Toddler's Cheek Ripped Off By Family Pet

[poodlefan]

Bet you if it was a pit bull they would have mentioned the word "MAULED" atleast 10 more times

What that got to do with anything? You are bringing pit bulls into a discussion that has nothing to do with them.

It was a sarcastic joke against the media

Read more versions siks. I've read "mauled" and "face ripped off" in a range of reports of this incident.

[indigirl]

That poor child Idiot parents should never have allowed the child near the dog when he was being fed.

While I can take food from any of my dogs if i need to, I don't assume they will allow anyone else to. I also crate all my dogs at feeding times and if friend's children are here they are not allowed near the dog crates at all until the food is eaten and bowls have all been removed. None of my current dogs are food aggressive but I am not willing to take a chance that a scuffle might break out, there is always a first time for everything.

For what its worth its not just about training. I have owned a food aggressive dog in the past. And while i was able to get food from him if I had to (tho I would never just go up and take it, I would speak to him firmly first), if anyone else even went near him he would snarl. He was raised the same as all my other dogs, and had never been mistreated. Some dogs are just resource guarders, and the only ppl who think that training a dog to have good manners will resolve this issue, are the ones who have clearly never owned a food aggressive dog.

[Guest Willow]

If you can't control the potentially bad behaviors of your dog you are asking for trouble and you are an irresponsible dog owner.

No.

Wrong.

So, what you are essentially saying here is that if a human being cannot have total and utter mind control of another species with a brain & an agenda of it's own they are irresponsible??? That's 100% of the dog owning population then.

You may be reasonably confident of your dogs reactions, but if anyone beleives they have 100% control over their reactions in any given situation they are arrogant fools. NO ONE can have utter control over another living being. That's why they made robots.

The best anyone can do is train train train, and practice good management of any undesirable behaviours. You just don't know if & when a dog is going to decide that today is the day it doesn't want to do what it's told. Even the best trained dog can decide not to follow instructions sometimes.

Management is the key, not necessarily control.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Willow

[dandybrush]

i pat my dog while he eats so that he wont have food issues, however that said, im not dumb enough to let a child play with him while he is, he will be locked securely in his crate away from pesky children (when the time comes)

[geo]

Greytmate summed it up, "Rank is fluid depending on the value of the resource and how easily it can be obtained."

I have 2 dogs and they guard different things, my wife is the boss of one and can take bones off her, but when i try she gets defensive, but i still can

I am the boss of the other and can take whatever i want of him as can my wife, though we never let our daughter near the dogs when they're eating!!

I did find when teaching them to let their food go that it can make them guard it even more and make a bad situation worse.

Siks: you just may be the best dog trainer in the world.

[Souff]

He was bought up with our dogs since 8 weeks old but when he eats he literally lays across his bowl and growls while eating. He is the only one that does it and has not been treated any differently than the others. So in his case it may not be genetic (It may be how he was raised before coming to us) but I am reasnoably sure its not from his time here.

Must also add he only growls at the other dogs around him. Any adult can still take his food away from him and he will let them. Just protective in regards to other dogs.

We had a rescue dog like that once that would lie across the bowl and guard it, so we stopped putting food in a bowl and instead we scattered it around on a big piece of plastic, or on some sheets of newspaper.

That kept him very busy going between the various patches of food and scoffing them down before any of the others could be perceived as a threat to him.

We couldn't give him bones either, as he would guard those later. Drove me crackers.

[fifi]

poor kid :-(

simple rules at our house for kids for generations, don't go near eating or sleeping or unknown dogs or dogs with pups.

None of us were ever bitten, and we interacted with many, many dogs.

Mine are fed seperately, left to enjoy their meal and then bed.

My son was taught from day one the same rules, just stupid to put your child at risk.

fifi

[Bullbreedlover]

I find these replies very interesting.

My dogs are the lowest in the order of pack members in my family.

A dog I bred (Bullmastiff), who is now 5 years old has been brought up with his family(and he is a big dog) and the children have participated in feeding him right from when they picked him up at 8 weeks old.

The two children have taken food away from this dog and successfully placed it back in front of him while he was told to sit and wait. The two children have always been the higher in the pecking order.

I ask you.....Is that wrong???

The dam of this dog whom I still have with me has been part of our grand daughters life. Our grand daughter could take a ball or food from her mouth.

.....Is that wrong???

Where I board my dogs, one of the children who helps with feeding the dogs can safely(and I mean safely) place my dogs food bowls down without fear.

Is that wrong???

Am I doing or saing something wrong when bringing up my dogs or instructing my puppy people in the pecking order of their family pet.

My dogs can have their food taken away from them by my husband and myself at any stage. They get fed separately from each other as they always have been.

People bring dogs up in different ways.

My Bullmastiffs are food orientated NOT food aggressive.

Now is someone going to tell me I am doing it all wrong??

[OSoSwift]

Poor child, stupid parents

I have no food aggression issues with my dogs, however they are all fed seperately so I know exactly what they are getting, they are fed after the kids go to be.

I have no doubt the kids could feed them with no issues, and I am sure the could remove something from them.

