So Angry

[nickojoy]

It would have been cheaper for me to leave them there for 14 days then get a friend to buy them. Then the council would not had received my upto date details and therefore could not fine me from another state.

I'm sure they'd appreciate being left at the pound for 14 days just to save you money Hopefully that was a joke.

It was a joke, but you can see why we have so many dogs in our pounds being killed day because of these fines.

The fines arrive after the dogs are released, the owners pay the impound fees at the time of collection, so that arguement doesn't wash with me.

That's why I was frantic all night looking everywhere for them, ringing the vets in the area and trying to get the after hours number for the ranger. Doing up lost posters and taking the day off work to search for them. Its all in my lost thread.

Funny thing was, in the 3 page letter that the council sent with these fines, the dogs were dropped off at my vet, and I rang the vet 3 times that night and they said they hadn't been handed in to them, and the next day I also rang at 730am, but the ranger had picked the dogs up from them.

[justin19801]

Despite some holier than thou responses these are absurd. The fines are just revenue raisers. Dogs get out, are let out etc. Accidents happen. Unless you are a habitual offender you should get a warning. There is an anti-dog movement in this country and this is one of the ways they enforce their views. Mandatory microchipping is not about controlling dogs but about controlling you.

[Ashanali]

Years ago I had dogs that were let out by nasty neighbours... repeatedly.

The first time it happened, the dogs rego had just lapsed so I had to pay the impoundment fee and registration then about $500 worth of fines for having dogs at large.

Did I argue it? Nope. It was my oversight that the dogs weren't registered and yes, they were wandering. The council don't know me from a bar of soap and they have no idea if I'm a good dog owner or not.

Lucky for me after a few more times of this happening and a visit from the council and also the RSPCA (nasty neighbour called them) - the BCC officer started to just return the dogs straight to my house and if I wasn't home, he would put them into their kennel.

Pretty sad that they actually DID end up knowing me well enough to realise I wasn't a bad dog owner and that I was simply someone with a vengeful neighbour.

Point is, your dogs were out, they were unregistered and council don't know you from the man down the street. Contact them and make arrangements to pay it off. Yes it sucks but unfortunately the fines are in place to deter those dog owners that shouldn't own pets... and ocassionally good dog owners will be caught up with it.

[Gayle.]

My oldie got out a few years ago, and we paid the impound fee to get her out and had to have her microchipped before they'd let her go. A week later, the council fined showed up and by the time I'd done paying everything, I could have bought a brand new pedigree puppy.

But it was my fault, she was grieving for her mate who'd died a couple of weeks before and I underestimated the lengths she'd go to in order to "find" her friend (she went to the vet clinic down the road which is the last place our other dog went to alive) and the staff there rang the ranger.

All up, it was around $500-600 in pound fees and fines as I'd let her rego lapse. So ovewr $1000 for multiple dogs....yeah, I'd say that's about right.

But we had no idea the fines were following the pound fees. They certainly didn't tell us that when we went to collect her, and I expect they don't tell anyone otherwise more people would leave their dogs there. So that is not the reason dogs are being euthanased in pounds.

[WreckitWhippet]

I've had someone let two of mine out, when I believe they were breaking into the yards and kennels to steal a bitch in season. One of the dogs who was in the kennels chased them off but not before they let out my two younger pups.

Mine were chiiped, registered with council and the details were up to date. Impound fees and a dog at large fine didn't worry me one bit. I would have paid anything to get them released the next day from the pound and was bloody thankfull it was a ranger who picked them up and not someone who decided to keep them.

I too got off lightly, I got both pups back in one piece

[poodlefan]

Despite some holier than thou responses these are absurd. The fines are just revenue raisers. Dogs get out, are let out etc. Accidents happen. Unless you are a habitual offender you should get a warning. There is an anti-dog movement in this country and this is one of the ways they enforce their views. Mandatory microchipping is not about controlling dogs but about controlling you.

Try losing a dog, then tell me who benefits from microchipping. There have been owners here who've had stolen dogs returned after being missing for years and that's been due to a microchip.

Yes, the fines are revenue raisers. They are a disincentive to those who let their dogs roam and a way of recovering money to support pounds and rangers. No different to speeding fines in principle.

[nickojoy]

Despite some holier than thou responses these are absurd. The fines are just revenue raisers. Dogs get out, are let out etc. Accidents happen. Unless you are a habitual offender you should get a warning. There is an anti-dog movement in this country and this is one of the ways they enforce their views. Mandatory microchipping is not about controlling dogs but about controlling you.

Try losing a dog, then tell me who benefits from microchipping. There have been owners here who've had stolen dogs returned after being missing for years and that's been due to a microchip.

Yes, the fines are revenue raisers. They are a disincentive to those who let their dogs roam and a way of recovering money to support pounds and rangers. No different to speeding fines in principle.

