d22 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Everyone, I am new poster to this forum, although I have browsed these forums several times before. I have a few questions I was hoping to get some answers/opinions for. Yesterday I was out walking my 18mth old dog, Lexie. It was the first time I had walked her whilst also pushing my 6 month old son in his pram, and I had connected her lead to the pram. Everything going really well (happy puppy, happy baby, relieved mum) until another dog came bolting out of nowhere. He had no lead, collar, no owner seemed to be around. He ran straight up to Lexie (who always adopts a submissive position when any dog approaches her) and basically stood over her and was keeping her down. My first thought was to just stand aside and with Lexie being so submissive to him, the dog would sniff her and get bored on and move. But for some reason he started to get more aggressive and started growling and mouthing at her, and Lexie started to whimper and yelp, so I intervened. I didn't really know what to do, but I started yelling and 'growling' at the dog to get away, but that didn't work. So I did the only thing I could think of, which was to kick the dog as hard as I could in the ribs. It took three kicks, and he got off her and ran off. At this point someone came out of their house (not the dogs owners though) and caught the dog and secured it in her garage. Lexie thankfully had no visible injuries, although she was very shook up and scared, and kept trying to jump in the pram with my son (I can only imagine she felt she would be safer there!) When I thoroughly checked her over at home, she seemed tender in a few places, but that was all. So my questions are these: - was this a dog attack? Or was this simply a dog asserting his dominance in a more aggressive manner? - was I justified in kicking this animal? at the time I all I was thinking of was the wellbeing and protection of Lexie, who was visibly distressed. I hate violence against animals, but in the moment I didn't know how else to get this dog off her! - besides never ever attaching the lead to pram ever again (I had visions of it tipping whilst this was all unfolding) - is there anything else I could done differently. - what are the chances that Lexie (who has the most beautiful, lovable, playful personality with both humans and other dogs) may now be a bit timid from this experience and what can I do to make sure this doesn't happen? Apologies for the bombardment of questions, but this has left me extremely shaken up, and a bit scared to take Lexie out again, especially whilst I am also pushing the pram! Thank you all again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm no expert but I'd say the very fact it took you 3 kicks to get the dog off her means yes you were justified and yes it was an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Everyone,I am new poster to this forum, although I have browsed these forums several times before. I have a few questions I was hoping to get some answers/opinions for. Yesterday I was out walking my 18mth old dog, Lexie. It was the first time I had walked her whilst also pushing my 6 month old son in his pram, and I had connected her lead to the pram. Everything going really well (happy puppy, happy baby, relieved mum) until another dog came bolting out of nowhere. He had no lead, collar, no owner seemed to be around. He ran straight up to Lexie (who always adopts a submissive position when any dog approaches her) and basically stood over her and was keeping her down. My first thought was to just stand aside and with Lexie being so submissive to him, the dog would sniff her and get bored on and move. But for some reason he started to get more aggressive and started growling and mouthing at her, and Lexie started to whimper and yelp, so I intervened. I didn't really know what to do, but I started yelling and 'growling' at the dog to get away, but that didn't work. So I did the only thing I could think of, which was to kick the dog as hard as I could in the ribs. It took three kicks, and he got off her and ran off. At this point someone came out of their house (not the dogs owners though) and caught the dog and secured it in her garage. Lexie thankfully had no visible injuries, although she was very shook up and scared, and kept trying to jump in the pram with my son (I can only imagine she felt she would be safer there!) When I thoroughly checked her over at home, she seemed tender in a few places, but that was all. So my questions are these: - was this a dog attack? Or was this simply a dog asserting his dominance in a more aggressive manner? Yes, he used his mouth on her. She was under control, the other dog rushed you. - was I justified in kicking this animal? at the time I all I was thinking of was the wellbeing and protection of Lexie, who was visibly distressed. I hate violence against animals, but in the moment I didn't know how else to get this dog off her! I think so. - besides never ever attaching the lead to pram ever again (I had visions of it tipping whilst this was all unfolding) - is there anything else I could done differently. Put yourself in between any approaching dogs and your own, be assertive, tell the other dog to SIT or BACK OFF. In a DEEP voice, and an assertive stance. Stamp your feet. There is more you can do, but that is a