Incident Yesterday .... Child At My Side Gate Wanting To Pat My Dogs

[Danielle]

I havent read through the entire thread so excuse me if im repeating something that has already been said.

But your dog cannot be destroyed (and you cannot be prosecuted) if it bites someone trespassing in your back yard.

One of my dogs bit our elderly neighbour quite badly once as she put her hand over our fence to feed them. I had warned her previously that the dogs were protective of their yard and had specifically asked her not to feed my dogs as they were on a specialised diet, but she still continued to feed them. Sadly she got bit and it was bad, it required hospitalisation and stitches.

I contacted Brisbane City Council and was informed that my dog would be safe from being destroyed as it was protecting its yard and under state law a dog will not be destroyed for doing so, being labelled dangerous is another matter tho, but thankfully the old lady didnt call council as she knew she had done the wrong thing.

But then again that was back in 2002 and that was bris city council, dont know about your particular council but I would assume they would be similar.

Dont worry about signs...anyone tresspassing gets wat they deserve. They should not enter your yard, simple as that.

[casowner]

A simple sign that says "No Unauthorised Entry, Dogs on Premises" is sufficient that way unless they are allowed onto the property they are tresspassing and you are advising that there are dogs on the property. You are not saying that they are dangerous or bite, merely that they are there.

Or you can get a Garden Ghost can which has a movement detector on the outside of the gate so if anyone comes close to the gate, it sprays and they crap their pants - No one hurt just dirty undies

[Danielle]

A simple sign that says "No Unauthorised Entry, Dogs on Premises" is sufficient that way unless they are allowed onto the property they are tresspassing and you are advising that there are dogs on the property. You are not saying that they are dangerous or bite, merely that they are there.

Or you can get a Garden Ghost can which has a movement detector on the outside of the gate so if anyone comes close to the gate, it sprays and they crap their pants - No one hurt just dirty undies

LMAO what a brilliant idea, maybe I will invest in one of those, sick of ppl trying to pat my horses over the bloody fence. Hehe I can just imagine ppls reaction tho, it would give them a fright!

[ravensmyst00]

I was home yesterday afternoon when both my dogs went mental ... barking their heads off. It was not their normal bark so I headed out to the front yard ... and found a young boy (in his school uniform) at the side gate and his mother standing on the footpath.

She said "it is ok, he just wants to pat the dogs" ... to which my immediate reply was "no it is not ok to enter my property to touch my dogs". I then turned to the boy and told him never to enter anyone property and try to touch their dogs.

His mother said something about "we didn't know they were aggressive dogs". I told her all dogs can be territorial in their yards and it is never a good idea to pat any dog without checking with the dogs owner … and the kid cut through the neighbours yard and the mother just walked off.

My front yard is not fenced. My dogs are securely fenced in the back half of my yard with a side gate coming off the side of the house to the side fence … it is set back about 2 to 3 metres from the front of my house. The gate (padlocked at all times) has timber palings which are no more then 1cm apart but there is a smallish gap between the house and the gate post due to the house foundations – I can just squeeze part of my hand through the gap but a child could probably get their hand into it.

I rang the council to find out what my obligations were in regard to “if the boy was bitten” sticking his hand through the gate … and they redirected me to legal aid.

What should I now do? Should I now create a second gate to keep my dogs away from the side gate to protect them from stupid people?

best thing to do is to contact the school - advise them of what has happened and request that they include a reminder to all parents about correct dog ediquette in their next news letter.

[Tilly]

I thought I would provide a bit of an update ...

I have had numerous discussions with council and various departments and have been provided with the following information...

Basically the council do not distinguish between public and private land when it comes to a dog bite - so there is no difference between your dog biting someone in the street and biting someone in your backyard.

The Brisbane City Council also does not have any stipulations on fencing requirements for normal dogs. They just specify "adequate fencing" - ie fencing sufficient to keep your dog contained within your yard.

In my case - had I not been home and the boy was bitten - both the child and his mother could have reported the bite. The matter would be investigated and the investigator would take witness statements and then ask me to defend the claim. Because I would be unable to defend my dogs by saying it was provoked (because I didn't witness it) there is a very good chance the dog/s would be declared dangerous if there was a reasonable belief that one of my dogs had bitten the child.

The fact the dogs are behind a secure fence may or may not be taken into account (depends what the investigator argues) - they do not give consideration to the fact the person was trespassing in order to access my dogs.

The only way I would be able to defend my dogs when I am not home would be to surveillance camera footage to show the dogs were provoked, ie hit by a stick - which wasn't the case in this instance.

