conztruct Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Sorry, I should have been more clear.....he only wants money back if he doesnt get the papers, which is why I feel something fishy is going on.....If it was my puppy who died, the last thing I would be worrying about is getting the papers for a dead puppy.... Does anyone else think this sounds like a fishy story also ? I agree about providing a copy of the papers with deceased writted accross them, that way he still has them, but cannot use them for anything illegal. I agree with managing it this way to be honest. I have no idea why this person is so adament about obtaining papers but as per the regs, you have to report it as deceased so I've give them a copy with deceased written on it say that it's the rules and that's the only way you can give them anything. Do you have anything in writing from them stating that the puppy died? If you have an email for them or something maybe you should send them a confirmation to please reply advising the date the puppy died that way you have some documentation to back you up. Not a fun situation and there's definately something a bit odd about it but by giving them what they've asked for within the bounds of the regulations may avoid the situation degenerating further. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 For the reinbursement i would require a copy of a death certificate from the vet that stated the cause of the dogs illness was directly related to you.As for his papers you are required to return them to the registering body, I would make him a photocopy, write over the front of them with red nicko pen with something like PUPPY DIED ??/05/2010 PAPERS RETURNED TO DOGS VIC ON ??/05/2010. I would also send him a copy of the rules where it says thats what you are required to do. Cheers Katrina yup I agree with the above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubric Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 I don't think he realises that the actual papers are only worth about $30, he is probably thinking they are worth a couple of hundred dollars. @JulesP perhaps you live in an ideal world, where everything turns exactly how its planned, but unfortunately most of us don't. Of course it is ideal for the papers to be ready when the puppies are sold, but Dogs Victoria are not the most helpful of people at the best of times. And even if he did get them with them puppy, what would he have done with them with a 14 week old puppy anyway, you said now he can't do anything with them, which he couldnt have anyway. @Ellz I really appreciate your suggestion about the legal stuff. I dont know anyone in that profession, but will look into legal aid or similar. I will try and call the vet and tell them I am the registered owner, but I am sure they will come up with some excuse, like why is he paying for the vet fees when I am the owner. Thank you all again for your help and advice. it is much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubric Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 @ conztruct I have no proof whatsoever that the puppy is dead and I don't have their email. We have only spoken on the phone and they have been to my house twice. Thats it. I wish I did have their email, would make keeping conversations easier to keep track of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Rubric, if you use the same vet then they must live locally and you should have their address for the papers to be sent so perhaps instead of ringing them write a letter and keep a copy, request all contact be kept to written only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) oopsy Edited May 18, 2010 by casowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) Der double post Edited May 18, 2010 by casowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Why would he say the puppy is dead if it isn't, what does he have to gain from that. I agree you should be given proof if it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 The papers belong to the man. Seeing as he should already have the papers, it would be up to him to send them back in. What do you mean he couldn't do anything with the papers? He could have put the pup in his name to start with. I personally would be devastated to receive papers for a dead pup. However, they are his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) The papers belong to the man. Seeing as he should already have the papers, it would be up to him to send them back in. What do you mean he couldn't do anything with the papers? He could have put the pup in his name to start with. I personally would be devastated to receive papers for a dead pup. However, they are his. No they don't, the paperwork is still in the breeders name and now they've received the information that the puppy is dead. The responsible thing to do is to get proof of death by way of certificate and return the papers to the VCA. He couldn't do anything with the papers now, you cannot transfer a dead dog! But you could do plently of other things (especially considering there isn't a chip number on the registration papers) Edited May 18, 2010 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 However, they are his. No, they're not. They actually "belong" to the ANKC. The rules state that the papers of a deceased dog should be returned to the issuing controlling body. And, that worries me too Aziah. Especially given that the puppy was an Amstaff. Having "valid" registration papers with a dog (and no microchip) registered as an Amstaff in the wrong hands could open up some particularly nasty cans of worms!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tianakaesha Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 By receiving papers for a dog it would not take much to make fake documents to attribute to any other dog for the use of backyard breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Since when did the breeder return the papers? The OP can explain this requirement to the owner and offer to return them for him. If he decides not to return HIS papers then that is up to him. If he doesn't get the papers then he hasn't got what he paid for - a dog with papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubric Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 Well @ JulesP...tranferring the puppy is just about the only thing he could have done with them papers. And, seeing the puppy is dead (supposedly), even if he had the papers, the correct procedure is for him to send the papers back. In which case he wouldnt have them anyway. And he didnt sound too devastated on the phone, just concerned for his papers. @ellz and Aziah...I am also concerned for the reason he wants the papers, most likely to register a pitbull as an Amstaff...IDK...like I said never dealt with such a person before. When he calls next I will ask him for the death certificate and take it from there. The papers should be arriving at any time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Since when did the breeder return the papers? For many years & infact we have handed in nearly 20 over the years. I also now many other breeders who do so & any person who is a member of there state body is well aware of this rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubric Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 @JulesP...the other people who bought puppies havent got their papers yet also, and they aren't complaining...because they know they WILL get it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 No, the microchip number was not on the papers. I hadn't had the puppies chipped, after the dramas we had with the last litter at the vets (not getting number confused between the puppies, as well as 3 extra puppies this litter), I thought it easier to let the new owners do it, stupid me I won't be so stupid next time, if there is one...It's amazing how many idiots come out of the woodwork when you have puppies for sale. I just spoke to an independant vet and she feels it is highly unlikely that his puppy could have contracted the e coli from here and not show symptoms for 6 weeks. That's if his had e coli to begin with. Thanks again, you guys are being extremely helpful I thought it was illegal to sell an unchipped pup in Victoria? Not having a go, just asking a question. There is a grey area with this in Vic. Pet shops etc must be chipped but breeders can get away with not doing it and they add "oh the pup is too small and it will hurt" excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie_a1 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Can you photocopy the papers and write [DECEASED] on the copy and send the originals back? (Sorry not a breeder don't really know the process of paper work ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Reading the first post isn't the owner asking for reimbursement of the papers? Not the actual papers. He probably wants reimbursement because he never received them, did pay for a papered dog and now he obviously can't do anything with them. He really should have got the papers when he picked the pup up and IMO you as the breeder should have chipped the pups. You can not give the papers if you do not have them. Case in point. I had to DNA my last litter to prove the father, could not do that until they where microchipped, could not microchipp until 7 weeks. Could not register until I knew who the father was, could not send papers until after 7 weeks, papers arrive late last week 6 weeks after pups gone. They will be posted onece I have corrected the DNA profile with correct name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 The papers belong to the man. Seeing as he should already have the papers, it would be up to him to send them back in. What do you mean he couldn't do anything with the papers? He could have put the pup in his name to start with. I personally would be devastated to receive papers for a dead pup. However, they are his. Sorry JulesP they belong to the breeder until the breeder signs them over to the new owner to send in to Dogs Vic to have them changed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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