good start to frighten off about 90% of approaching dogs. - what are the chances that Lexie (who has the most beautiful, lovable, playful personality with both humans and other dogs) may now be a bit timid from this experience and what can I do to make sure this doesn't happen? She will probably be ok. Unfortunately you can't stop people being irresponsible, but you can report this dog to council, and probably should. I can imagine how you feel, and hope Lexie is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Regardless of whether this was a attack (teeth) or not, you were definately rushed at my an dog not under control and you really need to report this. It's scary to think what could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I would classify this as an attack. Did the dog bite Lexie, or shake her violently? Is she acting strangely? I am probably erring on the side of caution but I am just worried that Lexie may have internal injuries if the attack was of a more violent nature. So sorry that you had to go through this, irresponsible owners who let their dogs run loose are far too common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortfurball Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Greytmate answered beautifully. Yes I'd class that as an attack and yes you were absolutely justified in kicking the dog. Like you I don't like violence against animals but I wouldn't have hesitated to do the same if I'd found myself in that situation. I also try to get between my dog and an approaching dog if I see it coming. I've found the words "Back off!" come out most naturally, and in a commanding tone. If Lexie has a doggie best friend, or if you know anyone who has a very friendly relaxed dog, organise a playdate for her in a controlled environment. Big hugs to both you and Lexie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think you handled it really well and you have asked very good questions. None of us want to ever kick a dog, but under your circumstances I feel alot of us would have done the same thing. I think it is important that you take Lexie out for more walks asap so she forgets about that incident, puts it behind her and learns to enjoy the walks. Make sure you don't walk her with a worried/anxious frame o mind cos she will feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doglover007 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm no expert but I'd say the very fact it took you 3 kicks to get the dog off her means yes you were justified and yes it was an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doglover007 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi there graytmate, In my experience with dog Psychology it seems he first started to dominate , when the growling started definitely a warning if she moved he would have attacked her, you did what you had to do, Next time if this happens stand your ground and walk into the other dogs space slowly without fear be calm, as soon as you see it back away you are taking its power away if that does not work poke the dog on the neck with the same intensity its showing, eg, if its at level 5 poke with 6 or higher, like other dogs do to each other with out anger or fear because dogs will reflect that. You must be the dominate one at all times with your dog, and make sure you never show poor thing affection to your dog in these experiences because it will nurture its instability or weakness and insecurity and will associate other dogs and that area of your walk as a negative experience, best to keep walking and move on. I have worked on many cases to educate human on the right energy and body language to use. Like sky said walk with confidence and it will reflect on her let go of that experience and move on, Tony www.aussiedogwhisperer.com.au feel free to contact me for any questions [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 ADW (tony) what if this dog turned and BIT HER as she poked it?? I certinaly wouldnt be poking an aggressive dog I didnt know... Yes you are justified kicking it, I would have too, how frightning for you and poor Lexi, glad she is submissive as I shudder to think you tring to cope with bubs in a pram and trying to deal with a dog fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Tony are you affiliated with Cesar Milan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 How scary for you!! But glad that you, your baby and Lexie isn't physically harmed. Yes, I would consider that as an attack and I would of done the same if I was in your situation. There are idiots out there and sometimes we have to suffer for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Sorry to hear of your experience. I hope that not too much damage has been done to Lexie both menatlly and physically. What has worked for me in the past when walking my toy poodles. I have found the best way to deter street savvy/stray dogs is to face them, bend down and pretend to pick up a rock or stick and then go through the throwing action (exagerated like you are really going to peg it at the dog). During the act of throwing the non existant object yell go away or something similar. I have yet to see a dog not respond to this. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doglover007 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Danielle my work is similar, Its working on Psychology of the dogs, and educating human on dog psychology, combined with using energy and body language, I always get asked if its dog training, i really believe that a dog must be balanced, once its balanced and you have accomplished leadership role, dog training is a piece of cake, not even need treats.,A dog can be intelligent but not balanced, like us humans,, we can smart to build rocket ships but we are intimidated or insecure in our life. Balanced life is much better than an intelligent life. Dog Owners Must understand the basic psychology of their Dogs and see them as Dogs and not expect their Dogs to be humans and think like we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d22 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thanks everyone for all your replies! It makes me feel better to know that most of you here would have responded the same way. Hopefully I am never in this situation again, but if I am, I will definitely put myself in front of Lexie and be assertive! I will also be taking Lexie out for a walk this afternoon (without the baby this time), and just make sure things are as 'normal' as possible for her. @ Silent Child - I'm pretty confident that Lexie does not have any internal injuries. She has been pretty acting pretty normal today, has eaten her treats, played with her toys, tried to steal socks from the washing basket (lol). But thank you for being concerned, and I'm still watching her more closely than normal just to make sure she's ok. I did report the incident to domestic animal control who are trying to find out who owns the dog, so that they can be spoken to by a ranger. Hopefully they find the owners because I would hate for this to happen to anyone else. Also this happened right next to a primary school, so would hate for some poor little kids to be scared or hurt by this dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I would not recommend putting yourself in a position to poke a strange dog in the neck- particularly when you don't know what intensity would be required- you may agitate the situation further or be bitten. Agree with Greytmate. Good for you for reporting it as well d22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi there graytmate, In my experience with dog Psychology it seems he first started to dominate , when the growling started definitely a warning if she moved he would have attacked her, you did what you had to do, Next time if this happens stand your ground and walk into the other dogs space slowly without fear be calm, as soon as you see it back away you are taking its power away if that does not work poke the dog on the neck with the same intensity its showing, eg, if its at level 5 poke with 6 or higher, like other dogs do to each other with out anger or fear because dogs will reflect that. You must be the dominate one at all times with your dog, and make sure you never show poor thing affection to your dog in these experiences because it will nurture its instability or weakness and insecurity and will associate other dogs and that area of your walk as a negative experience, best to keep walking and move on. I have worked on many cases to educate human on the right energy and body language to use. Like sky said walk with confidence and it will reflect on her let go of that experience and move on,Tony www.aussiedogwhisperer.com.au feel free to contact me for any questions [email protected] Wow. Are you for real? Telling some stranger you have never met to POKE a dog that is acting in a aggressive manner. Seriously. Poke them? Im guessing you have watched a lot of the Dog Whisperer, so think back to that now. Why the hell do you think they say "do not attempt the techniques you are about to see without consulting a professional"? Cause if you do the wrong thing to a dog who is in a high state of arousal, it can go badly. Very Badly. Aka, someone getting severly bitten because they decided to poke a aggressive on edge dog in the neck. Seriously, how silly can you be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doglover007 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Good Luck d22 theres an by your side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Poke a strange dog that is behaving aggressively?!! Are you serious! If I had a large stick I might 'poke' it, though to be honest, I'd be more inclined to belt it acorss the rump, but I would NEVER poke a strange dog that is acting aggressively with my hand. Edited March 24, 2011 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Danielle my work is similar, Its working on Psychology of the dogs, and educating human on dog psychology, combined with using energy and body language, I always get asked if its dog training, i really believe that a dog must be balanced, once its balanced and you have accomplished leadership role, dog training is a piece of cake, not even need treats.,A dog can be intelligent but not balanced, like us humans,, we can smart to build rocket ships but we are intimidated or insecure in our life. Balanced life is much better than an intelligent life. Dog Owners Must understand the basic psychology of their Dogs and see them as Dogs and not expect their Dogs to be humans and think like we do. Great. What are your qualifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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