Personally I feel to feed them all together is putting stress on the pack dynamiics that doesn't need to be there. The same with taking food off them just for the sake of it. If I really need to get something off them I can but I don't see the advantage in doing it often as a training exercise and therefore making their food potentially more highly guarded as a result. I will trade wth something else, or if I have to remove it I will add something yummy as a reward.

My dog also know and respond to leave itsi will stop eating something and back off. If what they have they can eat, it is immediately returned to them.

Edited January 4, 2011 by OSoSwift

[geo]

I don't think anyone is saying that Stonebridge. My dogs are also the lowest in the pecking order, and my daughter too can take a ball from his mouth and hand feed them as she thinks this is a great way of not having to eat her food! (she is certainly not allowed near their food bowls)

However no matter how much I or you or anyone else trains their dogs it is still not a good idea to have a child near a dogs food bowl when feeding as no dog can be trusted 100% The dog in question probably only gave a warning snap but that sure is enough to cause a lot of damage.

[Golden Rules]

Bet you if it was a pit bull they would have mentioned the word "MAULED" atleast 10 more times.

The part about it eating it's food would have been left out as well.

As for the dog being a dog and that's what dogs do.Rubbish NONE of my dogs that I have raised have had food guarding issues.

Any member of my family could safely remove a bone or food from my dogs without any problems.

Nothing is my dogs including his food I can take it away if I want to without any issues.

It's the owners fault not the dogs.

Poor training is what got that child bitten.

No, lack of supervision and ignoring a very basic rule about dogs, kids and food got that child bitten.

Clearly you've never owned a resource guarder siks. Count your blessings that you haven't but don't kid yourself for a moment that its down to your superior training.

It's got nothing to do with what you call superior training.

It's basic puppy manners and maintaining pack rank.

If you can't control the potentially bad behaviors of your dog you are asking for trouble and you are an irresponsible dog owner.

Imagine if you have a dog that does guard food and I am a parent and kids do slip away some time. Then the kid goes and plays with the dogs bowl and the child does get bitten.

It is your fault for not addressing the issue.

I agree a dog should not be disturbed while eating or sleeping but the animal should not bite a human if and when it does happen.

It's a matter of MANAGING the issue rather than simply addressing it.

A dogs propensity to guard a resource that aggressively can also be partly genetic. It can have nothing to do with how responsible the owner is. Good owners can have bad dogs.

I have a dog who resource guards his food - fiercely. I visited the breeders when the puppies were 5 weeks old and have a video of this 5 week old puppy resource guarding the toys from the other puppies. And it was a small litter of just 3 puppies.

So I am sure part of it at least is genetic.

[siks3]

I find these replies very interesting.

My dogs are the lowest in the order of pack members in my family.

A dog I bred (Bullmastiff), who is now 5 years old has been brought up with his family(and he is a big dog) and the children have participated in feeding him right from when they picked him up at 8 weeks old.

The two children have taken food away from this dog and successfully placed it back in front of him while he was told to sit and wait. The two children have always been the higher in the pecking order.

I ask you.....Is that wrong???

The dam of this dog whom I still have with me has been part of our grand daughters life. Our grand daughter could take a ball or food from her mouth.

.....Is that wrong???

Where I board my dogs, one of the children who helps with feeding the dogs can safely(and I mean safely) place my dogs food bowls down without fear.

Is that wrong???

Am I doing or saing something wrong when bringing up my dogs or instructing my puppy people in the pecking order of their family pet.

My dogs can have their food taken away from them by my husband and myself at any stage. They get fed separately from each other as they always have been.

People bring dogs up in different ways.

My Bullmastiffs are food orientated NOT food aggressive.

Now is someone going to tell me I am doing it all wrong??

Top post you are doing everything right.

You are doing 100% what is required as a dog owner.

You are preventing problems from happening. Excellent work in my book I do the same.

If people treated dogs like dogs from day one instead of treating them like babies a lot fewer incidents like this would happen.

Edited January 4, 2011 by siks3

[Kavik]

Firstly the child in the article is 4 years old - too young to be able to enforce rules/commands or be seen as higher in the pecking order than the dog. The article also says that the child was playing with the dog while the dog ate, not that the child was helping to feed the dog. I don't know many dogs (especially Labradors!) that are interested in playing when presented with their dinner! Most likely the dog was only ever tolerating being annoyed by the child while it ate, and did not tolerate it this time.

[Bullbreedlover]

Firstly the child in the article is 4 years old - too young to be able to enforce rules/commands or be seen as higher in the pecking order than the dog. The article also says that the child was playing with the dog while the dog ate, not that the child was helping to feed the dog. I don't know many dogs (especially Labradors!) that are interested in playing when presented with their dinner! Most likely the dog was only ever tolerating being annoyed by the child while it ate, and did not tolerate it this time.

Have to disagree there.

In your opinion when is a child old enough to be included in the pecking order? When it is too late?

[Snoopy21]

The thing that worries me about this sort of training is that if either the child or the dog does something unpredictable (as children and dogs sometimes do) then the consequences could be horrible. A child bending over picking up a dogs bowl has its face and hands right at mouth level so if for some reason something is different one day and the dog decides to snap, then it would happen far too fast for me to stop it even if I were right there.