Microchips are only in a dog for the honest people, dogs are found and the little boy says, daddy can we keep it, and that is how dogs do not go back to their owners.

So $100 each impounding fee and $50 feeding per day isn't enough in revenue? I pay rates on 4 properties and 2 blocks of vacant land (i still pay garbage on these blocks and water), like a lot of other people on these forums, its like a double hit. The fines were created on 24 Feb, the same day the dogs were impounded. How come the council didn't inform me when I picked up the dogs that I would be receiving more fines.

Ashanali - if you bothered reading all he thread, instead of just the first post, you would have realised that both dogs are and were at the time of impounding registered.

Poodlefan - as you said the same as speeding fines, get done once, tap dance and get off with a warning, second offence get a fine.....

At no time during my owner ship of any dog have I ever received any information in the mail to say, if your dogs get out you will get a fine of $220 plus you will have to pay impound fees, No because no one knows about it. How about a notice given to all owners when the dogs are microchipped and you receive the print from council.

Impound fees I can understand, this is how my local pound operates, but another fine? Please - I will be having an appointment with the legal officer about this tomorrow and trust me I will not be paying the $220 fines as I was not aware at the time of the offence that it was an offence. Like doing a U turn at a intersection, if there is no sign, its legal....

The $165 fines will get thrown out as I have all the supporting paperwork to prove the dogs were registered.

I'm just waiting on my second lot of fines to come in the mail, the ones I were expecting for not having a collar and ID tag with the dogs name and my phone number, this in my area is compulsary the pound said, and it is a fine. I will also fight these fines, because a dog in the back yard that chases birds and jumps into the trees with a collar on is dangerous and may hang itself.

[poodlefan]

Impound fees I can understand, this is how my local pound operates, but another fine? Please - I will be having an appointment with the legal officer about this tomorrow and trust me I will not be paying the $220 fines as I was not aware at the time of the offence that it was an offence. Like doing a U turn at a intersection, if there is no sign, its legal....

The $165 fines will get thrown out as I have all the supporting paperwork to prove the dogs were registered.

I'm just waiting on my second lot of fines to come in the mail, the ones I were expecting for not having a collar and ID tag with the dogs name and my phone number, this in my area is compulsary the pound said, and it is a fine. I will also fight these fines, because a dog in the back yard that chases birds and jumps into the trees with a collar on is dangerous and may hang itself.

The first thing that any lawyer will tell you is that ignorance of the law is no defence for breaking it.

I'd dispute the no registration fines but the rest I think you're stuck with. The no collar offence will apply because your dogs were not in the back yard.

Edited March 16, 2010 by poodlefan

[Longcoat]

It would have been cheaper for me to leave them there for 14 days then get a friend to buy them. Then the council would not had received my upto date details and therefore could not fine me from another state.

If you no longer live in NSW, throw it in the bin There is NOTHING that can be enforced from NSW to another state if that's the case.

[hoffpig]

It is absolutely absurd. Government gouges the law-abiding at every turn. Accidents happen, dogs do get out. Deepest sympathy. This just SUX big time.

[StaceyB]

Impound fees I can understand, this is how my local pound operates, but another fine? Please - I will be having an appointment with the legal officer about this tomorrow and trust me I will not be paying the $220 fines as I was not aware at the time of the offence that it was an offence. Like doing a U turn at a intersection, if there is no sign, its legal....

The $165 fines will get thrown out as I have all the supporting paperwork to prove the dogs were registered.

I'm just waiting on my second lot of fines to come in the mail, the ones I were expecting for not having a collar and ID tag with the dogs name and my phone number, this in my area is compulsary the pound said, and it is a fine. I will also fight these fines, because a dog in the back yard that chases birds and jumps into the trees with a collar on is dangerous and may hang itself.

The first thing that any lawyer will tell you is that ignorance of the law is no defence for breaking it.

I'd dispute the no registration fines but the rest I think you're stuck with. The no collar offence will apply because your dogs were not in the back yard.

Thats true; awareness doesn't mean anything really. Just because you don't know it's illegal doesn't mean you haven't broken the law. The only time you can't be charged with something is if it wasn't illegal at the time of the offence.

Definately argue the fines for the registration though, that's just rediculous if the dogs were registered.

[lappiemum]

I hear you - I got hit with a $500 fine last year because we re-registered our 2 dogs 4 days late. It was late because the info on their registration forms was incorrect (wrong breed, description, sex and owners) and we had insisted they change the info before we paid as we were convinced they wouldn't do it otherwise, and they ofcourse didn't notify us that they had made the changes - even though we contacted them a number of times!.

We had the fine overturned, but had to have a meeting with the head of animal control and the mayor in order to get it done!

(I should add they decided to use late payments to revenue raise last year - they admitted it in the meeting we had! - but after the huge negative reaction backtracked fast.)

[Dogsfevr]

I here all the whinging about revenue raising so lets look at it this way those fees go back into the pound.