The use of signage and no trespassing signs would make no difference to a dog being declared dangerous ... it may make a difference when it comes to legal action.

Basically the Animal Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 is written to protect the idiots and doesn't help a dog owner who is trying to do the right thing.

I have written to both primary schools in the area (they are basically side by side) and asked them to consider the dog education program for their students or at least put something in their newsletters about the incident.

I have also organised for a builder to come out and see about modifying the gate to close the gap between the house and the gate and have put shade cloth up to close the gaps in the palings, I will just keep replacing it when it gets shredded by the dogs. I will also look into getting some surveillance cameras - but that one might take a little while.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Tilly

[rotts4ever]

I would put a sign up saying 'beware of dangerous dog.' Even if they aren't most people would think twice about trying to pat the dog. Or I would put up a baby gate style rig up so that you're dogs can't get down the side of the house to the gate.

I would never put a sign up saying dogs are dangerous or bite(even if they are not/don't), if something ever happened you have just admitted the dogs are aggressive even if they aren't.

Cheers

[digger001]

a simple "please do not pat the dogs" should be ok

and as far as being held liable if someone is bit

as long as the dogs are on their own property it shouldn't be an issue

this also apply to other animals straying into their yard

your dogs should not be held responsible for what happens to it

my x boss got a call one day while she was at work

her next door neighbors rotti had jumped the fence into her yard and her 2 dogs( a pit bull X and a staffy)

her dogs defended her yard and with 2 dogs on one it was not pretty

the neighbor jumped the fence in an attempt to save his dog but unfortunately got bit in the process

he tried his hardest to get both dog PTS because of the incident

but they decided that since both he and his dog had jumped a 6ft color bond fence to gain access to the property that was padlock and a sign on the gate saying no entry unless invited

that the dogs were only defending their territory

however both dogs being of the breeds they were

had to have a behavior test done by local laws

they passed with flying colors

so all charges were dropped against them

[Dame Aussie]

I thought I would provide a bit of an update ...

I have had numerous discussions with council and various departments and have been provided with the following information...

Basically the council do not distinguish between public and private land when it comes to a dog bite - so there is no difference between your dog biting someone in the street and biting someone in your backyard.

The Brisbane City Council also does not have any stipulations on fencing requirements for normal dogs. They just specify "adequate fencing" - ie fencing sufficient to keep your dog contained within your yard.

In my case - had I not been home and the boy was bitten - both the child and his mother could have reported the bite. The matter would be investigated and the investigator would take witness statements and then ask me to defend the claim. Because I would be unable to defend my dogs by saying it was provoked (because I didn't witness it) there is a very good chance the dog/s would be declared dangerous if there was a reasonable belief that one of my dogs had bitten the child.

The fact the dogs are behind a secure fence may or may not be taken into account (depends what the investigator argues) - they do not give consideration to the fact the person was trespassing in order to access my dogs.

The only way I would be able to defend my dogs when I am not home would be to surveillance camera footage to show the dogs were provoked, ie hit by a stick - which wasn't the case in this instance.

The use of signage and no trespassing signs would make no difference to a dog being declared dangerous ... it may make a difference when it comes to legal action.

Basically the Animal Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 is written to protect the idiots and doesn't help a dog owner who is trying to do the right thing.

I have written to both primary schools in the area (they are basically side by side) and asked them to consider the dog education program for their students or at least put something in their newsletters about the incident.

I have also organised for a builder to come out and see about modifying the gate to close the gap between the house and the gate and have put shade cloth up to close the gaps in the palings, I will just keep replacing it when it gets shredded by the dogs. I will also look into getting some surveillance cameras - but that one might take a little while.

How bloody ridiculous

This kind if thing really gets to me.

Noone should be in your yard or near your gate/fence, or trying to touch your dogs, simple as that, yet again, Councils/Government protect the people in the wrong.

Absolute rubbish.

[Cosmolo]

Wow, thats insane. The world really has gone mad.

[Staranais]

as long as the dogs are on their own property it shouldn't be an issue

this also apply to other animals straying into their yard

your dogs should not be held responsible for what happens to it

Nice theory, but apparently it doesn't work in Brisbane - see the post above where Tilly checked with the city council.

How bloody silly. It's important to protect people against dogs, yes, but it seems like they're saying that no matter how stupid the human is, the dog is always at fault.

Tilly, just out of interest, did you find out if there any circumstances in which a dog bite is "allowable"? How about if my dog is actively protecting you from an assault - is it "allowed" to bite then to protect its owner? Or how about if it is biting in self defence? Or is the dog always in the wrong if a bite occurs?