That being said I am only training my first dog, and she shows no sign of any food guarding.

[Bullbreedlover]

The thing that worries me about this sort of training is that if either the child or the dog does something unpredictable (as children and dogs sometimes do) then the consequences could be horrible. A child bending over picking up a dogs bowl has its face and hands right at mouth level so if for some reason something is different one day and the dog decides to snap, then it would happen far too fast for me to stop it even if I were right there.

That being said I am only training my first dog, and she shows no sign of any food guarding.

I am presuming you are talking about my post.

If so,

I am not saying that this type of training will work for every single family and every single dog and would never advocate novice owners in doing this unless they fully understand what I am talking about.

No dog is absolutely 100% bomb proof. They are after all..dogs.

But understanding dog behaviour, dog aggression and human pack order and having common sense is a requirement

[siks3]

The thing that worries me about this sort of training is that if either the child or the dog does something unpredictable (as children and dogs sometimes do) then the consequences could be horrible. A child bending over picking up a dogs bowl has its face and hands right at mouth level so if for some reason something is different one day and the dog decides to snap, then it would happen far too fast for me to stop it even if I were right there.

That being said I am only training my first dog, and she shows no sign of any food guarding.

I am presuming you are talking about my post.

If so,

I am not saying that this type of training will work for every single family and every single dog and would never advocate novice owners in doing this unless they fully understand what I am talking about.

No dog is absolutely 100% bomb proof. They are after all..dogs.

But understanding dog behaviour, dog aggression and human pack order and having common sense is a requirement

:laugh:

[poodlefan]

The thing that worries me about this sort of training is that if either the child or the dog does something unpredictable (as children and dogs sometimes do) then the consequences could be horrible. A child bending over picking up a dogs bowl has its face and hands right at mouth level so if for some reason something is different one day and the dog decides to snap, then it would happen far too fast for me to stop it even if I were right there.

That being said I am only training my first dog, and she shows no sign of any food guarding.

I am presuming you are talking about my post.

If so,

I am not saying that this type of training will work for every single family and every single dog and would never advocate novice owners in doing this unless they fully understand what I am talking about.

No dog is absolutely 100% bomb proof. They are after all..dogs.

But understanding dog behaviour, dog aggression and human pack order and having common sense is a requirement

The first thing to understand about dog behaviour is that resource guarding perfectly natural to a dog.

The next thing to understand is that children aged 4 years and under are statistically the most likely to be bitten, will most likely be bitten on the face or head and that food is a common trigger for dog aggression towards children.

Understanding both those things should inform all owners of dogs with very young kids that dogs and children should never be alone when there is food present and that children that young should not be expected by owners to be higher than the dogs in the pack order.

Every single child safety program with any credibility recommends teaching children that dogs should be left alone when eating. Personally I'd not be allowing children to feed the dog unsupervised until they were older - say 7ish.

We went through this last year with another DOLer. Children generalise - allowing them near your dog when its eating tends to mean to them that its fine for all dogs. Not a lesson I'd be wanting to teach a very young child.

Supervision saves kids from a lot of scars. Pity it was missing in this case.

[Kirty]

How very sad.

I honestly believe that my children could safely remove toys, food and even bones from my dogs - but am I willing to test that theory? Hell no!! My children have it absolutely drummed into them that they are NEVER allowed to approach the dogs when they are eating. My daughter is only 3.5 years old and last week she tried to take a bone away from Champa - she was so quick and I ROARED at her to stay away from him. I think I scared her a bit, but so what? He didn't bat an eyelid but as I said, its just not worth the risk.

[shyfig]

I find these replies very interesting.

My dogs are the lowest in the order of pack members in my family.

A dog I bred (Bullmastiff), who is now 5 years old has been brought up with his family(and he is a big dog) and the children have participated in feeding him right from when they picked him up at 8 weeks old.

The two children have taken food away from this dog and successfully placed it back in front of him while he was told to sit and wait. The two children have always been the higher in the pecking order.

I ask you.....Is that wrong???

The dam of this dog whom I still have with me has been part of our grand daughters life. Our grand daughter could take a ball or food from her mouth.

.....Is that wrong???

Where I board my dogs, one of the children who helps with feeding the dogs can safely(and I mean safely) place my dogs food bowls down without fear.

Is that wrong???

Am I doing or saing something wrong when bringing up my dogs or instructing my puppy people in the pecking order of their family pet.

My dogs can have their food taken away from them by my husband and myself at any stage. They get fed separately from each other as they always have been.

People bring dogs up in different ways.

My Bullmastiffs are food orientated NOT food aggressive.

Now is someone going to tell me I am doing it all wrong??

I think "participated" would be the key factor. Did any of your children feed your dogs by themselves with you not present?

I think as long as the "leader of the pack" is present supervising the process of children feeding dog... dog feels secure. Maybe it is different when the "Leader" goes out of sight or is not present with the child as appears to have happened in the Toddler's situation?