Tomorrow there are no pounds because they cost to much to man ???The dogs are running lose so who will pick them up??

Seriously people want there cake & eat it too.

Also people CAN make themselves aware of local dog laws either from there website or heading down to there council office or attending there local monthly meetings & asking questions.

[conztruct]

Sorry to hear about your dilemma - the only thing you could do apart from what has already been suggested is appeal to the council over the amount of the fine - although it's a major longshot...........

If it was me and I had to pay it, from that point on I'd be making sure that I was fully aware of everything the council is supposed to be doing and pull them up every single time they don't - that's just me though with those kind of officialdoms.......LOL

[Gayle.]

Our local animal by-laws, fines and fees are on our councils website and also freely available from their offices. I would expect most councils operate the same way.

[redangel]

My prev dog a dobe was all reg & chipped. She was inadvertently let out by my well meaning (slightly forgetful) 85yr old grandfather who thought hed surprise me by planting some roses. When I got home half an hr after she 'disappeared" I called the council to find she had been 'just picked up". I beat the van back to the pound. For my effort I got a 220 fine for being out in daytime, 220 fine for being a dobermann unmuzzled, 250 fine for living 300mts from a school (she was picked up from three doors down from home)and 150 pound fees.

Just to play devils advocate assuming the dogs were all reg & microchipped is it any wonder with the knowledge of such hefty fines people choose to 'take the chance" and not register their dog at all??? At present thats a 220 fine. Unresponsible yes...but the high percentage of unregistered dogs maybe because of this thinking. If a responsible person is fined near 1100 for a correctly reg & micro'd dog what is registration but an expensive census in order to know where the fines should be sent? What of an elderly pensioner whose little swf gets out after 10 yrs of registration. That is an amazing amount for a limited income to come up with....does poor swf then stay in the pound???

I register my dogs because I love them and I hope that they never get out, but should they do i want them home asap. I am just trying to understand the fines concept, surely a one off instance should be reviewed and descretion given.....an owner who has dutifully reg their dog with no instances for 10yrs needs a form of review, for eg.

[WreckitWhippet]

I cannot believe that someone who claims to have spent so much time in rescue is ignorant of the Companion Animals ACT, especially where it relates to dogs at large and chipping.

[Nekhbet]

if the dogs are not registered to the current residential address then legally they are not registered. Why is that fine there? Because of the time and frustration it takes staff to try and track down owners who dont update details. I dont know how many hours and 6-degree-of-separation leads I have had to chase because people change address/details/SURNAMES and dont change it on their pets details. Not fair.

Fines are there to 1) help you remember to be responsible and 2) ensure there is a pound, ranger and facilities provided for the community

Never had a dog escape or had a fine. Have had the ranger come once on an unjusitfied complaint and he spent half the day rolling about with the dogs playing. Every time we move the first thing I do is update microchip details and put a hideously reliable backup as the second contact. I registered my dogs here in Geelong and made sure the woman at the council understood the breed and didnt write 'Belgian Malamute' or some other stupidity as commonly happens.

[sparkycat]

I think the fines are rather heavy handed and over the top especially when someone can be fined $1000 for reckless driving that has caused serious injury.

[Quickasyoucan]

if the dogs are not registered to the current residential address then legally they are not registered. Why is that fine there? Because of the time and frustration it takes staff to try and track down owners who dont update details. I dont know how many hours and 6-degree-of-separation leads I have had to chase because people change address/details/SURNAMES and dont change it on their pets details. Not fair.

Fines are there to 1) help you remember to be responsible and 2) ensure there is a pound, ranger and facilities provided for the community

Never had a dog escape or had a fine. Have had the ranger come once on an unjusitfied complaint and he spent half the day rolling about with the dogs playing. Every time we move the first thing I do is update microchip details and put a hideously reliable backup as the second contact. I registered my dogs here in Geelong and made sure the woman at the council understood the breed and didnt write 'Belgian Malamute' or some other stupidity as commonly happens.

Agree with Nekbhet, and I would pay ANYTHING to get my dog back if he ever went for a wander, which unless someone maliciously attempted to get through the security I have in place it would never happen and if it did I would be very glad someone found him and he was safe. I don't have unlimited funds but I would make sure I paid whatever was due.

Dogs don't die in the pounds because responsible owners won't pay to get them out. It's the irresponsible ones that care more about their latest gadget or whim or holiday than their pet who leave them there to die and I doubt it is because of the cost of getting tham out.

Seriously, dog ownership has costs, if you move you need to add updating details to the list of things you do when you move ie redirecting mail, changing electricity etc.

If your dog is outside (and there is any likelihood it might escape) it needs to wear identification, you can get break away collars if you are worried about strangulation incidents.

If there is a genuinely wrong application of the law ie the dogs were correctly and currently registered you might have a chance, otherwise I don't see why there should be any right to appeal.