. Aging our tracks up to an hour now and have introduced acute turns and she's just acting like it's all old hat. :) Now if she can make the transition from known to unknown tracklayer (which is a little hard to train for when you are the one laying your own tracks) we will be having a really good season

Not really asking for much am I? Just so happy with the pocket rocket today.

[Tassie]

Have had the best training weekend! Both this morning and yesterday morning out with the sparrows and Coco is working like an old hand. Aging our tracks up to an hour now and have introduced acute turns and she's just acting like it's all old hat. :) Now if she can make the transition from known to unknown tracklayer (which is a little hard to train for when you are the one laying your own tracks) we will be having a really good season

Not really asking for much am I? Just so happy with the pocket rocket today.

Sounds really good.

You know, from my experience, there won't be a huge problem transitioning to an unknown tracklayer. Rory's Test 1 was only the second time he'd ever tracked anyone but me (and the first time was a hot 50 m or so track :laugh: ). His only problem was that he really wasn't expecting to find a body rolled up in a swag behind some bushes at the end of the track he'd followed so well - he hauled off as he spotted the 'body' and gave his best Rotti impersonation bark "Did you guys know there's a BODY here" - had to reassure him that it was quite OK really, and he could go see what the body was. Luckily, the tracklayer knew his name, and had his treat ready!

ETA - oh, and for both his

knowns' - he'd only met the 'known' person that morning, for abouit 5 minutes

Edited May 20, 2012 by Tassie

[ness]

Mine have tracked new people most weeks (or at least rarely the same person consecutively) and have no real issues. There are some people they are less inclined to track but its more a problem with my nervy girl.

[RubyStar]

Hi guys, just wondering what you think is the best thing to do if you have been placed next to a dog that there is a dislike towards (and in return) for obedience stays?

Do you contact trial secretary in advance (1.5 weeks before trial) and plead your case? Do you ask the judge on the day to be moved for stays and state why? Or just sigh at the unfortunate position you've been placed in again and withdraw?

Thanks for your opinions! :)

Edited June 6, 2012 by RubyStar

[ness]

I would do ring work and withdraw from stays (thats if the other dog is on a pass and still does stays). If the dog isn't on a pass and does stays and I was on a pass I would be ropeable and probably have a word or three to the judge .

ETA. I guess the context of what the "dislike" was and what the reaction of the dogs to it might be. Is it mutual or is one the main instigator?

?

Edited June 6, 2012 by ness

[RubyStar]

The reaction is a whole lotta noise and a situation I wouldn't want to see progress especially when we are talking OOS stays. One of these dogs does stays regardless of ring outcome, and this dog is notorious for blowing the stays anyway.

The situation won't arise if the other dog fails ringwork as they don't do stays when they fail ringwork, but it presents a problem if they are on a pass.

Edited June 6, 2012 by RubyStar

[ness]

Hmm if the dog fails ring work and still goes to do stays but your on a pass can you ask the judge re a set of qualifying and non-qualifying stays?? Obviously explaining the issue between the dogs and be prepared to walk away from stays if you don't get a satisfactory resolution with the judge in question.

I figure if you remain polite and civil about it and don't get the judge off-side depending on the judge it might be resolved.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ness

[RubyStar]

Would you do that even if the total number of entries in this class is low?

[ness]

Well WA have precedent for qualifying and non-qualifying stays so it does already exist or has in the past. I am not sure depending on how much "noise" and if the other dog was unreliable with stays I'd be happy to leave my dog there whether it was at the far end of a group of dogs or not especially when there aren't many dogs entered. Even 2 or 3 dogs in between with dogs who have serious issues with each other I might not be happy about.

[RubyStar]

When's the next rule change?

First suggestion - not allowed to proceed to group stays unless on a pass.

Second and preferred option - abolish stays!!!!

[ness]

the only one time I have done stays when I haven't been on a pass is a UD trial where I happened to miss out on a quallie by 1 frigging point. Passed all the exercises and thought given I rarely did stays in practice and we had never got through to stays because we always failed so much (and knowing all the other dogs were stable and mine was normally fairly reliable) I thought I better make sure we had UD stays under our belt in case she ever managed to pass and keep enough points. Ness did manage to complete stays and that was the closest we came to passing UD .

[RubyStar]

I know where you're coming from. Ruby is yet to do a set of UD stays. I don't want to put her in them unless she's on a pass, but I know that if we ever get a pass in ringwork, she is very likely to fail the stays! But regardless, I won't put her in them. Don't want to risk her messing a passing dog up. Not that she has ever approached another dog in stays, all she does is change her position, but I am afraid of her getting all waggy in the group SFE which could possibly upset other dogs.

[wuffles]

I would also do the ringwork and pull out of the stays if the dog was still going to be next to me. Depending on the circumstances and who the other person was, I might have a word to them as politely as possible and see what happens. To be honest, if a qualifying dog pulls out of stays here the judge would be asking why so it might become public anyway. I have a nervy dog so it's not worth putting her in with dogs I know she's not comfortable with (or ones I'm not comfortable with, for that matter).

I put Ava in stays once when she was NQ because I had nothing good to say about her ring performance, so I thought stays might give her an opportunity to get rewarded. She did them perfectly.