[KitKat]

I would put a sign up saying 'beware of dangerous dog.' Even if they aren't most people would think twice about trying to pat the dog.

I don't know if this has already been said - but 'beware' type signs make YOU liable if the dog bites...it's not seen as you warning people, it's seen as you admitting your dog may/will bite. Signs stating 'dog lives here' etc etc are all fine...but anything with 'dangerous', 'beware', 'be aware' etc is admitting liability before an event.

Edited August 9, 2010 by KitKat

[Danois]

It comes down to common law. If you put up a sign stating 'dangerous' or 'warning' you are admitting your animal is liable to cause harm to a person

(sniped quote)

Just to clarify - common law is developed through decisions of the court i.e. case law. Which means there must be case law which supports the proposition that if you put up such a sign then its an admission of liability. But no one can seem to point to any decided cases.

If there was a case about it - you'd easily be able to run an argument re common usage of the signs and that they're used as a warning that there is a dog on the property and not as any admission that the dog inside was dangerous and you knew it would bite.

Anyway - in NSW - Section 16 of the Companion Animals Act 1998 provides a statutory defence is your dog bites a person if they are trespassing on your property.

[lanabanana]

Wow at post #65 - that is ridiculous.

I have my large dog as a pet, but secondary to that he is there for protection. He is a very good guard dog (so I have been told by a tree feller who attempted to enter my yard) and does what he is meant to do - deter anyone from coming on th eproperty without me.

I also (this is probably bad) tell wee fibs when people ask if he bites. I tell them not if oyu are with me LOL - kind of implying he does when I am not there but without atually saying it (the chances of him biting are pretty much NIL).

The point I am making with this is, if someone came into my yard (burglar or rapist or whatever) I would "almost" hope he bites them.

As for kids coming into your back yard anbd getting bitten - what about the fact they shoudlnt be there int he first place???

I am not sure regarding the signage here but in NZ, you could have a sign that said "Dogs on property, enter at own risk" or something like that....because oyu dont say the dogs are dangerous, and the "enter at own risk" is like them agreeing it is their responsibility if something happens.

I don't bother with the sign myself. If someone is stupid enough to enter my proprty with a 40 kilo dog going hard nuts on the other side of the fence then they must be really brave LMAO

[Danois]

I am not sure regarding the signage here but in NZ, you could have a sign that said "Dogs on property, enter at own risk" or something like that....because oyu dont say the dogs are dangerous, and the "enter at own risk" is like them agreeing it is their responsibility if something happens.

It's different in NZ as NZ does not have the same position on public liability etc as Australia

[lanabanana]

I am not sure regarding the signage here but in NZ, you could have a sign that said "Dogs on property, enter at own risk" or something like that....because oyu dont say the dogs are dangerous, and the "enter at own risk" is like them agreeing it is their responsibility if something happens.

It's different in NZ as NZ does not have the same position on public liability etc as Australia

Yep, thought it might be diff here.

[rubiton]

Glad we are different to Qld - SA is like NSW (if I read the post above correctly) . YOur dog is not at fault if someone or something is trespassing on your property according to teh dog and cat management website in SA (saw the actual ACt ruling on there).

[BMAK]

we have had a similar problem we live next to a lane way that travels between two streets and many of the young school kids come and tease the dogs by hitting the fence with sticks and screaming, some time before we moved to the house people have jumped the fence to go swimming in the pool so we have "guard dog signs" situated on the fences like yours to deter children and adults who put there hands over the fence because the dogs can just peep over it they decide to pat them, my dogs are very affectionate (would lick a fly) but they look scary i mean if i saw a scary looking dog it would be enough to deter me from sticking my hand over a colour bond fence where i cant see what they are like let alone go near one.

parents should deffinately educate there kids about dogs

[noisymina]

I had a sign on our front gate:

Horse loose

Dogs loose.

Entry by prior arrrangement only.

Well, nobody came in while it was there. It finally fell off from old age.

But it was a pain when all the delivery people would stop at the gate and call me on their mobiles to come let them in. Like I didn't know they were coming? I would have thought that WAS "prior arrangement", but apparently not.

Sometimes you can't win.

[Boronia]

You may be interested that 'Catch Of The Day' have a Swann 4 Camera CCTV Surveillance System for $79. It is in the 'small fish' section on the left of the screen...scroll down and you will find it.

May be worth a look (they also have a Super HealthGuard Pet Bed for $29.80 )

[JulesP]

How about a sheet of clear perspex to cover the gaps in the palings? That way the dogs can see out and it should last longer than the shade cloth.