After having extremely reliable stays all the way through CCD, Novice and our first Open passes (only every broken once in CCD) we now have completely broken stays. She broke BOTH stays at our last trial - I was so embarrassed - she followed me as I walked away on both (then sat back down in the sit stay for the whole 3 minutes, and dropped in the drop stay for the whole 5 minutes). I think I know what has caused it and it is very, very hard to fix

[wuffles]

Once I posted that I realised I have seriously lost all motivation for obedience training because of the stay issue, as well as a broader issue we've had lately which is stress/motivation in the ring -- and that is sad. Any ideas to help bring the fun back for both of us? I have started some UD training but am not really finding that particularly exciting because I still have the "issues" in the back of my mind.

[megan_]

Once I posted that I realised I have seriously lost all motivation for obedience training because of the stay issue, as well as a broader issue we've had lately which is stress/motivation in the ring -- and that is sad. Any ideas to help bring the fun back for both of us? I have started some UD training but am not really finding that particularly exciting because I still have the "issues" in the back of my mind.

Stop going to trial and just have some fun with her? Play etc and don;t worry over the technicalities (eg reward for 80%, not just 100%), the focus being on getting her motivated, not getting everything right.

This is what Uta Bindel does, because she said that no matter how much she tries to relax, she's always going to act differnet on competition day:

Once the fun is back, start "acting" like you're in the ring bit by bit during your super-fun training sessions(stand a bit stiff etc). Still reward her lots and play lots so that she knows "My owner acts all nervous" = "we have lots of fun". Build that up bit by bit.

[ness]

Wuffles given Ava is having soreness issues with her hind end do you think they could be impacting on her ability to do stays? I know that has been my constant battle with Kenz and stays. Ptolomy will tell you similar about Scoota having issues with stays (particularly the sit stay) when he is sore.

:laugh: RS I still think 169 in UD and passing every exercise is a pretty darn good reason to do stays . Pity the judge couldn't have found me one more point .

Edited June 6, 2012 by ness

[Tassie]

That's a bummer, wuffles. But I'd agree with the ideas megan has given - lots of play - and thank goodness for Rally. And DWD?

On the stays issue ..... as ness knows - I've got the dog who might disturb others - either to play, or for some less pleasant motive. And I don't like to think what might happen if a dog came to stand over him. So I don't do trial stays yet, whatever his ringwork has been like. Does cause some angst in judges when, as has been the case recently in Novice, he's on a high 180s /low 190s score. But I'm not going to take chances on his causing a problem or messing up another dog. I probably shouldn't really have himn in the ring at all - but he loves to work, and he's quite capable of performing really nicely.

So I'm with you RS - let's get rid of group stays. :laugh:

[wuffles]

Thanks megan. Our training is always very play oriented but not even real motivation for that at the moment! I do some brief training sessions a few times a week (ranging from just some 2 food game up to a full exercise) and she's 100% into it - until other people/dogs are involved when she is getting stressed. She is getting her walks and socialisation and cuddles on the couch and loves all that, so it's probably not such a big deal that I'm not doing much training wise at the moment :)

To put some context around it, I'm pretty sure our issues are relating to stress which causes distraction, and drops her motivation. She's started to worry about people walking past, dogs nearby, even distant noises, which have never worried her before. She's very worried about people raising their voices to their own dogs, or even in conversation to each other and I'm pretty sure this is one of the causes.

ness nope it doesn't make sense that soreness is the problem. She's having no issues in the individual exercises (SFE, recall, COP) and I can't replicate the issue with individual stays -- just in the group. I am quite certain it's the "group" environment causing the issues.

When she is happy she works beautifully - with scores in the high 190s. It's the happiness I am after, the scores just come with it :)

[OSoSwift]

I would pull out even if I was on a pass.

When I had the Dobes, my girls was bomb proof, for her to move there would have to had been a dog really have a go or stand over her. If that happened then I would pretty much be assured that she would retaliate and it would not have been a very nice outcome at all. Once there was a very reactice GSD that was walking past with it's owner and lunged across the owner towards my Dobe who was luckily looking away. Aparently the dog was reknowned for moving and good luck more than good management meant there had been no fights. I decided pass or not if she was next to us I was pulling mine.

She wasn't on a pass, did the stays anyway (luckily 4 dogs down) got up and stood over a dog - who luckily completely ignored her, The GSD was looking for a fight. I was happy that had I been next to her I would have pulled as had she done that to my Dobe there would have been a fight.

With the WHippets I am even more aware. They are very soft and if a dog did that they would take a fair bit of training to get them confident. They are solid in their stays but I would expect them or want them to stay solid if a dog stood over them to pick a fight, they would get injured too easily. If a dog did stand over them to pick a fight or wack them for a play I would report it and ask the judge nicely for the offending dog to be removed, stays re-judged.

I figure one trial (or one set of stays) is not work the potential stress for the dog or myself should something like this occur. OUt of sight stays, not way would I go int here unless they were waayyy down the end.

In a trial in Perth a sweet little Sheltie saw Lewis next to him - Lewis is a complete snob and ONLY talks to Whippets. This little guy had a waggy tail and was looking at Lewis, not moving, but you could see he was itching for a play. Lewis got the snobbiest and slightly worried look and his face and slowly and deliberately looked away. He peaked a couple of times to be horrified to see the Sheltie STILL looking at him - dog forbid.